User talk:Charles Matthews/Archive 39

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April 2014

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Your "remark" on my talkpage

So, are you going to do anything concerning the statement that "the problem could "easily" be fixed by the creation of redirects on Wikisource"? I don't think I've ever edited on WS; I know little about it. Perhaps you are more embedded there. Tony (talk) 05:57, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

As a matter on the English Wikisource, redirections and page moves for the DNB are certainly discussed. I am not a bot operator: I would not undertake such work myself. My point was of course otherwise, and the detriment is to Wikipedia content when references are broken. Charles Matthews (talk) 06:03, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

You needed to express it in a less confrontational way. Tony (talk) 06:05, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Come now. I am quite precise in my use of English.

I have also a great deal of dispute resolution experience here. You used the term "threatening" on your talk page, which is absolutely not what I am doing. There are certain conduct principles here, and reminding you or anyone else of them is not menacing behaviour.

The initial stages for preventing disputes flaring up are about getting both sides to state the issue as they see it, in their own words. Going ad hominem doesn't help that in the slightest.

As far as I can tell, the scoresheet so far reads:

• (Charles) Reference links here are being broken by semi-automated tools. Those who use the tools are responsible, and there is case law.
• (Tony) The problem lies with another community.

Do I have that correct? Charles Matthews (talk) 06:21, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, re User talk:Tony1#Broken links to Wikisource the only possible thing to add is "good grief". Charles Matthews (talk) 09:01, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

I certainly hope your "dispute resolution experience" produces better results when you deal with disputes between other parties; any such experience seems to go out the window when you're involved. Tony (talk) 03:48, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

You know, the sharp-tongued approach is just wrong. I can do it at will: for example you have just given an example of what we call in my family "generalising from one or fewer instances". I now have your view: I wouldn't call it "measured", but the aim in contacting you was to get it. You seem to be ignoring, also, the quite constructive discussion I'm now having with Ohconfucius. Charles Matthews (talk) 04:45, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

I don't see the logic. It wasn't a formal proposition; rather, it was in the manner of a questioning ("I certainly hope ..."). Tony (talk) 04:55, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, as ever, you are entitled to your opinion, that "seems" here does enough to qualify an assertion to make it not one. That remark was meant to be wounding, naturally; and I'm not so insecure in my past dealings with disputes as to pay it much mind. Could we agree that you have spent much time here on copy-editing matters, I on disputes? And move on.

In the original thread, the discussion has uncovered the mention of {{Bibleverse}}, and I'm hopeful therefore that the basis already exists in the Manual for a greater respect for the integrity of {{cite DNB}}, which is used on over 10,000 pages. Charles Matthews (talk) 05:19, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Althorp

Making good progress with this. Can you do me a favour and add a full citation for ref 18 for the ONDB ref?♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:25, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

 Done Charles Matthews (talk) 14:35, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2014

Hello, I'm Urger48400. I have a special interest in Charles MacFarlane and his work. I would like to help with this page. I have a jpg of a chalk-drawing portrait of him that was done by the artist William Brockedon in 1832. The original is in the National Gallery so I suppose it's in the public domain. How do I upload the jpg file so it can be included on Charles Macfarlane? I'm afraid I have no experience with such matters. -- Bob

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Discussion

Hello. I am Prateek Nagavalli alias Prateek. I want to discuss you about a deleted page named Viraj Dobriyal. Sir this page was falsely deleted on grounds of non notability. Madam this character is highly notable. I have came here for a discussion of it. I want to resurrect this page. And i have protested the deletion even i asked other admins to protect permanently. But no one took action. Please help me in this matter. I cannot edit that page and i want to edit and please protect the page fully. Please sir. Please PrateekTamilian (talk) 16:58, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

You have more work to do, before a page like this can be restored. There must be better references, from sources that are convincing about the notability of the character. Charles Matthews (talk) 17:02, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

I have sources for that i have collected. Karanvir Bohra played the character. And i want to work on it. Please help me

★பிரதீக்★ (Here i am) 17:06, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

What I see from Indian Telly Award for Best Actor in a Negative Role is that this role won an award for the actor. But also I see that generally such a role isn't a topic for a Wikipedia article: there are no links for roles on that page, anyway. So I think you need something to explain why this "negative role" is exceptional. Charles Matthews (talk) 17:46, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

FYI - PrateekTamilian is a sockpuppet of the original author of that article. It was deleted after AFD and they have recreated it several times with various socks. They tend to make these requests to random admins, always in a pleading, almost begging tone. Sorry for any trouble. Ravensfire (talk) 20:54, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

No trouble. The topic apparently is not notable by custom, but it might be in some circumstances. Charles Matthews (talk) 20:56, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Request for comment

Hello there, a proposal regarding pre-adminship review has been raised at Village pump by Anna Frodesiak. Your comments here is very much appreciated. Many thanks. Jim Carter through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:46, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Template:Highland-geo-stub

Hi, can you replace the blue map with File:Highland in Scotland.svg and at 30 rather than 25, I'm updating all the old maps in the stub templates for the UK and that one is protected for some reason! It shouldn't be controversial, I know Ben Macdui and co and they prefer the new maps! I think you could probably unprotect it, it doesn't have a history of vandalism and being Highlands is a low risk template anyway for vandalism!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:27, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

I've changed the image. Have you ever gone to Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Template editor? Charles Matthews (talk) 13:32, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, although you added an extra File: so it's red linked as the moment! I wasn't aware of it, but I might ask for it!♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:05, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Fixed now. Charles Matthews (talk) 16:37, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Now a template editor, thanks!♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:10, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Books & Bytes, Issue 6

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Edward Hodgson

I just created an article for this pretty obscure Cambridge University cricketer (and clergyman), and in debugging the links I see there's a painter without an article who has the same name. I've corrected the other links that I could find to Edward Hodgson (painter), but on your User:Charles_Matthews/Watercolours_H page there are two Edward Hodgsons, and I don't know how or whether you'd want to differentiate them. Either (or both) might in time be considered more notable than the cricketer, but for the moment at least he gets the prime slot as Edward Hodgson. Kind regards. Johnlp (talk) 09:01, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't have the watercolour book to hand. The Hodgson of s:Hodgson, Edward (DNB00) is not the one in "Your Paintings", Edward S. Hodgson [1]. All fairly obscure. Charles Matthews (talk) 15:37, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

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DNB stuff

Hi, I've just seen your sign-up at WP:BNA and noticed your comment about developing PD text. That reminded me of a recent instance where you used the old Dictionary of National Biography for an article and I ripped into you a bit for doing so (sorry). I'll be fixing that medical-related article - it is on my list, somewhere! - but, really, we shouldn't be using the old DNB if there is an entry in the more recent Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, which has revisions of the original entries. Even the ODNB comes under criticism, & the new head intends to address those; the original one is pretty dreadful and really should be an absolute last resort for those situations where someone has been dropped from the ODNB.

So, a tip for you if you are in the UK: if you do not already have access to ODNB then you can get it via Manchester Libraries' online service, even if you are not based in Manchester. Similarly, access to archives for The Times, The Observer and The Guardian. See here.

BRTW, copy/paste-and-slightly-modify is in my opinion a sloppy way to build an encyclopaedia and when the attribution method is used rather than inline citing, it causes all sorts of problems for future maintenance and development. I'm fairly sure that experienced contributors such as Moonriddengirl agree with me: it might be within the rules but it isn't a clever way to do things. A few minutes' more effort at the outset can save an awful lot of time for everyone else later. I might raise the issue at the Village Pump one day but hopefully you can understand why it might cause difficulties. - Sitush (talk) 06:41, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't remember the point you made, but I imagine I'd heard it before. I'm in Cambridge UK, and I use the ODNB all the time. The ODNB actually does cover everyone in the old DNB, though there are some article merges and splits to contend with.

I understand where you are coming from, fairly well. I can put the case on the other side in numbers, with reasonable confidence. There are between 7,500 and 8,000 biographies from the old DNB (with first two supplements) missing from the English Wikipedia. I monitor the numbers, and the "natural rate of creation" of such biographies here is currently something like one or two per month per 1000. In other words, it would take 50 years to completely "merge" the DNB here, without active efforts to do that.

I do inline citation for all articles I create from the DNB; and I add the inline citation in others I find (e.g. in James Bate, rather earlier this morning). Using various tools and Wikisource, where I started five years ago to work on the DNB text, I am able to pick up and monitor templates on articles that match DNB biographies here. For example, a little while ago I used this route to remove {{unreferenced}} from about 250 articles here, typically articles created six or seven years ago.

In other words, I do maintenance on all the DNB-related articles here (it's about 22,000 of them), as part of the DNB project. It's a long job. There are bad "text dump" versions of DNB text to find; but there are also one-line stubs that can be made into three to four paragraphs quickly using the DNB.

I also do an amount of work in creating an article from the DNB that is not negligible (section structure, wikification and disambiguation, cleaning up the language, usually searching for images). I check with the ODNB (usually); it is worth pointing out that the ODNB itself uses close copies of old DNB text. An example would be Colin Milne that I created today: I think the main text of the ODNB version really adds next to nothing to that.

Further, I do use the DNB text as a platform. A good example is Joseph Clinton Robertson. The DNB and ODNB both completely miss the main points about this figure. I need to do this selectively, because it is time-consuming, but I use JSTOR and the Cambridge University Library when that makes sense to me.

By the way, I'm on good terms with User:Moonriddengirl. The DNB project in quite early days had the effect of exposing massive copyvio from the ODNB by one editor in particular; and I keep on finding copyvio because I look out for it in DNB-related articles. I don't at all mind an honest debate on the use of DNB content here. WP:WP DNB can claim to have lists such as Wikipedia:WikiProject Dictionary of National Biography/Missing women that is actively worked on by the women's history WikiProject, and Wikipedia:WikiProject Dictionary of National Biography/Artists that was brought up just last week in discussion with the "Your Paintings" BBC website people, as a source of artist biographies.

I don't mean to sound complacent. What I stand for is "the best use" of the DNB text in relation to building this encyclopeda. I'm painfully aware of less good uses, but the point is to establish good practice and spread it: DNB text will be used here. Perhaps more tracking of such text is possible and done than you realise: I'm fortunate to have tools authored to do that by User:Magnus Manske. The project adds around 100 articles a month at the moment, and I do get barnstars (one above, for example).

Charles Matthews (talk) 07:03, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

I think very highly of both of you and have seen both of you do wonderful things. :D So, hello to both of you! Charles has been tremendously helpful in uncovering copyright issues and repairing them. The question of general attribution as opposed to inline (not in addition to) is a sticky one. I've done both - there are examples of each in my history - and I will admit that it has occurred to me that doing the general attribution can cause issues later when people add sourced material in the middle - suddenly sourcing from the DNB becomes unclear. The general attribution is allowed, but probably not best practice. Looking at stuff like Matthew Skinner, though, it doesn't look like this would be an issue there. :) --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:38, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

"Good practice" would consist of (i) double template use with both {{cite DNB}} and {{DNB}} in action (inline and in a footer respectively). Some people find that a bit clunky and there is (ii) a "harvard" version which allows one to use just one template (footer). I don't go for harvardising myself (too precious, too retro for me, and I think the future of referencing should be quite different, so that referencing style becomes a preference); but this second way is also good practice. Also (iii) super-good practice is to move to the inline referencing before you expand the article from any other reference. This is either "annoying" as a task, or a typical wiki "division of labour" thing, depending on one's understanding of how wikis really operate, when it is "someone else's problem", i.e. one is not the person who added the PD text.

It is not that good a practice to add further references without that step of clarification. (Matters are much worse, by the way, for sources like Britannica 1911, for which there is not a complete text up on Wikisource to which one can refer. Then one has to scrape around with a web search to find the original).

So I feel relying on (iii) and someone else is not so terrible when the complete text is on the end of a link. Though I would not do it today. Things move on.

Some of these discussions come for me under The Perfect Is the Enemy of the Good, The Tortoise and the Hare, and other proverbial stuff. It is good to ask operational questions like "how possible would it be to replace all the old EB1911 text on enWP" (apart from citations)? I would say it's a good and feasible project once the proper attribution template is in use. Charles Matthews (talk) 12:03, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

I am aware of the project and the gaps but I'm not seeing an argument for use of the DNB in all of this. We don't use old sources for fact when more modern ones exist, unless a significant fact has for some reason not been reported in the more modern works. And in that unusual situation, it often would pay dividends to consider why the omission may have occurred. Generally, the only really valid use of the DNB would be in the context of a development of scholarly or public opinion about a given person, eg: back then X received a hagiographic entry and the revision has been so great that X is now demonised in the modern entry. The same applies to the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica, which is a waste of space. - Sitush (talk) 17:01, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm sure that's an honest opinion. It is not, however, one I agree with. It for example assumes something like that the initial content of the article is what we are stuck with. Well, not on a wiki. What I said about "the perfect being the enemy of the good" applies. In a practical sense, factchecking the DNB article on someone gets you further and faster than starting from scratch.

In a project like List of dissenting academies (1660–1800), which explores to a reasonable extent a whole sector of English and Welsh education, the DNB and ODNB function as the first instance as conventional references. For the types of persons mentioned, the DNB articles by (for example) Alexander Gordon are quite respectable, if you take out his intrinsic bias towards the nonconformist point of view. That would not be true for those by, say, Alexander Balloch Grosart who, as far as I know, was thrown off the DNB project by Leslie Stephen. This is an area where "modern sources" are not exactly prolific. In fact I know from experience that academics themselves used to copy the old DNB shamelessly, up to about 1980 anyway. (You are wrong, in my view, to see the DNB and EB1911 as the same sort of text: the Britannica version of a biography is often a popularised and less scholarly take on the DNB content.)

I have been here long enough (11 years) to know the bottom line on how we self-assign our tasks. I get job satisfaction from DNB work because taking it all together, I can improve the encyclopedia in ways that seem to me significant. (I could go on all night ...could just mention that I only encountered you because I was following up on a DNB direction, and I'm not sorry to have.) Charles Matthews (talk) 17:50, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library: New Account Coordinators Needed

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WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles

Hi Charles, I wanted to seek your advice whether should we have a subpage under the above project for showcasing the articles which have been to DYK, GA or FA. It would encourage new editors to join our project. Most of my articles are stubs but considering the extent of our project it is highly unlikely that none of the articles created by the project members is recognized. Our project has seen decline in the number of active participants and even the progress page isn't updated regularly. Since the last 8 months I have been on Wikipedia, the monthly focus has been the list of missing Canadian politicians. We need to take some strong steps to raise the number of participants.--Skr15081997 (talk) 08:58, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't have tactics to suggest. Strategically, the essay Wikipedia:Merging encyclopedias has been dormant for five years. So it is looking fairly much obsolete now. Probably current "good practice" should be written up in a new essay. Wikisource is part of my day-to-day operations with the DNB project. Wikidata ought to be considered as relevant to these matters too. There is a particular "mix'n'match" tool that relates to these issues (potentially to replace the listings of articles). It should be interesting to document some of these matters. Charles Matthews (talk) 18:09, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

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WikiProject assessment tags for talk pages

Thank you for your recent articles, including Joseph David Everett, which I read with interest. When you create a new article, can you add the WikiProject assessment templates to the talk of that article? See the talk page of the article I mentioned for an example of what I mean. Usually it is very simple, you just add something like {{WikiProject Keyword}} to the article's talk, with keyword replaced by the associated WikiProject (ex. if it's a biography article, you would use WikiProject Biography; if it's a United States article, you would use WikiProject United States, and so on). You do not have to rate the article if you do not want to, others will do it eventually. Those templates are very useful, as they bring the articles to a WikiProject attention, and allow them to start tracking the articles through Wikipedia:Article alerts and other tools. For example, WikiProject Poland relies on such templates to generate listings such as Article Alerts, Popular Pages, Quality and Importance Matrix and the Cleanup Listing. Thanks to them, WikiProject members are more easily able to defend your work from deletion, or simply help try to improve it further. Feel free to ask me any questions if you'd like more information about using those talk page templates. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 22:25, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

I am familiar with the kind of template. Adding them to all my article creations would be quite an overhead. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:08, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Rees's Cyclopaedia -- again

I've just posted The music articles in Rees's Cyclopaedia together with the beginning of List of biographies of musicians in Rees's Cyclopaedia, after some 14 months of work. I now find the latter has been nominated for deletion on the grounds that it an index to the work. Since there are already a number of existing indices to parts of Rees, I don't see the logic of it. Any comments will be gratefully received!!Apwoolrich (talk) 17:51, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

May take a bit of work. The good news is that the list satisfies WP:LSC. You may want to offer to usefy the list (move it into your user space, that is). It might do better in this case as a list embedded in the "music articles". Charles Matthews (talk) 18:01, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks for your efforts on this. Much appreciated. I must read and digest WP:LSC. Not clear by what is involved by moving it to my user space or by embedding it in the "music articles". Why does moving it there make it less likely to be deleted? Can you explain it to me, please? I have to add a note at the beginning to explain what it is about, of course. One interesting aspect of the work has been my discovery that some of the sheets of Rees were re-imposed in the course of the printing, with additional material. As an experiment I downloaded the Burney digitised biographies from Vols 1 and 2 on the Hathi Trust site, and discovered that a number were missing. The U Michigan set was scanned there. My personal set matches the U Toronto set, digitised on the Internet Archive. Vols 1 and 2 of the American edition have a number missing.Apwoolrich (talk) 18:58, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Placing anything in your user space means it is treated as some sort of draft, and no one is likely to worry about it there.

As I commented on the AfD page, what is happening is resistance to WP:SUMMARY being applied. So one solution is to say "OK then", and include the biographies list. Charles Matthews (talk) 19:08, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. Is this the same as my sandbox? I'm tied up now and am out all day tomorrow, so I'll have a look at the problem on Friday.Apwoolrich (talk) 20:49, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Could be at User:Apwoolrich/List of biographies of musicians in Rees's Cyclopaedia, for example. Charles Matthews (talk) 21:11, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

In the AfD comment you mention 'discussion with OP'. What does OP mean please? Once I have Userfied the material, (and made another for the Music articles), what is the etiquette for linking it now to the main music article? I can Wikify the articles titles, if that is what is meant by the term 'make encyclopaedic'. It has already been done for the list of Rees contributors, and also the list of long articles. But with some 1800 articles to cover it will take a while.Apwoolrich (talk) 06:29, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

OP is just jargon for "original poster". I think we should discuss what next by email. Charles Matthews (talk) 06:33, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I shall await to hear from you. I've re-started the piece on my user page, and posted a comment on the AfD discussion to this effect.Apwoolrich (talk) 08:40, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

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Wikipedia failure and just basic insanity

Dear Charles, I'm posting on your page because what I've been seeing on Wikipedia just got too bizarre to just let slide. I'm talking about the The Story of Alexander Graham Bell page which has the strangest misplaced information I've ever seen (the thing about the Indians) and which would almost be a shame to edit out. The rest of the page contains incorrect or misleading information and the talk page refers to an editing war with some German guy who maintains the telephone was invented there, which is most likely true, but this Hollywood movie page isn't the place to resolve that issue. This is just the culmination of similar problems, the related page Elisha Gray and Alexander Bell telephone controversy is also unnaceptable in its current state.

My basic point is this: Wikipedia is working up to a point, then refereeing and non-anonymous expert editors are required for information to be reliable. Does Wikipedia have any plans to do something about this stuff? I've been a bit disillusioned for a while now.

Best regards, -ilan ilan (talk) 22:42, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for getting in touch: I'll try to look at the pages, though I have a busy couple of days ahead. Charles Matthews (talk) 05:21, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

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Iring Fetscher

Hi Charles, I've seen Iring Fetscher on your to do list. He died yesterday in Frankfurt. (Obituaries: SZ, NZZ.) Cheers --Conchpotters (talk) 20:34, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. Those are old lists, but I'm glad they still have uses. Charles Matthews (talk) 20:37, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

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Books and Bytes - Issue 7

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 7, June-July 2014
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

• Seven new donations, two expanded partnerships
• TWL's Final Report up, read the summary
• Adventures in Las Vegas, WikiConference USA, and updates from TWL coordinators
• Spotlight: Blog post on BNA's impact on one editor's research

Read the full newsletter

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WikiProject assessment tags for talk pages

Thank you for your recent articles, including Georg Ritschel, which I read with interest. When you create a new article, can you add the WikiProject assessment templates to the talk of that article? See the talk page of the article I mentioned for an example of what I mean. Usually it is very simple, you just add something like {{WikiProject Keyword}} to the article's talk, with keyword replaced by the associated WikiProject (ex. if it's a biography article, you would use WikiProject Biography; if it's a United States article, you would use WikiProject United States, and so on). You do not have to rate the article if you do not want to, others will do it eventually. Those templates are very useful, as they bring the articles to a WikiProject attention, and allow them to start tracking the articles through Wikipedia:Article alerts and other tools. For example, WikiProject Poland relies on such templates to generate listings such as Article Alerts, Popular Pages, Quality and Importance Matrix and the Cleanup Listing. Thanks to them, WikiProject members are more easily able to defend your work from deletion, or simply help try to improve it further. Feel free to ask me any questions if you'd like more information about using those talk page templates. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:44, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

You left me a similar message recently. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:21, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles: ADB

I am copying and copy-editing an old (copyright expired) detailed day by day account of the Waterloo Campaign. With the 200th anniversary of the campaign approaching, I think it is a useful thing to port to Wikiepdia as many people think that there were three battles and that was the campaign, in fact 1,000 more died before and after the big battles in dozens of holding operations and sieges. Also the attitudes of Blucher and Wellington to how their troops should behave when invading France are still the same two attitudes that still dominant today.

The old text mentions many places and names for which there are currently no Wikipedia articles. So I am writing dozens of small articles (as there no point in such a detailed description if it does not include the modern names of the villages through which the columns passed (the geo-coordinates in those village articles will allow someone in the future to create accurate maps of the fighting).

I am also linking the names of those mentioned to biography articles, and as part of that exercise I am writing many small biographies. The links are particularly useful for readers because most of the histories of the campaign (including modern ones), will for for example contain "Colonel von Bismark"[sic], but do not give his full name, which as you know is an area where HTML articles are so superior to text based articles (von Bismarck).

Many of the notable Frenchmen mentioned in the text for which there is no biography article, have short biographies in the Universal pronouncing dictionary of biography and mythology. The DNB is a useful source for British articles and I am familiar with what to do to aid the DNB project, when I create or add information to Wikipedia article that uses DNB; but I have just created a stub for Jakob Friedrich von Rüchel-Kleist using ADB as a source and noticed that there was a link to Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/ADB 40 which you created. As of yet there are no instruction at the top of that page, what is it that you want done in the way of ticks etc to that page when I create an stub or larger article and find it is linked in to that page?

-- PBS (talk) 19:15, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Good point. I actually only posted the pages here: they were created for me by User:Magnus Manske.

Also I can't immediately understand the system behind the HTML ticks ✓ that occur on some of the pages.

I think a useful system would be to mark the line with Y (i.e. {{tick}}) to the right of the bullet, when the leftmost link has become blue and matches the subject of the de.ws link. That is the actual ADB link, of course. The link to the right is just supposed to be a helpful suggestion, for example for a redirection. Charles Matthews (talk) 19:41, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Based on what you have written I have placed instructions at the top of the age (see Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/ADB 40#Project instructions) and added a tick next to the Jakob Friedrich von Rüchel-Kleist entry. If you make any changes you think are needed to the instructons, then I suggest we can copy it to a sub-page (eg {Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/ADB Instructions) and then include it at the top of all the ADB pages. -- PBS (talk) 12:02, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, that's helpful. With Wikimania starting for me tomorrow, I may not get to that for a few days. Charles Matthews (talk) 12:40, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

I hope have fun. Please let me know when you have made any modifications that you think appropriate and I'll take on the chore of adding the text to all of the pages. -- PBS (talk) 10:36, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

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Fields Medal page

Hello there,I'm that user who's been the victim of editing the Fields Medal page(i.e.I got blocked with charge of Vandalism.).I've got three question:1)When the current protected status of that page ends,Does the page current contents remain in place or they are replaced with the old version? 2)I've prepared a new and somehow comprehensive table about Fields medalists.I posted this table on the discussion section of the Fields Medal page,and I request for comments about this(If You come there and see my that table I will be really glad,and don't forget to put your comment about it down there!;-)),but so far,just one person did so.Is it normal? 3)Should I submit a request for edit to replace the new table with current one?Or should I wait for reaching a consensus?Thank You. Rezameyqani (talk) 07:50, 19 August 2014 (UTC)Rezameyqani (talk) 08:32, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Hello. I looked at the block log: the block of 48 hours is now over, and the issue was not vandalism, but edit warring.

You are welcome to edit Fields Medal, but there are two or three things you should do:

• Use an edit summary to explain your changes;
• Make small changes, not changes in several places at once, so you can explain them.
• Give some sort of reference for any serious factual change.

Charles Matthews (talk) 08:42, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind words and great tips.I will take them seriously and I do my best to imply them when trying to edit an article. As far as I could realize,You are somehow involved in math!I will be glad to hear your comment about the table I created.Finally,the old table contains many errors.If I wanted to discuss these errors one by one on the talk page,It will take a very longtime!Is there any possibility that we can convince Wiki community to accept this substantial change?Thank You.Rezameyqani (talk) 10:04, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Probably the best advice is to leave a message (new section) on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. I last worked as a mathematician 25 years ago now. Charles Matthews (talk) 10:10, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks my friend,I did it right away. Rezameyqani (talk) 10:44, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

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WikiProject assessment tags for talk pages

Thank you for your recent articles, including Stanislaus Hoga , which I read with interest. When you create a new article, can you add the WikiProject assessment templates to the talk of that article? See the talk page of the article I mentioned for an example of what I mean. Usually it is very simple, you just add something like {{WikiProject Keyword}} to the article's talk, with keyword replaced by the associated WikiProject (ex. if it's a biography article, you would use WikiProject Biography; if it's a United States article, you would use WikiProject United States, and so on). You do not have to rate the article if you do not want to, others will do it eventually. Those templates are very useful, as they bring the articles to a WikiProject attention, and allow them to start tracking the articles through Wikipedia:Article alerts and other tools. For example, WikiProject Poland relies on such templates to generate listings such as Article Alerts, Popular Pages, Quality and Importance Matrix and the Cleanup Listing. Thanks to them, WikiProject members are more easily able to defend your work from deletion, or simply help try to improve it further. Feel free to ask me any questions if you'd like more information about using those talk page templates. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 15:01, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

This is the third time you have contacted me on this matter.

Let me then explain my time management system. When I create an article, I do more work than I think most people do, in linking to it from other articles. This sometimes involves adding up to 100 wikilinks. I believe no one else is likely to do this work.

Mostly my articles are well identified by the keyword bot, and notified to WikiProjects. This seems to me a good system. Members of the WikiProject can tag the talk page if that is appropriate. I feel this work is likely to be done by someone else, and divsion of labour applies.

Charles Matthews (talk) 15:18, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Duplicate journalists

Hi Charles,

Going through ODNB matches I've come across Marchamont Needham and Marchmont Nedham - both match s:Needham, Marchamont (DNB00), though neither seems at a glance to be a close copy. The seventeenth century is well out of my range - any idea which version is better for merging? Andrew Gray (talk) 11:30, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Hah - the ODNB says "Marchamont Nedham", pleasing nobody. Blair Worden also in Literature and Politics in Cromwellian England: John Milton, Andrew Marvell, Marchamont Nedham (2007). So I'd go for that title. Charles Matthews (talk) 11:42, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Category:Italian encyclopedists

Hi Charles, get you connect this with it:Categoria:Enciclopedisti italiani, I couldn't get the link to save in wikidata.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:11, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Done now. There was a technical issue with the page being on another Wikidata page. Charles Matthews (talk) 16:16, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I was wondering if you could also think of or find any missing Category:Women encyclopedists for Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women writers?♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:23, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

There are some names here. Charles Matthews (talk) 16:31, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

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WikiProject assessment tags for talk pages

Thank you for your recent articles, including Bernard Connor, which I read with interest. When you create a new article, can you add the WikiProject assessment templates to the talk of that article? See the talk page of the article I mentioned for an example of what I mean. Usually it is very simple, you just add something like {{WikiProject Keyword}} to the article's talk, with keyword replaced by the associated WikiProject (ex. if it's a biography article, you would use WikiProject Biography; if it's a United States article, you would use WikiProject United States, and so on). You do not have to rate the article if you do not want to, others will do it eventually. Those templates are very useful, as they bring the articles to a WikiProject attention, and allow them to start tracking the articles through Wikipedia:Article alerts and other tools. For example, WikiProject Poland relies on such templates to generate listings such as Article Alerts, Popular Pages, Quality and Importance Matrix and the Cleanup Listing. Thanks to them, WikiProject members are more easily able to defend your work from deletion, or simply help try to improve it further. Feel free to ask me any questions if you'd like more information about using those talk page templates. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:07, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

This being the fourth such message you have left for me recently, I refer to my detailed answer to the third. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:19, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Cambridge_meetup_20_September_and_Wiki_Loves_Monuments

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Hi Charles, I shall be in Cambridge on 20/9 after all, so are you still thinking of doing a walking tour before the meetup? I'll leave a note on the meetup page. Cheers, cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 21:58, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, unless the weather is bad. See the meetup page. Charles Matthews (talk) 05:05, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

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September 2014

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Sir Robert Gordon, 1st Baronet

Hi Charles, thanks for starting the article Sir Robert Gordon, 1st Baronet. I have been meaning to do this for a long time but never got round to it. So you beat me to it :). QuintusPetillius (talk) 18:01, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome. Actually it was somewhat accidental, since I happened on Sir Robert Gordon, 3rd Baronet as a missing F.R.S., which is a bit marginal. And then thought of doing the grandfather. Charles Matthews (talk) 18:45, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Mo Abudu

Greetings Charles Matthews, I was unable to find the "create" option in the Mo Abudu article. I understand that it has been previously deleted on 3 occasions because of copyrights issues. Could you unlock the article so I can work on it? Thanks. Darreg (talk) 22:30, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

I noticed that it has been created with a different name probably because of the salting on the page. I will need it to its appropriate title.Darreg (talk) 22:33, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

The page is moved now. Charles Matthews (talk) 06:21, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

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Online DNB

You need a subscription but somehow I was on the bios earlier, not anymore though. Anyway, is it really necessary for additional information on the older 1900 people? Also, you don't have to put quotes around text if you copy it do you, I didn't see any quotes on articles you made. Someone on my talk page said to. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 15:21, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

The ODNB isn't public domain right. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 15:46, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

It obviously isn't nevermind. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 15:54, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the work you're doing. I use a basic text template to help with conversions, and by including inline referencing in that, I find that it only takes a few seconds extra. See detailed discussion on your Talk for the rest. Charles Matthews (talk) 16:09, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 8

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 8, August-September2014
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

• TWL now a Wikimedia Foundation program, moves on from grant status
• Four new donations, including large DeGruyter parntership, pilot with Elsevier
• New TWL coordinators, Wikimania news, new library platform discussions, Wiki Loves Libraries update, and more
• Spotlight: "Traveling Through History" - an editor talks about his experiences with a TWL newspaper archive, Newspapers.com

Read the full newsletter

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Samuel William Fores

Greetings. Any chance you could find something more on him mentioned in ODNB etc?♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:20, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

He exhibited a 6 foot model guillotine in London at the time of the French Revolution.[2] Must be worth a DYK ... Charles Matthews (talk) 16:23, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Now that is interesting!♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:04, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

This is quite fun, if 3D. There is a lot that comes up in searching for "Fores of Piccadilly"; also his address was "50 Piccadilly" then "41 Piccadilly" (a numbering change rather than a move). Charles Matthews (talk) 17:25, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Hah, copyvio or what> [3] copies the ODNB article. Charles Matthews (talk) 17:29, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

I do have ODNB access but I can't remember where I stored the card number!♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:59, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Talented man.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:45, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

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