User talk:sroc/Archive 9

Please comment on Talk:Minority language

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Minority language. Legobot (talk) 00:06, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Biographies

Re this edit; the guideline you linked to looks like it explicitly deals with band names, not names and titles generally. But, as I explained, "The Edge" or "The Duke" are entire proper nouns - that is, "The Edge" is the nickname, although it is sometimes shortened to "Edge" (check out the Wikipedia article). Proper nouns and formal terms should absolutely be capitalised, even in the middle of sentences. Ironholds (talk) 01:52, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

@Ironholds: "The Duke", as in "the Duke of Edinburgh" for example, does not include the article within the proper noun. I might more accurately have referred to MOS:THECAPS, which says:

Do not ordinarily capitalize the definite article after the first word of a sentence; however, official names (for example, names of corporations and other entities) and some idiomatic expressions, including the titles of artistic works, should be quoted exactly according to common usage. Incorrect (generic): an article about The United Kingdom Correct (generic): an article about the United Kingdom

—sroc 💬 04:07, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Phillip is a weird case because he's a prince, but even he illustrates that 'The' is part of the title. Ironholds (talk) 14:26, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Here we are; MOS:JOBTITLES. Take a look at the "styles of nobility" sentence and examples at the end. Ironholds (talk) 19:45, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

@Ironholds:

• MOS:JOBTITLES gives the example: the Queen (not the Queen).
• List of titles and honours of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh says he was styled as: His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh (not His Royal Highness The Duke of Edinburgh).

—sroc 💬 20:08, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

And "Her Majesty, His Holiness". Forms of address in the United Kingdom is also a useful point of reference. Ironholds (talk) 20:54, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Not for the definite article "the". —sroc 💬 03:45, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

It looks like it covers those from where I sit :/. Ironholds (talk) 18:09, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

I disagree. MOS:THECAPS specifically applies to the capitalisation of the; this is supported by the above example in MOS:JOBTITLES. Comparisons with titles with Her or His are irrelevant and certainly cannot override guidelines specifically addressing the case of the. —sroc 💬 14:23, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Jr. comma RfC

You're invited to participate in the discussion at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#RfC:_Guidance_on_commas_before_Jr._and_Sr. Dohn joe (talk) 01:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Draft ANI

User:Tutelary/DraftANI Given that you commented on the initial discussion, would you mind telling me if I mischaracterized some things, went on some sort of tangent, or that some things I mentioned are unsupported? I've been to ANI before and generally, it can get hectic so it's essential to have all the ducks in a row. Tutelary (talk) 18:39, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

@Tutelary: I don't really know the process for AN/Is, but I've made a few revisions so that it is hopefully a little clearer for someone new to follow the issues. I don't necessarily endorse restoring RG's talk page access, but I agree that there is no obvious justification for blocking email access. I think it is pertinent to recognise that the reason for the IP's comment being deleted was another user having already asked that comments regarding the block be directed elsewhere. —sroc 💬 20:28, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Notice

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Issues_at_Rgloucester.27s_talk_page. Thank you. Tutelary (talk) 21:19, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Template talk:Infobox person

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Template talk:Infobox person. Legobot (talk) 00:07, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:List of most widely spoken languages (by number of countries)

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:List of most widely spoken languages (by number of countries). Legobot (talk) 00:02, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Brittany

hi, how are you? my name is Brittany! and I am really exited to make new friends... How old r u? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MiniGoon!:) (talk • contribs) 15:47, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Straw poll

Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Disambiguation_pages#Straw_poll_results - please correct as needed. —Swpb^talk 19:49, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan. Legobot (talk) 00:02, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Commas after King, Jr.'s name

Hi. The commas after King's name in his father's article make reading it more awkward (like this section would be the awkward "Commas after King, Jr.'s, name". I don't think the 'comma after another comma' guideline refers to Jr. and Sr. names, as in that case the comma is part of their proper name and not a stand-alone comma. Randy Kryn 1:14, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

As you know from our discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) § RfC: Guidance on commas after Jr. and Sr., as indicated by style guides, English punctuation requires a comma before be matched by a comma after. You say "I don't think the 'comma after another comma' guideline refers to Jr. and Sr. names" but these style guides specifically say it does:

Style guides on commas before and after Jr. and Sr.

Chicago Manual of Style—Jr., Sr., III: Q. John Smith Jr. or John Smith, Jr.? John Smith III or John Smith, III? A. Traditionally, it would be John Smith, Jr., and John Smith III. But beginning with the fourteenth edition of The Chicago Manual of Style (1993), the recommendation is to use no commas in either case (see paragraph 6.47 of the sixteenth edition): John Smith Jr. But please note that within text, if you decide to use the more traditional comma before Jr. or Sr., the function of the comma is to set off these abbreviations, so an additional comma is needed after the abbreviation if the sentence continues (as in my first sentence above). National Geographic Style Manual—Jr., Sr., III: Jr. and Sr. are preceded and followed by comma in full name: John M. Fahey, Jr. (left), went to... but John Jr. hurried... Grammar Book—Commas: Rule 8. Traditionally, if a person's name is followed by Sr. or Jr., a comma follows the last name: Martin Luther King, Jr. This comma is no longer considered mandatory. However, if a comma does precede Sr. or Jr., another comma must follow the entire name when it appears midsentence. Correct: Al Mooney Sr. is here. Correct: Al Mooney, Sr., is here. Incorrect: Al Mooney, Sr. is here. Daily Grammar—Lesson 341: Use a comma or commas to set off the abbreviations Jr., Sr., and Esq. Example: Carl Harris, Jr., is here now. Answers—Is there a comma after Jr or Sr?: A comma would be used both before and after then designations of "Jr." or "Sr.," as long as the sentence continues. If the designation is at the end of the sentence, then a comma is used only before it. For example: John James, Sr., was well regarded in the community. However, the community had no use for John James, Jr. Knox News—Grammar gremlins: Style for "Jr." and "Sr." varies: Sometimes the simplest point can cause us a problem when writing. For example, should "Jr." or "Sr." in a name be preceded by a comma? Some stylebooks say no, others say yes, but the "nos" outnumber the "yeses." However, those that specify no comma say you should follow the person's preference if you know it. A point to remember is, if you use a comma before either of these designations, you must use one after it.

—sroc 💬 01:31, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

There is no consensus on using it here, the discussion is still ongoing. By choosing the prominent King pages to "make your stand" (let's keep it a friendly stand) you seem to want to cause some disruption before a consensus is reached. Can we leave those comma-free for now? I can't revert you again on King Jr. so it seems like an unfair move on your part. boo, hiss, grumble, Randy Kryn 1:44, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

There is no consensus to omit the comma and failing basic English punctuation makes this encyclopedia look amateurish. You're taking as much a stand by reverting my edits without any valid rationale.

Also, do you realise your edit marked "consistency" restored a bunch of inconsistencies?

• "Martin Luther King, Jr. (January 15, 1929 – April 4, 1968), was ..." (comma before and after)
• "Martin Luther King, Sr. and ..." (comma before, not after)
• "Martin Jr., was ..." (comma after, not before)
• "... James L. Farmer Jr. of ..." (neither before nor after)
• "King Jr., Martin Luther ..." (no comma before "Jr.")

Now who's being inconsistent. You see how much trouble inserting the comma before "Jr."/"Sr." causes? —sroc 💬 01:55, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Derry

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Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships/Guidelines

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Please comment on Talk:New Mexican English

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums. Legobot (talk) 00:04, 3 July 2015 (UTC)