User talk:Blue Square Thing/Archive 4

History of cricket to 1725

Hello. Could you please explain this edit summary as I am concerned that you think there may have been a copyvio? Thanks. Jack | ^{talk page} 22:10, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Sorry - I was working from a tablet at the time and quickly. It seemed really odd that the paragraph referenced something like "the other three current test playing countries" - referencing SA, Aus and NZ. Given that Zimbabwe are also test playing it seemed like it might have come from an old source - it just sort of read that way. And I was trying to work quite quickly - I also don't think I'd read the line which specifically referenced Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh which I know that when I did the edit I was querying in my head as well. My fault - it just read oddly and I was working quickly. Blue Square Thing (talk) 03:57, 2 February 2016 (UTC)„“

I see. No problem. I gave up trying to use a tablet to edit: couldn't get the hang of it at all!! Thanks for the clarification. Jack | ^{talk page} 08:50, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Your message on my talk page

You told me that my edits were not constructive and that they lack common-sense. I find this disrespectful and offensive. Everyone has a right to edit Wikipedia and I did so in good faith and constructively. A nickname is something someone teasingly calls someone else. Adam has been called Sir Adam and Bradam in numerous news articles. On the issue of whether or not he will still be called that in a month's time, well yes he will be as long as his batting average stays really high. Now, Australia have only one test after this one within the next month, and even if Adam scores two ducks, his average should remain above 85. So there's a good chance this nickname will stick in a month.

Anyway, I find the treatment of new Wikipedians by "established users" offensive. My edits were reverted numerous times, and it is a matter of debate between me and another user reverting (I also, of course, reverted his edits); you are not involved. Please keep it that way, unless you want to have a constructive debate on this matter *before* reverting my edits, in which case I'd be happy to do so. (Note that I was debating this matter with the other user in my edit summaries.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.248.68.27 (talk) 01:25, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

The reason the edits were unconstructive is that they'd already been reverted several times. You were already close to edit war territory and weren't engaging in any talk on the matter (which you are now by the way which is excellent). There's also a discussion on the relevant project talk page as well for whatvit's worth - which was where I became aware of the issue. That's the way it works - you don't "debate" things via edit summaries which was why I bothered to leave any message on your talk page at all.

Maybe the name will stick. If it does and he's being regularly called it then add it when that happens. But to respond by continually adding something that's quite possibly a flash in the pan isn't actually all that constructive. There are enough problems with nicknames anyway! Thanks for bothering to leave a comment here by the way. It is appreciated. Blue Square Thing (talk) 06:15, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply! 96.248.68.27 (talk) 00:16, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment on my talk page. I have added references now. Please let me know if there are further issues. 96.248.68.27 (talk) 22:23, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi, I forgot to thank you for reinstating my edit here: [1]. I appreciate it.

Lately, I've been feeling very unwelcome here, however, by a few users. I'm making edits based on factually correct statements (e.g., based on mass media), but people are repeatedly attacking me, and recently someone threatened to block me: [2] so they could put themselves in a position of power of me and silence me in the debate (or, so it seems). The "policies" people cite are terribly inconsistent and I really don't understand how it is unencylopaedic to add statements from the media, especially if they reflect mass opinion. (This is done all the time in Wikipedia, or at least I feel so whenever I read articles).

I'm a little worried that User:Moondyne will block me, although it's clearly unfair as I've done nothing wrong, and he just wants to silence me. Do you know what avenues I can take to prevent him from doing so? I don't want to accept his threats and live in fear, as I feel that's just giving in to his bullying. 96.248.68.27 (talk) 00:37, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi. All this stuff is tricky as heck. In general, higher profile articles (so, current Australian Test cricketers for example) will generally be more commonly watched. I guess that people will probably be more likely to revert stuff on them and try to keep a balance of some sort. It is difficult though - it's very easy to fall into recentism and so on where you get incredible detail about recent events (some football articles are hideous in that regard - especially where there's a follower of a team who constantly adds every training round bust up, every goal, every sub appearance and the like - Leeds articles a while back where dreadful as a result of this sort of thing). I try to think about articles as if they are being read in a few years time - is there a balance of stuff there without too much detail on specifics?

In that regard stuff like nicknames and, for example, the edit about Bailey being a "nice guy" is the sort of stuff I, personally, wouldn't add. As an example, I tend to keep an eye on Sam Billings. I'm not suggesting in any way that the article is "good", but I've tried to get some sort of balance on there - it would be very easy to have a huge amount of detail about his ODI debut for example (in fact, I think there was) or his PSL campaign (there almost certainly was - take a look at a few PSL articles some time...), but I'd rather see a general, encyclopaedic sort of article that will stand the test of time. It's difficult with someone like Voges, for example, which is why I reverted the removal of the record from the lead (it is already in the article body, albeit uncited there) - it's a clear, unambiguous fact that will not change any time soon. It's clearly notable and there are multiple reliable citations to support it (btw, avoid blogs and social media if you can with cites; indeed, try and avoid any opinion piece if you can). It clearly, in my mind beyond any doubt, belongs in the lead.

Unfortunately there's plenty of crap articles out there with stuff that really shouldn't be there in them. Take the Kagiso Rabada article. At least two of the supposed nicknames in the article are almost certainly stuff from online commentary lines rather than actual nicknames (I can probably accept KG but need to do a bit of looking on it). Neither citation provided for nicknames actually supports any of them. The domestic career section is also, by the way, one where you can see straight away that "facts" have been added a paragraph at a time. At some point, probably when he's playing for Kent, I'll tweak that around a bit and try and make it more general. And don't get me started on the lists of damned "awards" - for some reason people in the cricket project love their lists and treasure them even when they're unusable or unmaintainable. I was vaguely surprised to see, for example, that we even had List of cricket batting averages - and then I remembered that it's a WP:Cricket article so obviously we do - and the obvious failure to name the article correctly doesn't surprise me either (it needs Test in there fwiw). It's the sort of article I avoid.

I'd suggest:

• try and avoid too much recentism - current stuff is always tricky;
• try and avoid anything too much that could be considered opinion and punditry - I understand where you're going with the Voges stuff for example, but it's on the edge of what we'd want certainly, and probably a bit over it;
• stick to clear, unambiguous facts and summarise rather than over-detail wherever possible;
• cite from newspapers, preferably multiple times, but try and avoid op-ed stuff;
• don't worry about there being other articles which are rubbish or include certain things on them (see Rabada above);
• get a log in rather than using an IP address - it will help, although you need to be clear that you are the ip as well, certainly to begin with - and given the "history" you have I thin that would be incredibly important;
• remember that there are some bloody awful cricket articles out there and some really dodgy (imo) decisions have been made about some of them. Change what you can;
• if you're reverted then, unless it's clearly wrong, talk about it first - I'd suggest the article talk page first fwiw, leaving a note on the user page if necessary. It doesn't always get you there quickly - trust me, been there, done that...

Don't worry about stuff too much, do what you can and enjoy the cricket. Obviously :-) Blue Square Thing (talk) 13:32, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your comments! I consider them very helpful and they are much appreciated. I am very grateful for your time too and I will try to follow your advice as best as I can. I hope you are enjoying the World T20 (if you are following that). 96.248.68.27 (talk) 01:56, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Kent County Cricket Club seasons

Hello, and thanks for the fixes/improvements that you have contributed to the Kent County Cricket Club in 2015 that I created last year. I put a lot of work into this page (and enjoyed doing so!) and agree with all of your edits. I am currently creating a page for the 2016 season, using the updated 2015 code as a template so this is really very helpful. I would be delighted if you could take a look at the new page once it is published. Bs1jac (talk) 11:48, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Will do - let me know when it goes up. I favour more of a prose style btw, so be aware of that :-) Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:37, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Looks like it's coming along. Thanks for showing me how to use the match boxes btw - never done that before... Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:46, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

I really appreciate your input. Thanks for fixing a few things I had not yet got right, and for the improvements that enhance the layout. So much easier when somebody else is adding sensible insights. Bs1jac (talk) 12:52, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

They won't always be sensible... I appreciate you changing the reference format btw - I dislike cite ref for a variety of reasons. Still wet at Canterbury as far as I can tell - I had a vague idea of going yesterday but pulled out and missed DBD's double... Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:58, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

I only used cite ref as that is what I had previously copied from elsewhere. Am now more aware of the reasons against these (thanks!), and the alternatives, so that helps with other pages I create (mainly relatively fringe cricket pieces). At least you didn't try going to Worcester this week! Bs1jac (talk) 12:56, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Blythe

I see you have started working on Blythe. I began working on this some time ago, but never had time to finish. I took it up to around 1909, but ran out of steam. Realistically, I'm unlikely to work on this any time soon as I rarely seem to have the time or inclination to do much on WP these days. So, feel free to steal anything I did. The draft is here if you want any of it. Sarastro1 (talk) 17:18, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up (and, e2a, there's some really, really good stuff there - although what's the Scoble source?). I don't know when I'll get a chance to have a go at the article properly - it's one that I probably need to look for printed sources for as well - it strikes me as one which should be able to, eventually, be worked up to something really decent. I'll see how I go - I have a couple of others from the 1906 Kent team to do first who will be a lot simpler. Then Blythe and Woolley... Blue Square Thing (talk) 20:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

The book is Colin Blythe: Lament for a Legend by Christopher Scoble. Sarastro1 (talk) 15:38, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll see if I can find it next time I'm at Canterbury! Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Cricket talk page

Hello, do you mind if I merge the two discussions taking place so that everything is under one heading? It will mean moving your input to the topic below. Thanks. Jack | ^{talk page} 11:59, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

No problem - I think I more or less agreed with you in terms of the page needing to be rationalised after rewrite. Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:09, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Okay, thanks again, BST. I'll move your input to the main topic. Btw, I have got the Colin Blythe biography (see above) so if you don't manage to get a copy of your own, feel free to ask me if you think I can help with references. All the best. Jack | ^{talk page} 13:44, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

IPL 2016

Hi Blue Square Thing... I wanted a bit of help from you about this 'Venues' issue... Can you please explain to me what actually the issue is and what the problems are with either formats? I just wanted to learn about it in detail from you... Can you please help? Cricket246 (talk) 07:41, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

If you try narrowing your browser window it will show the same problem - essentially everything wraps around and looks odd. It also happens if tables are very, very wide - so, for example, on List of Leicestershire County Cricket Club grounds the table is too wide for my monitor right now, and that's set at 1280 pixels wide which is fairly standard. On a tablet it screws everything else up entirely as well. Compare to List of Kent County Cricket Club grounds which renders perfectly well on anything. I'll maybe try to get some screenshots up on the web over the next few days to illustrate the problem. Blue Square Thing (talk) 11:38, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Ok I can understand that... Can you tell me 1 thing? Should I stick with the older format or go for the new suggested format... Please make me understand and tell me what to do... Cricket246 (talk) 11:58, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

I don't know! I find both a little tricky to read myself. I'd quite like to see a bit more prose about the venues. I think that might allow us to float a map out to the right of the prose section - if we can get 3 paragraphs or so of prose, which shouldn't be that difficult, then that is worthwhile - a smaller map floated to the right. Then I think I'd try a regular table rather than the sort of infographic that we currently have. But that's me - I like simple, easy to use stuff and prose. Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:56, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Actually I'm totally confused... I can't really understand what exactly is supposed to be done... I think you can do this job the best... U are one of the most trustworthy and experienced editors there... So it's best if you look after this because several people are having different views... I think u are the one who can help us settle this issue... Cheers... Cricket246 (talk) 17:33, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

When I get a chance I'll mock something up in a sandbox. Until the weekend I'm rushed off my feet at work though! Blue Square Thing (talk) 18:22, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your help at WT:CRICKET

I literally cannot hit a cow's arse with a cricket bat as the expression goes because without my glasses on I am well Mr Magoo basically. (I do wear contact lenses sometimes but they spoil my beautiful looks.) As I imagine you got, I do kinda understand the rules of cricket a bit (there are eighteen bowling balls in an oeuvre, right?) but this one was a bit of a googly so we tidied that one up nicely between us, thank you. Some are far more in an esoteric orbit than this one, believe me. Si Trew (talk) 22:31, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Cricket edits

The official county championship started in 1890 but previous to this there was an unofficial county championship where a winner was declared by the appropriate parties at the time. This started in 1827, became better organised in 1864 and eventually became official in 1890. In regard to adding the template boxes I believe that it is beneficial to add them to show the continuity of the county championship by linking it to the cricket seasons from 1827. Both Wisden (the cricket bible) and other publishers such as Hamlyn all list unofficial county champions (pre 1890) and wikipedia has no links as to what happened before the 1890 county championship. Readers will believe that because it is listed as the first official championship that nothing previously existed. Feel free to suggest alternative option but I can not think of a better way at present.

Perhaps a link to the County Championship article, rather than a template that has things on it other than the date the article refers to. I would agree that the mess which are yearly cricket seasons and cc articles needs sorting out, but what you're doing is not the right way to do it. Blue Square Thing (talk) 18:57, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello, BST. Can we please take this to the RM talk page (as you originally requested) so that we are not going here, there and everywhere? I'm copying the above to the discussion on that page. Jack | ^{talk page} 19:25, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Beccles Airport/DMY

Okay - don't see the problem. Looked at your userpage and it seemed to back me up in that there should be uniformity and that the will of the first editor should be adhered to. It states use DMY format at the top of the article, so I converted them all to DMY. Yes I made a mistake on the highlighted one (7 January 2016 to 17 January 2016) but I do not see how having **one** date format (your words) is a problem - in fact MOS encourages it.

Fair point in pointing out the error in the transliteration of the dates and I will not revert anything, but I do not see the problem. Best wishes. The joy of all things (talk) 11:40, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

The issue is that references can be in one format and the text in another. DMY is appropriate for the text - because Ellough's in the UK. DMY or UTC is appropriate for the references. I prefer to reference in UTC as it takes out any ambiguity at all and there is no question about whether a publication, for example, is American based or UK based or based somewhere else or simply globally available.

I tend to get a bit hassly about it simply because there are bots employed to gratuitously change everything but, in actual fact, it's first style used properly which should be the one used for refs fromt hat point onward. But anyway, thanks for leaving the note; I appreciate that. Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:43, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Cricket

Hi. I did not read your message you left on my page until after I reverted your message, which is why I did not give you a reason, although I did give a reason in the edit description. I have since reverted your edit again, but have replied to your message on the talk page. Hopefully we can sort this out, but in the meantime to avoid an edit war it is probably better to leave the page as it is until we reach a consensus. Englandcricketteam (talk) 17:59, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

I've replied to this on the article talk page. Blue Square Thing (talk) 20:29, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Template:English cricket seasons

Hi, Blue. Writing to let you know I like this template. I'm guessing that adding it to 300 articles is a tedious job? I have a tedious process monitoring job to do right now so will help out some. It will pass the time, believe me. Today's target? Maybe get you to end of 18th century? Regards, Naz | talk | contribs 12:32, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

You're a star - thanks! :-) Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:33, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

No, just a little helper. Made it all the way to 1850 but concentration had gone. Needing to work again now, the damn process has broken! Regards, Naz | talk | contribs 13:13, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

I **think** I've filled in the gap between 1960 and 2005ish. So that's probably all of them :-)

Many thanks - much appreciated. Blue Square Thing (talk) 16

01, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Good teamwork. Thank you too. Regards, Naz | talk | contribs 18:08, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

1947 English cricket season

Hi, Blue. Going through all those season articles yesterday, for me the standout is this one and it was only a start-class assessed. I have used B-class assessment criteria from the project and I think it is B-class. Do you think I should raise it at good article review process? I have just added some images, the one thing it lacking before. Main writer is no longer active. Will be out most of today. Regards, Naz | talk | contribs 09:13, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

To be honest I've never really gotten involved in rating articles - but you're right that it's so much better than almost everything else (and doubly so in my opinion as it has prose rather than just bloody tables...). Rather bizarrely there's no 1947 County Championship article - there's a case for some of the stuff being split off to that as there's an awful lot on the individual County sides. The trobalt with including all the information about the individual Counties is that I want more referencing for some of it - if I look at the Kent section (my County) for example, I want an obit at least for Harding, it needs refs for the "star" element of Evans and Wright and more on Martin as well. Then, further down, there's stuff like the "Significant omissions" part of the Cricketers of the Year section that would seem, to me, to have elements of POV in. It's a *bit* one source as well perhaps - but I'm not sure to what extent that stops it at GA. If you think it's worthwhile go for it - or perhaps send it to the project for other opinions.

The single biggest strength of the article, imo, is the lack of tables though. That makes it a model in many ways. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:53, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, Blue. Oh, I absolutely, absolutely agree with you about statistical tables. All the tables in the article now were put there in 2007 and see here what the article looked like then, entirely tables bar a single sentence in the intro. I have been seeking to improve coverage of Bangladeshi cricket and tables are the bane of my life. A well-developed article has way too many of them and a stub has them nothing but.

You would do very well as a reviewer, you have hit two nails right on the head. There is definitely some POV in the Wisden CY section. A a few sentences should be taken out. And, you right again, I think more referencing in the counties because it looks in every case that a single source covers whole paragraph. Not sure if GA would want more sources but FA would, trouble being that only Wisden and Playfair do a decent season review. Looked in a different book and all it says of 1947 is Compton, Edrich and glorious weather!!

I will go for GA. It will be interesting. I have the Playfair annual (the first one) and my friend has the Wisden so we can answer questions. Thank you again, Blue. Regards, Naz | talk | contribs 17:00, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

I'll add it to my watch list and keep an eye on it. I'm not sure I have anything handy to add to it right now, but there may be something I can dig out. Blue Square Thing (talk) 17:23, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2016 Bangladesh Premier League

Hi, Blue. This I think is being of interest to you. Thank you, Blue. Regards, Naz | talk | contribs 20:16, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 17

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Tom Latham (cricketer), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Daily Record. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 09:09, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Fred Huish and dates

Hello Blue Square Thing,

As suggested by you, I will change it to August 2011. Thank you for your inputs.

Cheers,

Vikram Maingi (talk) 02:42, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Good stuff

		The PSL Barnstar
		Have not really handed out one of these PSL barnstars before, but you could take this first one. Your username crops up on the watchlist every now and then, so thanks for looking over some of these pages and trying to restore some order when it seems frustrating. I do think, in the long term, most of the PSL articles ought to be protected anyway due to the high WP:OR added by IPs. Mar4d (talk) 19:32, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Why, thanks - actually I appreciate that. I'm currently trying to do some form of clean up on the BPL as well if you want to take a look :-) Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:34, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Autopatrolled

Hi Blue Square Thing, I just wanted to let you know that I have added the "autopatrolled" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the patroller right, see Wikipedia:Autopatrolled. Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 15:41, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

bpl2016

I saw in the news about the postponed matches of bpl.so my info is correct. Rayat 17:41, 5 November 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rayatbiz (talk • contribs)

Look at the references. The first two matches might well be replayed. Two teams have agreed to do so but, as far as the written sources are concerned, the two teams from the first match haven't yet agreed that - and, apparently, without their agreement the second match can't be replayed. Take a look at the CricInfo source. There may be more up to date information of course, but I'd suggest we hang in and wait until the morning and see what the BPL has decided - it's not as if they haven't been known to change their minds before about stuff... Blue Square Thing (talk) 17:56, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes but the BCB decided that the tournament will RESTART and the previous points won't be counted. Rayat 01:26, 6 November 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rayatbiz (talk • contribs)

Well, possibly. The reports I read yesterday in the Daily Star, for example, were still saying that it depended on Comilla agreeing this. They might have done that by now - they had to talk to their sponsors or something. We need to try to keep things accurate - not that I'll be editing that article again now until after the tournament finishes. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:09, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/History of Norwich City F.C.

Your views (and edits) welcomed. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 16:20, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Didn't realise this was up for TFA. I may try and have a look at some point - I think my son has a few of the history books around somewhere and is enough of a stats geek to be interested Blue Square Thing (talk) 16:30, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Pakistan Super League

Hi Blue Square Thing! You have reverted my edits on Karachi Kings and Islamabad United, saying "No need for that level of detail." But why, why the theme song is not needed? There's an article for official anthem for Pakistan Super League, i.e. Ab Khel Ke Dikha. Then why there Is no need of PSL's other songs' info? Also, I have added the link of Islamabad United's theme song to other articles too, which you have made un-avalaible. Please reply, thanks! M.Billoo2000 (talk) 22:45, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

I don't think, given the balance of the article, that there's a need for a whole section of detail about a theme song. If it's a notable song then it can have it's own article, otherwise I don't think it needs to have more than a passing mention.- they are, after all, articles about cricket teams. Blue Square Thing (talk) 23:16, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@Blue Square Thing: As the song Chakka Choka was sung by Ali Zafar for Islamabad United, I updated this song in his discography, and also on "Ab Khel Ke Dikha" song article, because it has also been sung by him. I was also going to add theme song infobox next day (today) on Lahore Qalandars, Quetta Gladiators and Peshawar Zalmi, but you reverted so I didn't add on others. I think these should be added. Also, is there any other way to add team slogan on infobox, as you have reverted them from nick name? Thanks! M.Billoo2000 (talk) 15:54, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Not as far as I know in terms of the slogan. You could try and find the documentation for the infobox and see if that says anything. I wouldn't mind adding the slogans - assuming they make sense in themselves (and you are probably in a better position than me to tell that!)

If the song is notable then I think it either goes on the artists page or needs a page of it's own - the cricket franchise article really does need to focus on the franchise rather than have multiple infoboxes - really the implication of H:IB is that there should only be the one infobox on each page really. The theme song isn't really that crucial to the franchise story in my view - unless you can show me that it's a **huge** thing. And the launch of them is really ancient history now in many ways.

Unless you can think of another way to do this? Blue Square Thing (talk) 16:25, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi Blue Square Thing! Starting new conversation under same topic. You recently reverted my edit on 2016 Pakistan Super League. I didn't understand the reason of reverting. I said that the 2nd tournament will have new anthem, so the previous anthem was only for 1st tournament. Similar edits I have made on 2017 Pakistan Super League and in "Ab Khel Ke Dikha". Please re-add that line, because that song was only of 1st tournament, not of whole league. Thanks! M. Billoo 18:45, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi! Please also see this. Thanks! M. Billoo 15:45, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Ok, so if the anthems are only going to be used for one tournament - as would seem likely - then I would imagine that the best approach will be not talk about them at all on the article about the PSL. Instead they belong on the articles about the individual tournaments I would imagine. Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:58, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

@Blue Square Thing: Thanks! M. Billoo 23:21, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi! How are you? Want to talk about anthems again. Today, the new anthem "Dhan Dhana Dhan Hoga Re" of the team Karachi Kings has been released for PSL season II, 2017. I want to ask if it is Ok to mention the name of anthem in Karachi Kings article, or it should be mentioned in 'Karachi Kings in 2017' (to be created) article? Also, team's anthem for PSL season I "Dilon Ke Hum Hain Badshah", where should it be mentioned now? Similarly it will be done on anthems of 'Islamabad United', 'Lahore Qalandars', 'Quetta Gladiators' and 'Peshawar Zalmi'. Keeping in view that earlier it was done on league's anthems for 2016 and 2017 respectively. Sorry for my poor English, hope for your kind reply, Thanks! M. Billoo 15:53, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

@M.Billoo2000: Hi. Good points to bring up. Are they really going to have a new anthem each season? If that's the case then it would be best, I think, to have stuff on the individual season pages wouldn't it? Perhaps the same needs to happen to sponsors as well? Although that seems very difficult to get references for? Blue Square Thing (talk) 16:13, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

References for new song are official facebook page of teams.

• Kings (launch event)
• United (teaser)
• Zalmi (video-1), Zalmi (video-2) (2017)
• Qalandars (announcement)
• no info about Gladiators.

This means that they have new songs for this year. Thanks for appreciating! It's hard to say about sponsers, I'll think on it soon :) M. Billoo 19:51, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Not convinced about Facebook pages as a reliable source to be honest - certainly not independent of the subject. Is there nothing in the press at all? Blue Square Thing (talk) 20:20, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

I've searched only,

• Kings
• Zalmi (2)

M. Billoo 06:10, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi! Can you please check the page: List of anthems about Pakistan Super League. Thanks! :) M. Billoo 10:45, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

---

Hi! I have left a message here, hope for your kind reply. Thanks! M. Billoo 20:41, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

---

Hi! I would like to know what you think on creation of these new pages right now, it would be great if you agree:

• Islamabad United in 2018
• Karachi Kings in 2018
• Lahore Qalandars in 2018
• Multan Sultans in 2018
• Peshawar Zalmi in 2018
• Quetta Gladiators in 2018

But what happened last time for 2017 team pages, why they were redirected in Oct 2016 by a someone? Do you remember this, when I removed redirect in Feb 2017 after when you asked for? That is the only reason which confuses me if 2018 team pages are stable right now or not. If they are, then I would too appreciate creating them. Hope for your kind reply, Thanks! M. Billoo 18:53, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

• Hi. I'd say February would be the best time to create these. Certainly not yet - no one has much of a clue who's going to be playing with whom yet. I've already done a couple of reverts on people assuming the 2018 season had started - some probably got through - I'm afraid I've taken many PSL pages off my watchlist as I couldn't stand the state they got in. Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:02, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your response! Agreed with you. Actually, I am thinking the same. I tried for a discussion with a (you know whom) user too on this matter, but you know what he replies. M. Billoo 01:28, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

@M.Billoo2000: you redirect them, I'll back you up Blue Square Thing (talk) 05:07, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! Though I am scared a little too, the user recently made an Rfc for my "trolling" behaviour, where someone commented too, but said that this topic is not for Rfc. M. Billoo 05:13, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Kent County Cricket Club in 2017

Thanks so much for building on the 2017 season page that I created yesterday. Saves me a lot of work with the fixtures and reference hunting. I thought Jackson had gone, but hadn't seen any announcement; no need for me to look for that now! Looking forward to the 50-over tournament in Antigua – should be interesting. Bs1jac (talk) 12:20, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

I was just wondering yesterday whether to message you to ask if you were going to create it! So, great minds... I think I have all the fixtures correct, but they look about right so tweaks can take place as required. There was never an announcement about Jackson - an IP, I think one used regularly to update good stuff and quite possibly from the Old Dover Road area, updated some of the articles to remove him and his profile if off of the club site, so I guess the assumption is that he's gone and that the gloves are Rouse's for most of the season. Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:37, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Had been meaning to get round to it for a while. Would like to go back and do a few seasons from the early 2000s but haven't had the time. Might try a slightly less detailed format as a starting point, but it's tricky getting the full squads. I suppose it's easy enough just to list players that appear in the statistics though.Bs1jac (talk) 13:26, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

I keep on meaning to finish off 1913 and that'll give us the four CC winning seasons before WWI done. I got hol dof a copy of the book on that season though so there's an absolute tonne of source material for it! But at least it's just First Class stuff to worry about - that's half the problem with the more up to date stuff. To be honest, if it needs to be just a table with names and number of apps in each competition it wouldn't be the end of the world.

For the pre war stuff I tend to use a copy and paste routine from CA and then use all sorts of concatenation malarkey to get a text string out off Excel to save some work. Mind you, it's a pain to get right in the first instance. Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:56, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Oh, while I think of it, 2007 would be a good one to do once you're done with 2011 perhaps? T20 win that year so it appears in the navbox at the bottom of the pages as a red link. Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:59, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Good idea. I have started on 2011 in my sandbox (squad, infobox, intro). It's the matches that takes the time though. When I am done with that I might jump back to 2007 if it isn't already done. PS: Working on the 2011 season is depressing. It really wasn't a good one! Bs1jac (talk) 13:05, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Karachi Kings—Lahore Qalandars rivalry

The rivalry between these two sides is heating up and it is intense back in Pakistan people there love to watch rivalry between two sides.there is always so much talking going on when these two sides play each other.I think that the rivalry is growing up slowly.So plz don't delete it. Floka (User talk:The Floka) 13:37, 18 February 2017 (PST).

So show, using proper sources rather than a bunch of tweets, that a rivalry, a *proper* rivalry, actually exists. I need to know that the rivalry is actually notable in itself beyond what might be expected between two teams in a tiny league and where the teams have played each other three times. You need to show more than that to do so.

For example, look at List of sports rivalries in the United Kingdom. I'll pick what I consider a bad example from that list - the A49 derby. I'd say this is marginal as an article and I'd like to see more sourcing on it and more evidence of an actual rivalry. But it has a key source - source number 2 from the Daily Telegraph (which is a proper newspaper and a good quality source) which just about rescues the viability of the article. That's what you need - someone to tell us that it's a true rivalry, that there is something that's gone on that makes it more than two matches a year played between teams which have been made up so recently that it makes a mockery of the idea of a rivalry.

In short - get me some press sources which actually describe a rivalry beyond a bunch of social media comments. Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:56, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Sources which i have attached are proper. Floka (User talk:The Floka) 14:09, 18 February 2017 (PST).

There is only one which suggests any kind of rivalry rather than the fixture taking place in itself. That's a "viral" news platform rather than a reliable source in Wikipedia terms. I, honestly, can't find anything beyond people from two cities inculcating each other on social media. Perhaps if the fixture is ever played in Pakistan we'll find out if it's actually a rivalry. Until then, and unless you or someone else can show otherwise, I'd suggest now. It's at AfD now - note on your talk page about that and at the relevant wiki projects. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:27, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

See: (1) Karachi, Lahore renew rivalry in PSL - Express Tribune (2) Karachi-Lahore contest to finish bottom already PSL’s fiercest rivalry - Pakistan Today and (3) "reemergence of the age old rivalry between Karachi and Lahore" - Business Recorder - mfarazbaig —Preceding undated comment added 22:12, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm not convinced yet - the first source is simply a match - there's no real rivalry per se. The second source seems to be trying to tell people it's a rivalry but there's no evidence that there's actually something that's worth talking about in itself - no more than between any of the other teams. The third source, again, leaves me unconvinced as of yet. I get that there's a rivalry of sorts between the cities. I understand that. But, and I think this is perhaps partly due to the league being played in the UAE largely, I really don't see a rivalry in the sporting rivalry sense of the term that's anything other than an attempt to manufacture something for a publicity pov. Blue Square Thing (talk) 22:16, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

I should add, of course, that the second and third certainly are better sources. But I just don't see the same sort of notability. Blue Square Thing (talk) 22:17, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

2017 Pakistan Super League players draft

There is a problem going on in editing Retained players I'm facing problem to fix it too so plz fix it i thing u will do it easily because u r the best.Floka (User talk:The Floka) 11:25, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

To be honest with you I was going to wait until the tournament has finished and then have a look nd see what can be fixed. There are so many edits whist it's going on that it was much easier last year to wait until all the fuss has died down. Blue Square Thing (talk) 07:54, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi! Ok as u wish The Floka (User talk:The Floka) 18:13, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

2017 PSL Final

Hi!since then i can't so will u plz put a picture of PSL final on PSL page just like in Islamabad united's page...It will be great The Floka (User talk:The Floka) 11:50, 07 March 2017 (UTC)

PSL ITN

I have placed a PSL final candidature for ITN. Someone has commented, "Target article still needs tenses and grammar sorting out." Can you help with it to clear the way? Thanks. See:[3] - mfarazbaig —Preceding undated comment added 21:55, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

I may be able to but the timeframe may be too tight to be honest. I was planning to go through all the articles on the PSL again once the editing had calmed down a bit - there's too many edits during the season to make it worth my while generally. Given that there is a need to do this one quicker I may see if I can give it a go tomorrow. Blue Square Thing (talk) 21:58, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Francis Marsham

You're right. ESPN has him in this scorecard but in his career record they say he played only one match and that was for MCC. Well spotted. Jack | ^{talk page} 11:35, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Just stuck it on the article in an edit summary as well - CA has two matches (I pressed Esc quickly...). He's one I've been watching - I'll expand it fully at some point as he had a rather interesting military career... Blue Square Thing (talk) 11:37, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

MOS:DATERANGE

Hello. I've done a bit of research into date range preferences and discovered this guideline. In the hatnote, it states: "A change from a preference for two digits, to a preference for four digits, on the right side of year–year ranges was implemented in July 2016 per this RFC".

This means I was unwittingly going against process when I changed those date ranges. They've all been reverted but there are still many entries in most lists which use ccyy–yy format. I don't think any great effort should be made to amend those but I'll alter any I spot as and when. Thanks for pointing this out. All the best and I hope Kent can improve this season. I support Yorkshire and we could be facing a few problems, but we shall see.... Jack | ^{talk page} 13:08, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

I didn't realise there was an actual policy saying that - good spot. I agree that it's not worth overly any effort to convert stuff that's not that way for now. I'll comment on the Hants stuff later on your talk btw - I'm getting caught up in aristocratic genealogy just now... We'll see with the cricket - close last season you know, other than for a ridiculous decision to bat first at Chelmsford on a pitch with enough green on to please Kermit. Blue Square Thing (talk) 13:12, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Lists of Hampshire County Cricket Club players

Just looking at the structure of the Hampshire player listings, this one is a sort of contents page which doesn't list players itself. I think you have a good point about the statistical nature of those lists as they are borderline NOTSTATS. I don't think they breach NOTSTATS because the information is meaningful and a very helpful key has been provided. I think it would be a good idea to use the contents page to create a standard alphabetic list in addition to the statistical ones. I agree with you that all top-class players (FC, LA, T20) should be listed together; this is something I've been correcting in other lists. What do you think? Jack | ^{talk page} 12:25, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Balnakeil

Dude, why did you revert that map ref. How is a map ref OR. This map ref points to an ordnance survey map location, so how is it OR? I have reverted your revert. scope_creep (talk) 19:59, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

There's absolutely no need to point people to a map ref for something as simple as where a location is. That requires you to have dug out the source, looked at the map and sorted out which side of the county boundary, for example, it is. There are much easier ways to do this - and, quite frankly, I'd argue that we don't even need to be sourcing that most of the time. We already have the coords up at the top right anyway - you're simply adding a link to a particular map provider rather than allowing users to choose their own.

Your edits also totally ignored WP:CITEVAR and WP:DATEVAR. I'll revert again until you've read those and understand them properly. Blue Square Thing (talk) 20:03, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Dude you do know that I created this article don't you, and all the ones in series, which are included in List of places in Highland. The reasons the dates are like that are when I originally created the article I couldn't understand how to format the dates. As regards the above comment, all the information regarding which county they are located in etc, was done years ago, by me. Most of the people who want to choose their own map, can still choose their own map, but there is only one map provider which offers ordnance survey and that is Bing maps. So they are all getting a map reference, which is now the standard WP way of adding a ref to settlements. A lot of these small settlements within List of places in Highland, don't have a reference. scope_creep (talk) 20:11, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Blue_Square_Thing, I fix the dates but it will take some time. There are about 300 odd settlement article in the list. scope_creep (talk) 20:36, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry it is this: List of places in Highland (council area) is the correct list. scope_creep (talk) 20:44, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I know you created the article. In 2009, your last edits to the page. As a totally unreferenced, MOS lacking stub. I added the references that were there. All of them. In 2013. in a way that at least meets some of the suggestions at WP:UKCITIES, the style guide that relates to the article. That guidance says, in particular, that:

Statements that are likely to be challenged, quotations and statistics need inline citations. (GA criteria)

No one is going to challenge where Balnakiel is. If you're going to reference it then use the OS Landranger map as a reference - that's a permanent one that's not going to disappear.

You might also like to consider the examples of small settlement articles such as Chew Stoke and Wormshill. Both are featured articles and don't have the location sourced because they don't need to have it sourced. Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:39, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

cricketers

Hi. I noticed your edits and thoughts about cricket articles. You cited that you do not accept twenty20 internationals. But for a international cricketer you have to add them wothout considering your personal thoughts. It is well accepted in all wikipedians and it is a clear note that it is an important part of an article. So dont erase international stats. Your acceptance is not important. You can add and edit according to other articles. What is your point that all other cricketer articles are same coding but one is beyond it? So just be polite and not improve your personal thoughts. Cheers.. GihanJ 7.22 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Why don't you take this to the cricket project and ask there? I suspect that would be the best thing to do. Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:08, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Twenty20 tables

Hi. Do you have any idea why the text style="font-weight:bold" is appearing above the Twenty20 table on Kent County Cricket Club in 2017 and Hampshire County Cricket Club in 2017, instead of actually making the relevant team name display in bold? I went in to Template:2017 NatWest t20 Blast South Division in an attempt to fix, but I couldn't see where the problem was! Bs1jac (talk) 10:37, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

No! I've tried a couple of things but templates seem to take ages to work through so it might not be possible to see any benefits until later in the day. V odd. If necessary I'll simply use the code from the 50 over one and re-do the template entirely. Blue Square Thing (talk) 11:59, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Copying the code from the Royal London template seems to have worked. No idea why it was misbehaving though - must be a tiny syntax thing somewhere or other I guess. Blue Square Thing (talk) 20:16, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Well done! I stared at the code for ages and couldn't see how it was different to last year. And yes templates changes don't always show up on pages for a while (or until another edit is made to the page) so it's hard to test. Bs1jac (talk) 10:09, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

RE: Ormiston Venture Academy

Thank you for pointing me in the correct direction with some of the things you did. However, as an actual student at the Academy I know what needs to be updated such as the fact that Nicole is no longer Executive principal there. etc etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cameronhxdds (talk • contribs) 19:01, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

For sure correcting the name of the head is fine. But don't add a tonne of other teachers to the infobox please. Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:05, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Kagiso Rabada

I noticed that you always removed the international awards category and international fifer columns as your sole wish. But what is your point. Why are you deleting them just make very rough paragraphs. They are really importatnt for an international player to judge his value in the team and his significance to the team. So I strongly recommend that DO NOT remove those columns. Your edits on that is USELESS and POINTLESS. Gihan Jayaweera (talk) 8:10, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

They aren't very rough paragraphs, they are prose. That's what we do. Lists without prose need to go. You don't appear to write any prose in articles - simply to add lists and statistics. That's not actually what this needs to be about - I'll be absolutely honest with you, I view your edits as utterly destructive and totally useless. You're actually destroying content to make way for your lists because you write can't write prose or can't be bothered to. We'll correct your written English - but actually grow up and try and write prose rather than simply putting stupid lists everywhere.

Direct enough? Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:44, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

You can write any prose as your wish. But one thing, last Test, ODI or T20I is only the last international match he played up to present day. SO you can't just say that he is active player. Yes he is an active player. But for this moment, that match is his last Test, ODI or T20I. So, when updating, you should include it.

Another thing, listing five-wicket hauls, his man of the match performances are IMPORTANT. Because he is an international player and he has an impact on his side. For his side in international arena, he has produced many notable works. Just go through Cricinfo and you will see that number of five-wicket hauls are clearly described. Listing them is not USELESS. You can correct any improper English sentences, but NOT important stats. That is USELESS. Gihan Jayaweera (talk) 8:10, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Tell you what, how often are player pages updated? Frequently? Guess what - most aren't. Some are years out of date and lots only get the stats updated not the last match. That's why it's a really stupid thing to include. I'll put a bet on with you - in 6 months time it'll be out of date. Just use common sense and leave it until he's retired. Honestly, think before you act. Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:59, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Oh, can we all please just agree to get rid of these stupid man of the match award lists. They're doing my head in. Harrias ^talk 19:54, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

@Harrias: oh please, yes! I've tagged a few articles as needing condensing (too many subheads...) so that might be one way to go, but frankly there are just too many of them. One other way might be to actually agree to some kind of article style guide which precludes them. Fwiw I plan on replacing the articles that I have an interest in with prose summaries of all this sort of bs. I'll start with the retired ones... Blue Square Thing (talk) 20:07, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Take it to a discussion, then

FAQ rules are that anyone can alter on basis of new findings or to correct mistakes, misconception, etc. Jack | ^{talk page}

To reflect discussions on the talk page, yes. I think you'd better cite the discussions you're reflecting. Talk about IDON'TLIKEIT. Blue Square Thing (talk) 05:50, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

(ec) The FAQ was wrong and I, as an experienced editor, have corrected it. There has been no discussion about the FAQ, no consensus and the main author is someone with limited site experience. The main reason for correcting it is, however, the fact that certain people are misusing it by claiming that it supersedes the guideline it is intended to explain. Q1 answer was completely insufficient, saying nothing about the need for multiple published secondary sources and leaving the reader with a woolly alternative that was open to interpretation. Q2 contradicted both WP:N and WP:NSPORTS, leaving the reader with a confusing non-answer. If you want to write a more accurate version then feel free to do so but make sure that what you say is accurate in its presentation of statements in the actual guidelines.

If you think you can get away with citing an incorrect, misleading FAQ at AfD to support your version of notability, think again. Jack | ^{talk page} 05:56, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

For the record, the discussion I started on the relevant page seems to have agreed that you over-reached your hand more than a little. As for not using the FAQ, well, I think you're utterly wrong on that, and I'm not sure you understand what the FAQ actually shows. But never mind - this is essentially for the record. Blue Square Thing (talk) 21:47, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Please talk instead of just reverting

Please see Talk:Peshawar Zalmi in 2018 and discuss instead of just reverting my edits. Thanks. So said The Great Wiki Lord. (talk) 21:42, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

I was about to add something to your talk page myself but had other things to deal with first. As I've said on the template talk page, you're quite clearly in breach of all sorts of protocols here - essentially you're looking into the future. Look, for example, at what's happened with the South African T20 franchise league. Good job no-one created articles on this seasons yet is it? Blue Square Thing (talk) 21:45, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Article leads

I think the time wasted on the county stuff has drawn my eye to a bigger problem, which might actually get me back into significant WP contributions again. Thanks for the tweaks to Erith's lead, and I agree with your edit summary that the non-contentious bits of that lead look poor.

While looking around at other articles I found plenty of poor quality lead sentences. Birmingham in particular jumped out at me. Just about every other fact in the lead is more important than a minor river most people haven't heard of...--Nilfanion (talk) 23:01, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

The trouble is often that people add things to leads which don't actually summarise the article. In the Brming ham case I'd say "which was founded along the River Rea" or something similar perhaps? Blue Square Thing (talk) 06:24, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

I agree, and that's a perennial issue. Another perennial issue is people with agendas to push put their information in the lead instead of where it belongs in the body text. In the case of Birmingham, I'd pick some other fact for the first sentence (perhaps its claim to be England's 2nd city).--Nilfanion (talk) 15:47, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Sam Billings PSL

Yes he is playing for Islamabad United. He just agreed, check out his twitter: https://twitter.com/sambillings/status/929686374348967937 Anzan7 (talk) 18:16, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks - obviously I hadn't seen that. Much appreciate the heads up. Blue Square Thing (talk) 18:38, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

William Hutchings

I was just researching which Grove Park was meant, and came to the same conclusion (evidence), but you beat me to it. Mjroots (talk) 20:02, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Ah - I got it by remembering that I'd also edited one of his brother's biogs who had happened to serve at the same place and that I'd gotten it right when I did his! Blue Square Thing (talk) 20:04, 21 November 2017 (UTC)