User talk:Fenix down/Archive 4

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Pochtovik

Not really, but it should do. Turns out that the Russian Post database has this location under "Дьаргалах" (Dyargalakh) instead of "Джаргалах" (Dzhargalakh). I probably need to modify the post code referencing part of the infobox so it would be possible to include notes about such situations... in the meanwhile pochtovik ref will do. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); April 7, 2014; 17:42 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of DIG Baton Rouge

Fine with me. I updated, redirected and added a reference from another page because I found new information. I also left this message on my talk page. "I have no opinion about this page. Edit as you please." Spatms (talk) 8:35, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Cerro Porteno

Hello friend. Why cannot I submit the notable player section for the football club? I see many club's already posses this notable players area so I wanted to add this also for the club Cerro Porteno. I revised the good faith meaning and I see that you acknowledge my intention for to help the page with the good intention, but why cannot I include this? Please help friend. Thank you talk) 17:55, 6 June 2014 (AEST)

Gratitude

Thank you friend for you professional assistance of helping me. I give you cookies for a present to show appreciate of your help. You are good, fellow wikipedian, please continue to help others too, friend.

talk) 20:33, 6 June 2014 (AEST)

Orphaned non-free image File:Nikao Sokattack FC Logo.gif

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Orphaned non-free image File:AS Tefana Logo.gif

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Orphaned non-free image File:Eastern Stars FC.gif

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Orphaned non-free image File:Hekari United Logo.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Logo of the Papua New Guinea National Soccer League.gif

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Orphaned non-free image File:Marist Fire FC Logo.jpg

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Nappturality

You PRODded this, and it was deleted. Undeletion has been requested at WP:REFUND, so per WP:DEL#Proposed deletion I have restored it, and now notify you in case you wish to consider AfD. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 13:47, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated

Hi, I'm Sulaimandaud. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Board of Revenue, Sindh, and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you. Sulaimandaud (talk) 19:40, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Grêmio's players

Hello man. I wonder because you indicated to exclude three pages I created.

Gabriel Spessato
Gustavo Pereira de Lima
Jonatan Piccoli Silveira

They play in the Grêmio and I'm doing everything possible to create pages for each of your players. Wanted an explanation. Thanks.

Lucas Gaúcho (talk) 14:47, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi, it's beacuse the source I provided in the box that appears at the top of the article indicates that they have not played in a FULLY professional league, only in the state league, which is not fully professional by consensus. In the case of Gustavo Pereira de Lima, it is because the article indicates that he hasn't played at all. For football players to be notable, they essentially need to have played either senior international football or played in a fully professional league. Simply being a professional footballer is not enough. Fenix down (talk) 14:51, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Standing between reserves in Campeonato Brasileiro Série A is not enough? Players that you have marked for deletion that can play at any time, and only give me the job of creating the page again. Lucas Gaúcho (talk) 15:10, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately not, the player must play in a fully professional league or semior international football, unless they have received significant non-routine coverage for other achivenments. Reserve play, state league play (with the exception of Paulista) or youth internationals are not sufficient by the guidelines I noted. A playwer does however, only have to play a minute to qualify. In terms of them being able to play at any time, you are correct, but articles should be created for subjects that ARE notable, not in anticipation of notability. For all the players I marked, creating them because you expect them to play at some time contravenes WP:CRYSTAL. Fenix down (talk) 15:13, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Although I do not agree with that favoring the Campeonato Paulista, because the other state leagues are also professionals, understand what he said. I save the pages to republish them when they play, and then I'll delete. Thanks for responding. Lucas Gaúcho (talk) 15:20, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure why the list has Paulista and not others. If you can find sources that indicate that Gaucho is also fully professional, then please start a thread at WT:FOOTY to gain consensus. In terms of saving them before they are deleted, it is best to do that offline rather than in your user space. Fenix down (talk) 15:22, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I'll do that. Where can I find a list of alloys that are considered professionals in Wikipedia? Lucas Gaúcho (talk) 15:27, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Do you mean leagues? If so, they can be found here: WP:FPL. Fenix down (talk) 15:28, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for help. Lucas Gaúcho (talk) 15:31, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Deletion of the page Max Leopold Wagner

I find it strange that anyone would question the importance of an eminent scholar of this level. In addition, it seems to me ridiculous, in a sense, having to waste time to prove something that is obvious. For these reasons, I hope you have the foresight to restore as soon as the page so that I can complete it. Thank you Fpittui (talk) 17:50, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

File:Nikao Sokattack FC Logo.gif listed for deletion

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Disambiguation link notification for July 17

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Recent prods

I was looking at your recent prods of Guilherme de Jesus da Silva and Tiago Machowski of Gremio of the fully professional top Brazilian league Campeonato Brasileiro Série A. Both have starts last year - in fact they both started in this match - [1]. But this seems so obvious, that I'm starting to wonder what I'm missing, and why no one deprodded the articles in 9 days? Nfitz (talk) 05:23, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

You're correct that they have made appearances, but only in the Campeonato Gaucho, which at the moment is not regarded as a fully professional league. There is a discussion here that has kicked off as a result as to whether it is full-pro, and whilst evidence has been presented that there is money in the comeptition, I haven't seen anything concrete to suggest FPL status. Fenix down (talk) 08:46, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
Ah ... I see my error. I've mistaken Campeonato Gaúcho Série A1 for Campeonato Brasileiro Série A. That explains it ... just seemed to be too many. Thanks, Nfitz (talk) 15:05, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Provideniya history

Your June addition has some interesting material, sorely needed, on the origins of the modern town. However, I have three concerns 1. It is unsourced 2. The treatment of the Kurbat Ivanov discovery is misleading. Ivanov's discovery did not, as implied, lead to trading and whaling. Instead it was forgotten for 200 years. 3. The Anglicization of the name to "Providence" does not follow style or agree with the rest of the article. It also raises the question of where this section came from. Dankarl (talk) 02:56, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Albania national football team campaign at the 2014 FIFA World Cup qualification

I don't understand where is the problem with my page, as I've started creating by basing on an national team football season, then I found this template: Infobox national football team season which is more than correctly. Also I saw that some national teams have also an season but only as a calendaric year, these are such : Australia, South Korea, etc. Atleast you must say that page should move/rename or something similar but not to delete as an unecessary.Thank you. Eni.Sukthi.Durres (talk) 20:55, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi, unfortunately there are several problems with the page: firstly, there is no consensus that articles covering qualifying comeptitions for individual nations are required. Secondly, there are major issues with WP:NOTSTATS, there is no sourced prose in the article and finally, as a result of the lack f sourced prose, the article is essentially just a fork of the relevant qualifying group article which has all the matches, standings and results in it. Fenix down (talk) 07:11, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

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Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Isak_Ssewankambo

Could you please have another look at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Isak_Ssewankambo ? Perhaps you migHt change your vote for the El Ghazi article. Thanks, --86.211.45.169 (talk) 21:18, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

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Jordan Morris

Hey, I want you to take a look at a couple of links for me and let me know if you think they're good enough to satisfy WP:GNG for this person. I'm working on a user page right now just in case they don't meet the guideline. Here are the links ---> [4][5]. – Michael (talk) 06:49, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Mike. To be honest, I would say not in this instance as they are from primary sources. As such, I think they are little more than puff pieces for a promising young player. Having said that if there are a number of similar reports / interview in secondary sources then, depending on their length / significance they could be used. As they stand, I would only think these could be used to enhance an article if the player already passed WP:NFOOTY or fulfilled GNG through other means. Fenix down (talk) 08:46, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
Well, these are the best ones I've come across. [6][7] I don't know man. I understand that WP:GNG is the top priority, but it's hard to reach that when a certain article or topic doesn't meet a specific guideline first. My other concern is the fact that WP:BLP1E has been brought up on quite a number of deletion discussions recently and if being the first college player to be called up to the U.S. team since 99' would also count as a "one even doesn't make him notable" issue. – Michael (talk) 22:57, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

September 2014

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Orphaned non-free image File:Club Eagles.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:Hurriya SC.gif

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Orphaned non-free image File:Maziya S&RC.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:New Radiant SC.png

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Orphaned non-free image File:VB Addu FC.png

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AFD

Nailed it. Keep up the good work. St★lwart111 09:50, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Cal Poly Mustangs men's soccer

I'm sure you got a notification and are aware, but wanted to let you know that User:Ldurkin reverted your change to Cal Poly Mustangs men's soccer. Thought you'd want to take a look. Thanks! GauchoDude (talk) 16:52, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Famous players

Is there a reason why you removed tons of famous players categories? Wouldn't it be better to include some criteria as opposed to just deleting everything Abcmaxx (talk) 13:13, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

No because I don't know what the criteria would be. Please add criteria if you can, but the manual of style is quite clear, such lists should not exist without clear inclusion criteria that would enable a reader to know exactly why a specific player is being called out for attention. Fenix down (talk) 16:28, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
I just stated the inclusion criteria! I think deleting an entire section on the basis of "I can't find any rules so let's bin it" is counter-productive. I also think it's pretty obvious who the club legends are, and any international capped player is usually a famous one especially as in the past playing in a foreign club wasn't as common, media coverage wasn't as good, and football wasn't as popular in most countries, and therefore to be called up to the national team was a bigger distinction than it is now. I don't know what club you support (if any) but I'm sure there are players who the fans identify with and consider them to have a long lasting effect on the club, especially with clubs like Legia, a club with a rich history, their fans to this day make tifos and actions honouring past players. Significant contributions is pretty clear, if a player has majorly contributed to the team winning trophies, promotion or is generally still remembered (remember thousands of players go through each club and 99% are forgotten) then that is a significant contribution and inclusion criteria. I'm not sure why there is even a need to dispute something as ridiculous as this, a clubs famous player is clearly put in there for a reason, it's not like all the squads from every season are put in the list, only a few of those who someone demmed memorable enough to include in there Abcmaxx (talk) 19:17, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
I would suggest you reread the manual of style again. Your opinion of what a club legend is will differ from someone else's. It is important to remember that these are encyclopedia articles and not fan pages. You must assume that the reader has no knowledge of the subject in discussion. In such instances the assurance that so and so is a club legend in an edit summary some time ago is of little use. As such the lists as long as they are not excessive are fine when they contain clear inclusion criteria. None of those removed did and we're removed with clear reference to consensus. There are plenty of others in the list of polish clubs that link to an national football teams.com page. If you are confident of the list then please add such references or at the very least inclusion criteria. I would warn you that the notion of "significant contributions" is completely unacceptable as your idea of significant and mine may very well differ. In any case if the contribution is that significant it is always better to be discussed in sourced prose rather than a list. Fenix down (talk) 08:28, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
so why not put a template saying "this needs inclusion criteria" (on most pages they are pretty obvious) as opposed to deleting entire sections. If a semi-professional club has produced players which went on to produce top division players they are going to be famous. I don't why you get to decide what's notable and what's not. I could delete whole chunks of history too in that case, because no "inclusion criteria on what fact are notable enough". In fact how do you decide on what honours are notable? Or anything on wikipedia for that matter? Your little crusade is just preposterous, I have not seen a single list which was too excessive for notable players, especially in the Polish 5th divisions Abcmaxx (talk) 16:47, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
Because there is no obligation to do so. I feel like I am repeating my self here but the manual of style is absolutely clear on this matter. Lists of notable players MUST have inclusion criteria. In case you haven't read the relevant section here, this is what it says: It may be useful to readers to have a list of players who have been of importance at a club, but any such list should have clear inclusion/exclusion criteria, and the section header should reflect such criteria. Any editor considering adding a player to such a list, or excising one, should be able to make such a decision on the basis of verifiable fact, not opinion or whim. Such criteria will vary according to the level at which the club plays, or has played. Players considered important to the history of the club, but who do not meet such criteria, can be referred to in the history section. This is long established consensus, and consensus I might add that I had not input in shaping whatsoever.
Where there are none you are wrong, it is not obvious why they are inherently and it is not the reader's obligation to investigation, it is the editor who created the lists responsilibty to ensure that there are clear criteria so that there can be no doubt. You may know that so and so is a legendary player for a club but firstly you should not assume that any other reader does, secondly you should not put the emphasis on the reader to investigate why specific players are being called out as particularly notable and thirdly you should not confuse your "knowledge" with what wikipedia is actually about, which is verifiability.
I am not deciding what is notable or what is not, the manual of style is as I have said, quite clear on this, criteria must be added. I have only removed lists where there are none at all or nebulous comments discussing "significant contributions" which lend them selves too readily to OR. To be honest, lists like these are not desired by WP at all per WP:NOTSTATS. If a player is that significant to a given club then it is always preferrable to have this discussed in sourced prose in the history section of the article so a reader can see the player in proper context. What does a simple list of players add to an article? Fenix down (talk) 17:04, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Noah Pavlowski

Hi, just wondering if you might be willing to give me your opinion on what sort of material you think would be good for the expansion of the Noah Pawlowski article. There is a lot of news coverage on him so it's not a problem finding info, but rather I want to make sure that it's inline with what has already been posted. Thanks YouCallThisClean? (talk) 02:04, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi @YouCallThisClean?: the best advice I can offer is to stay away from WP:ROUTINE articles. for footballers these are generally considered to be match reports, line ups, stat sites etc. The fact that there is already one article cited about his all-Canadian status to my mind goes beyond the routine and it would be best to expand the article around that, as it is that award that is currently the main achievement in his career. If you can find interviews with the player from third parties (not saying you can't use ones from his school, but they would carry less weight as primary sources. Sorry I didn't see this earlier. For future reference its best to add nes topics to the bottom of a talk page. Fenix down (talk) 16:09, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Trashy aditions in Cruz Azul by an ip from US

Please, add Cruz Azul to your watchlist to be aware of when it returns this ip to mess article. Thanks. Trumplink (talk) 02:46, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Murun Altankhuyag

Where does WP:MON give the 'alternative'/'native' spelling for this person? GiantSnowman 10:51, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Mr Nobody

Hey Felix why take out former players from Southern Utd FC? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.60.20.149 (talk) 05:26, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of 1993 Cook Islands Round Cup

The article 1993 Cook Islands Round Cup has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

page gas basically no info. it uses tewo sources, that contradict each other.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Koppapa (talk) 08:55, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

LOL

Humor Barnstar!
I cant stop laughing! Ahahaha! cheers! FkpCascais (talk) 17:06, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Ahahaha!

Haha, I do like it when I find those little nuggets, so much better than hoax articles! I wonder how long that has been there! Fenix down (talk) 17:16, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Brookhattan

You're fine to keep reverting, see WP:3RRNO - this is "obvious vandalism" and I have come across this IP hopper before. I've semi-protected the article for now. GiantSnowman 19:38, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I've blocked the account, please tag any/all IPs with {{IPsock}} so we can keep track of them, and let me know and I'll block them. GiantSnowman 09:57, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

SveinFalk

Message left for them. GiantSnowman 17:45, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Would you consider...

I needed to look up something in your talk page archives, and looking at the very first one, I realized that it's been five and a half years since you joined Wikipedia. That's quite a run these days! You are a great contributor, know your way around, do tons of routine maintenance stuff others shy from, and overall are wonderful to deal with (unless one is a vandal, that is :)). This said, would you be interested in running for adminship at all? I'd be more than happy to write and submit a nomination. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 6, 2015; 14:33 (UTC)

To be honest, it is something I had thought about in the past. At that time my focus was more on article creation and actual writing so it was something then I would say I wouldn't have been so interested in. However, over time I have got much more involved in AfDs, maintenance, vandalism reverting, so the idea has become a lot more appealing. This is particularly true the more I am involved with WP:FOOTY. Although there are a couple of active admins there, because the subject matter is so large and attracts a lot of editors often with passionate ties to various clubs / players there is often a lot to deal with and more minor players / clubs / nations where I spend a lot of my time seem to attract just as much vandalism as bigger articles, but fewer conscientious editors. I would probably make good use of PP in these instances, and it would be good to have another admin voice around the project. I'd be happy for you to submit a nom and see where it went! Thanks for asking! Fenix down (talk) 15:42, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
Glad to hear that! We could certainly use more admins who have experience with content creation—we already have far too many drones whose only task around here seems to be enforcing the guidelines to the letter with no flexibility, remorse, or thinking. In my experience, admins who routinely create content are much more effective in both maintenance and in interpreting the guidelines in a manner that maximizes both readers' experience and editors' productivity.
So, how about next week; will that work for you? You'll need to be generally available to answer questions candidates are asked, and answering them might take up a good chunk of your time. If you are going to be busy in real life, it would probably be best to postpone the nom, but if you are available, so am I :) Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 6, 2015; 15:56 (UTC)
I should be. How much time do you think I would need to set aside in total. No problem if it is a fair bit but want to make sure I can set it aside inadvance. Fenix down (talk) 17:03, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
That would mostly depend on how thoroughly you'll want to answer those questions (and, of course, on how many questions you are asked). I'd say an hour a day for the duration of the RfA is a conservative estimate. You might want to look at recent RfAs to get an idea of how involved they are.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 6, 2015; 17:20 (UTC)
That should be doable. If you gave me a few days to read through a few RfAs and them made the nom sometime in the middle of next week that would be fine by me if it is Ok with you? Fenix down (talk) 17:25, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
Absolutely. Let's plan it on next Wednesday for now.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 6, 2015; 18:00 (UTC)
Sounds good. Enjoy the weekend. Fenix down (talk) 18:06, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

SveinFalk ANI

I'm letting you know that I've taken the SveinFalk case to ANI. (see WP:ANI#Comments by User:SveinFalk). While I can understand you're idea of waiting until the source of their frustration has dissipated and then taking action if the behaviour persists, but I can't agree with it. That was decision following the ANI last October and look and where we've wound up. In any case, I'd appreciate your input. Cheers. Sir Sputnik (talk) 07:09, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Admin nom

Hi there! Just wanted to let you know that I've submitted your nomination; it can be viewed here. Before it can go forward, you'll need to formally accept it (look for the "Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here" part) and answer the three boilerplate questions already on that page. Feel free to take as much time as you need. Once you accept and answer the questions, the nomination will be transcluded on the main RfA page. Wishing you the best of luck and hope to see you mopping the floors around here in no time! :)—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 16, 2015; 16:17 (UTC)

Thanks, hopefully I have done everything correctly! Fenix down (talk) 19:32, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Great! I've transcluded your nom so it is now live. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 16, 2015; 20:29 (UTC)

Your request for adminship

Hi Fenix down, I have closed your request for adminship as successful. Congratulations! As always, the administrators' reading list is worth reading and the new admin school is most certainly available if you feel that you might require some practice with the tools in a safe environment prior to applying them elsewhere on the project. Good luck with your adminship! Acalamari 19:28, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Congratulations! :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:29, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Welcome to the ranks. Let me know if you need to know which end to hold the mop by. Chillum 20:41, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks everyone, going to start slowly, but am sure I will have plenty of queries about which way up the mop goes! Fenix down (talk) 12:13, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Depends on what you are using it for :)—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 24, 2015; 13:09 (UTC)
  • Well done. Ronhjones  (Talk) 20:28, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Congratulations! It is great for en.wiki to have an admin like you. FkpCascais (talk) 00:45, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Congratulations. --Tito Dutta (talk) 03:54, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Congratulations

I missed your RfA nom, but I see you passed :) Big congratulations, great having good editors as Admins, especially at WP:FOOTY :) JMHamo (talk) 23:53, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Admin: userpage lacking category, userbox or topicon

Hello Fenix down; even though that your RFA passed, but I noticed that you haven't put in a category (which is Wikipedia administrators) for your userpage or used a topicon or userbox to show that you are an admin, like Materialscientist does. I would recommend that you do so, like other admins often do. Snowager-Talk to Me! 05:50, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Gyanendra Armed Police Force.gif

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Thanks for uploading File:Gyanendra Armed Police Force.gif. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 00:31, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Tribhuvan Army Club Logo.gif

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Thanks for uploading File:Tribhuvan Army Club Logo.gif. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 01:19, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Vorskla Supporters

Hello Fenix down I saw that you deleted part of the article I added (Vorskla: Supporters & Rivalries). I really do not understand this and I think people will be interested because Vorskla involved in European competition (especially for the fans of opposing teams). Waiting for answer. Орест Гармата (talk) 8:30, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Orest, I removed that element because it was unreferenced. Feel free to add it back if you can provide reliable sources. Fenix down (talk) 07:44, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Olimpic stats

Hi,

I've noticed you have been deleting rather big portions of Olimpic's article. Seeing as information about the club in comparison to other clubs in the country(and even the region) is scarce and needs to be documented fast before it is lost or forgotten, I consider this to be very disruptive and is obstructing the improvement of the article. Rather than doing that, I would request that you help out by suggesting what changes ought to be made, so as to not be deemed to be disruptive editing. And I would request that you help build the article, I can do research on your behalf if you are willing to be constructive. The notable players list; please specify a good criterion or several that ought to be fulfilled, so that we can bring the list back and revise it. The cup match; as far as needs go, this is the first time I hear that "reason" so I would like you to provide some kind of list of official criterions where "need" is specified, defined and elaborated on. Otherwise it depends on what you consider a "need" to be, hence I would say that we shouldn't argue about such a thing but rather about significance. And therefore, since that was the milestone of a match which brought the team to European competitions for the first time in their 22 year long history, it is very significant who played, who the opponent was, what the result was, who the coaches were, who the referees were, who scored the goals, who got yellow and/or red cards and so on. Also, I have tried on several occasions to make the background of the logo transparent but it has only resulted in alleged copyright infringements or something like that while other clubs have been able to get their logos up without those issues, so I would request that you help out with that too. In conclusion: please don't remove any more sections, but fix them instead if there is a problem. Azrail Kabir (talk) 14:34, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi, so a number of points on your comments:
  • - It's not really disruptive to remove content from an article when providing a clear rationale in the edit summary. To immediately jump on any editors removal of content you yourself have added with cries of "disruption" and "obstruction" is hardly conducive to good relations, it doesnt really assume good faith, and it is behaviour that leans somewhat towards owning, which is not desirable either.
  • - with regards to your comment that information about the club is scarce and needs to be documented fast before it is lost or forgotten, I would point you towards WP:VALINFO. Although this is about arguments not to use in deletion discussion, you might wish to consider how this applies to removal of content within an article. Simply because there is information out there on a subject that is not documented on WP is not a reason in itself to be included.
  • - To provide some detail on why this section should not be included, firstly I would point you towards WP:NOTSTATS. WP is not a statistical archive. This specifically notes that Long and sprawling lists of statistics may be confusing to readers and reduce the readability and neatness of our articles. In addition, articles should contain sufficient explanatory text to put statistics within the article in their proper context for a general reader. To my mind this is particularly relevant because:
  • The section on the cup final is significantly longer than any other section in the article and, although this is undoubtedly an important match in the club's history, it is important not to overbalance the article and in my view, the addition of all of the line ups and stats does do this. A more appropriate place for this would probably be here, with a hatnote along the lines of {{see also|2014–15_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina_Football_Cup#Final{{!}}2014–15 Bosnia and Herzegovina Football Cup Final}} where all of the stats could be contained (I note there is nowhere near this level of detail in the cup article in the first place).
  • Additionally, this section is very confusing to readers to my mind. When reading what you had written, it was only at the very end of the section that I got an inkling that this was not a one-legged match. I am not sure what you are trying to show in the line ups and so forth. Why would you only show the second leg of a cup final? That doesn't make any sense to me. The absence of any explanatory text does not help either, though to add any would further imbalance the article.
  • - You might also want to have a look at WP:RECENT which contains comments about unnecessary weighting of articles towards recent events. In your opinion this cup win is the most important victory in the clubs history, but if you consider things from a wider perspective, is there really a need in the club article for people to know who the fourth official was, what the time of the losing teams second substitution was or how many corners were taken in the first leg?
  • - regarding more minor points there are other elements you need to address:
  • The line up graphic is unsourced, are you saying that both teams played the same formation with no changes across both legs without any tactical change? Line ups like this need to be sourced to reliable references, simply slapping a line up graphic into an article because it looks good is not acceptable as it is essentially WP:OR to say "this is the line up that was used".
  • The match rules are unsourced, and as I noted above, not really relevant to the club.
  • The two paragraphs at the end are completely unsourced and sounds very much like your opinion rather than the view of reliable sources, particularly with phrases such as this trophy had significance to many who were involved in winning it. Nothing in this section should be added back without reference to reliable secondary sources per WP:V.
  • - Regarding the notable players section, firstly it is always preferable to discuss individuals in sourced prose in the history section of a club article than to have a sprawling list of players as a standalone section. You should always ask yourself if someone is not mentioned in the history section of the article whether they really are that notable and then, if they are what the need is to double up with a separate list. If you have to have a list then it must have clear inclusion criteria. Normally this would be something like played 100+league games, scored 50+ league goals, elected to official club hall of fame, etc. but there is no hard and fast rule. I would note though that many of those originally in the list do not have their own WP article. I would suggest, to avoid creating an overly long list that is of limited use to readers that only those that have their own article should be included.
  • - Finally, regarding the kits used, you should not be using kit graphics that have copyrighted logos on them as this is not in line with out fair use policy. Simply because you do not know how to edit these kits (and I do not either) is no reason for something to remain. By all means start a topic at WT:FOOTY, I am sure someone there will be able to help.
FkpCascais, you have a bit more knowledge about this area of football, and I note have edited this article, do you have any views to add?
I hope this is helpful, please feel free to ask any questions. Fenix down (talk) 07:44, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Azrail Kabir I think Fenix is right, and all his suggestions here will help you get FK Olimpic to good article status which is what you should be aiming since you are devoted to the article. This addition to the article was really an overkill. Fenixs suggestion of moving that content to 2014–15_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina_Football_Cup#Final is absolutely appropriate, so there is no fear of that info being forgotten. The club article should have the cup final mentioned in prose with a link as suggested by Fenix to the Cup article. Also, as Fenix noticed, the prose regarding the cup final doesn't have any sources, so instead of the adding the line-ups and match details, it would be more helpful if you could find sources (sportsport.ba for exemple, but there are others) that would source the facts you mention in prose about the cup final. About the list of former players, if included, it has to have some strict inclusion criterium. Fenix is an excellent editor regarding WP:MOS and his sugestions here will help you improve the article and make FK Olimpic possibly among the best club articles in Bosnian and regional football. FkpCascais (talk) 13:22, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

AFD and DRN

Your suggestion to take an issue to the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard that is already being discussed at Articles for Deletion clearly was meant to be constructive. Thank you for trying to help. However, DRN doesn't take issues that are already being discussed elsewhere. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:10, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I meant post-the AfD discussion if the closing decision was either keep / userfy and the editor in question was unhappy (as they seem to be) with the current version compared to historics. Sorry if that wasn't clear in my comment. Fenix down (talk) 16:13, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Rodman

Sorry, it has none of the attributes of a lead as defined in WP:LEAD. Just pointless - but I cant be bothered.Pwimageglow (talk) 16:30, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Please refresh your knowledge of WP:LEAD. It specifically states in its lead that The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies. The summary provided may not be perfect, but it provides an accessible introduction without undue emphasis on any one area per WP:MOSINTRO, it gives a neutral point of view and makes clear it is his footballing career which is to be discussed per WP:MOSBEGIN. Its not perfect, but it does the job, feel free to improve, but there is no need to remove. Fenix down (talk) 16:36, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
Please refresh your knowledge of WP:LEAD. Pointless duplication, not a lead. Pwimageglow (talk) 16:48, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

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Respectfully ask for a neutral opinion

Hi there, I noticed your well-thought-out and extremely comprehensive note on the AfD page, and I thought I would ask if you could weigh in on Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Maru_(cat). My concern is that such articles, when nominated for deletion, are so specialized and have such a hard-core "fanbase" of people that will do anything to keep their article in wikipedia, that it's difficult to get truly neutral opinions one way or the other. Since you appear to be truly neutral, I'd appreciate if you would weigh in. Thanks! Rockypedia (talk) 21:37, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi. I won't have wp access on anything other than phone until Monday potentially, so will have a look then if not sooner. Fenix down (talk) 21:21, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
II have added my views. Fenix down (talk) 08:02, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

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South Coast Wolves FC

Thanks for edit re: notable players. I was working up to editing through the list. Saved me the work. cheers. —Eccy89 (talk) 11:34, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Do add back if you can work out clear inclusion criteria for the list, that's the only reason I removed it, not because they shouldn't be there at all. Fenix down (talk) 11:36, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
I've been thinking about what really should constitute notable players. Obviously for top-tier teams around the globe (mainly Europe) they do not have this at all on their team pages. For these 'smaller' clubs there may be a case to include it and it would probably be internationals. We are still in the process of coming up with a consensus at WP FB/Australian task force. —Eccy89 (talk) 02:18, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
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