Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Howard Kippenberger

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article promoted Hawkeye7 (talk) 04:51, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Howard Kippenberger

Nominator(s): Zawed (talk)

I am nominating this article for A-Class review because I believe it meets the requirements of ACR, having gone through a GA review in November. And it sure would be nice to have an article on a New Zealand general amongst all the MilHist A-class biographies... I look forward to the feedback of the reviewers. Zawed (talk) 01:29, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

• Comments Support —Ed!^(talk) 18:56, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Early life: Any idea what his parents' names were or how many siblings he may have had?

Have added some more detail. Zawed (talk) 00:56, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

• • Greece and Crete: The unit is referred to interchangably as "10th Battalion" and "10 Battalion."

Have fixed. Zawed (talk) 00:56, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

• • "In April 1957, his wife's health deteriorated and she was hospitalised. " -- Is this the first mention of his being married?

No, she is mentioned in the civilian life section (1st paragraph). Have added extra material about her death to the article. Zawed (talk) 00:56, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

• • External link tool shows status issues with three links which might need to be altered.

I'm not entirely sure what needs to be altered here, I'm not familiar with the External link tool. I assume this relates to the stability of the webpages that I have cited? I have added archived urls for each (I had to change one as it looks like it is no longer available; more the reason to archive the links!). Zawed (talk) 00:56, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

• • Duplicate Link tool returns five results: Egypt; Battle of Crete; 21st Battalion (New Zealand); 23rd Battalion (New Zealand); 22nd Battalion (New Zealand)

Sorted these. Zawed (talk) 00:56, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

• • Dab links are fine. Images all appear to be licensed. So I just had a few small comments to address before supporting. —Ed!^(talk) 19:19, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to conduct a review Ed!, I have responded to your comments as above. Cheers. Zawed (talk) 00:56, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Support Comments: I made a few tweaks, please check you are happy with those and adjust as you see fit. I also have the following suggestions:

• consider adding alt text to the images [1];

Done. Zawed (talk) 23:43, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• inconsistency: "Major-General" v "major general"; and "lieutenant colonel" v. "Lieutenant-Colonel";

Hyphenated as appropriate, caps used when part of individual's title. Zawed (talk) 23:43, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

No worries, the hyphen was all that I was concerned about. The caps are fine. Sorry, I should have made that clearer. AustralianRupert (talk) 07:25, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

• "File:MG Kippenberger, 1946.jpg" probably needs its licence tweaked given the 1946 date. I think it is ok to use, but it probably needs the same licences as "File:Howard Karl Kippenberger, 1952.jpg". I'm not 100 per cent sure of this, though, so hopefuly Grandiose will be able to confirm or deny whether or not this is good advice;

Have added the cc 3.0 licence. Zawed (talk) 23:43, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I think that is right, but you probably need to add the bit about the Crown releasing the photos under that licence also. E.g. "The Crown has released this work under the CC-BY 3.0 unported license. Refer to source website for details: http://natlib.govt.nz/about-this-site/copyright-and-privacy. This work's copyright expired 50 years after creation in New Zealand and probably also in countries following the rule of the shorter term." AustralianRupert (talk) 07:25, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Whoops, will add that now. Thanks. Zawed (talk) 07:33, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

• where you use distances such as miles, etc. I suggest adding {{convert}} to assist readers that can't conceptualise these;

Done. Zawed (talk) 23:43, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• in the References, could page ranges and an ISBN be added for the Harper 2000a ref?
• in the References, could an ISBN be added for the Harper 2000b ref?
• in the References, could OCLC numbers be added for the McClymont, Mason and Pringle refs? These can usually be found at www.worldcat.org AustralianRupert (talk) 13:00, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, it is greatly appreciated. I have responded to your queries as above. All your suggestions regarding references have been attended to as well. Cheers. Zawed (talk) 23:43, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Comments This article is in good shape, and I found it to be an interesting read. I have the following comments:

• A red link for Territorial Force (New Zealand) (or Army Reserve (New Zealand) might be better thank linking to the NZ Army article

The link was to the Territorial section of that article, but it is in such poor shape that I have followed your suggestion of a redlink for the Territorials; Hmmm, I think I have a good resource for that article... Zawed (talk) 10:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

The Territorials: The History of the Territorial and Volunteer Forces of New Zealand by Peter Cooke and John Crawford is rather good in case that wasn't the book you're thinking of. Nick-D (talk) 08:54, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the one. Zawed (talk) 09:45, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• Watch out for passive voice like "He would remain in the front lines" and "whom he would marry in 1922" - this can be easily converted to more interesting active voice wording such as "He remained in the front lines" and "whom he married in 1922"

Yeah, I can be bad for that. Have gone through article and tweaked both what you noticed and some other text. Hopefully it is satisfactory. Zawed (talk) 10:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• Should Canterbury College be linked?

Done. Zawed (talk) 10:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• Should 10th Brigade and New Zealand Divisional Cavalry be linked?

10th Brigade was an adhoc unit that existed for only a few weeks, I don't think it warrants a link. I have linked the Div Cav.

OK, fair enough Nick-D (talk) 08:54, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• "On reaching Baggush, he met up with Freyberg, who extremely pleased to see him and promptly promoted Kippenberger to brigadier and command of the 5th Infantry Brigade on the spot." - what had happened the the commanded of the 5th Brigade?

Have clarified. Zawed (talk) 10:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• Should Queen Mary's Hospital be linked?

Done. Zawed (talk) 10:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• "This was an organisation formed to deal with the housing and welfare of the expected influx of New Zealand military personnel newly released from prisoner of war camps in Germany. " - this is a bit complex; how about something along the lines of "This organisation had been formed to arrange accommodation and other services for the New Zealand military personnel who were expected to be released from prisoner of war camps in Germany when the war concluded"

Revised as suggested. Zawed (talk) 10:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• Can anything be said about how Kippenberger's performance as editor of the official history is seen? (also, could this material be expanded given that it essentially covers his main activity during the last 12 years of his life)

Have added material from the Official History article and expanded further on some points. Zawed (talk) 10:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

• " Ruth, his wife, " - can this be replaced with "Ruth Kippenberger"?

Done.

• "as well as teaching of undergraduate students" - this is a bit awkward Nick-D (talk) 10:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Have rephrased.

Nick, thanks for reviewing this article and providing your feedback. I have responded to all of your comments, but let me know if anything else needs to be tweaked. Zawed (talk) 10:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

G'day, I just saw this now, but the link to Leslie Andrews doesn't seem right. It currently points to an American actress. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:39, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Yikes, that was a whoopise! Have fixed, thanks. Zawed (talk) 01:10, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support All my comments have now been addressed - great work with this article. Nick-D (talk) 08:54, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Nick. Zawed (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• CommentSupport
  • No dab links [2] (no action required).
  • External links check out [3] (no action required).
  • One of the images lacks Alt Text [4] so you might consider adding it for consistency (suggestion only - not an ACR requirement).

Done. Zawed (talk) 09:45, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• • The Citation Check Tool reveals a number of issues with reference consolidation:
    • Harper, 1997, pp. 124–125 (Multiple references contain the same content)
    • McGibbon, 2000, pp. 400–401 (Multiple references contain the same content)
    • Harper29 (Multiple references are using the same name)
    • Harper43 (Multiple references are using the same name)
    • McLean184 (Multiple references are using the same name)
    • Harper124 (Multiple references are using the same name)
    • Harper92 (Multiple references are using the same name)
    • McGibbon400 (Multiple references are using the same name)

These have been fixed. Zawed (talk) 09:45, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• • Image review completed above.
  • The Earwig Tool reveals no issues with copyright violations [5] (no action required).
  • This is a bit wordy IMO: "...where it underwent training more intense than previously experienced." Perhaps more simply: "where it underwent more intense training."

Fixed as per the obvious (in hindsight) suggestion. I don't why I chose such a wordy way of explaining the training! Zawed (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• • Not sure about this: "...mainly of artillery and Army Service Corps men (sans their heavy equipment)...", Service Corps was primarily transport so do you mean that the force lacked lack its heavy artillery or it trucks? Would this be more precise like this: "mainly of artillery (sans their heavy equipment) and Army Service Corps men..."

Checking the source again, my original wording is incorrect. According to Harper, the brigade did have two trucks and three artillery pieces which lacked sights. Have changed text to refer to lacking most of their heavy equipment and trucks. Zawed (talk) 09:45, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• • Missing word here: "who extremely pleased to see him and promptly promoted Kippenberger...", consider: "who was extremely pleased to see him and promptly promoted Kippenberger..."

Fixed. Zawed (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• • "It was only in Syria for two months before Panzer Army Afrika attacked into Libya...", what was? As this is a new section you should probably be specific.

Have rephrased. Zawed (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• • "failed to make it clear to the inexperienced commander of the 21st Battalion, Lieutenant-Colonel Allen...", do we know Allen's first name? If so it should be added per WP:SURNAME.

Yes, have added given name. Zawed (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• • "meaningful support until the intervention of Herbert Lumsden", what was Lumsden's rank? It should be added per WP:SURNAME.

Have added rank. Zawed (talk) 09:45, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• • This seems awkward to me: "to establish his headquarters as forward as possible...", perhaps: "to establish his headquarters as far forward as possible..." (nitpick - suggestion only)

I agree. Have amended as per your suggestion.

• • Typo here I think: "Despite this, he still lost contact with the leading the 23rd Battalion..."

Has been fixed by AustralianRupert (no worries AR, happens to the best of us ;). Zawed (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• • "He did not return to command of the 5th Brigade until November...", consider more simply: "He did not return to command the 5th Brigade until November..."

Done. Zawed (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• • Rank needs to be included here: "When the corps commander, Miles Dempsey..."

Have added rank. Zawed (talk) 09:45, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• • "he triggered a land mine which exploded, destroying one foot entirely." The word "destroying" seems a little out of place here to me (sounds like machinery being damaged). Perhaps consider rewording?

have replaced with "severing". Zawed (talk) 09:45, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually, having thought about it, have reworded some more. Zawed (talk) 09:53, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• • This seems a bit repetitive: "By the following October, the overwhelming majority of released New Zealand personnel had been returned to New Zealand, negating the need for the Reception Group." Specifically use of "New Zealand" twice in the same sentence. I wonder if something like this would be more economical but still say the same thing: "By the following October, the overwhelming majority of released personnel had been returned to New Zealand, negating the need for the Reception Group."

Done. Zawed (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• • "...an account of his war time service...", should be "wartime".

Done. Zawed (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• • Slightly repetitive: "It was a work that began in 1944, as he worked with the Reception Group and it was largely complete by late 1946." Consider "It was a work that began in 1944, as he worked with the Reception Group and was largely complete by late 1946."

Done. Zawed (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• • Missing word here: "He also intended write one or two volumes..."

Have slightly revised this section of text. Zawed (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

• • Otherwise this is a good article about a very interesting character. Happy to discuss any of the points above. Anotherclown (talk) 12:12, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Anotherclown. I have attended to some of your comments as noted above. I will get to the others tomorrow.

Have now attended to remaining comments and suggestions. Thanks again for the feedback. Zawed (talk) 09:45, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Gday again Zawed, those changes look good to me. All my comments have been addressed so I've added my support now. Excellent work once again (its good to see some high quality Kiwi content being added as this seems to have been a neglected area for a while). Anotherclown (talk) 23:13, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Comments.

• I was working this one when it was promoted, so I'll add my comments to the archived page:
• "A serious wound in November 1916 saw him repatriated": "saw" is sometimes used in this sense, but it's not the best use of the word. It's better when a time period is the subject of the sentence, for instance: "The 1950s saw an upsurge ..."
• "He led the battalion for two years, through the Battles of Greece and Crete as well as part of the North African Campaign before being promoted": If you begin a parenthetical comment with a comma, then end it with a comma as well unless there's already some punctuation there. A comma is needed after "Campaign" here.
• "He was wounded on 3 March during the Battle of Cassino when he stepped on a land mine. As a result of his wounds, he lost both his feet.": It's not a big deal because you don't overuse cause-and-effect words, but see WP:Checklist#because. I'd probably go with: "He lost both his feet after stepping on a land mine on 3 March during the Battle of Cassino."
• "Editor-in-Chief": Judgment call, but it's generally best to lowercase if you can get away with it, and you can, here.
• "Intellectually advanced for his age, he was not academically challenged at school and misbehaved in class. This, together with a low attendance rate, led to the school authorities asking him to leave high school.": As a rule-of-thumb, think about whether it works to rewrite a sentence that stats with "This" (despite the fact that copy editors start sentences that way all the time :). I'd go with: "Intellectually advanced for his age, he was not academically challenged at school. The school asked him to leave because of his misbehaviour and low attendance rate." - Dank (push to talk) 17:59, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.