Talk:Alan Shearer/Archive 1

Newcastle, NOT Northumberland

I have changed Shearer's place of birth details to indicate that he was born in Newcastle Upon tyne, NOT Northumberland. Northumberland itself is a few miles from Gosforth, and Gosforth is regarded as being part of Newcastle Upon Tyne, I should know, I live here myself. Check Gosforth's article if you don't believe me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.72.35.70 (talk) 15:18, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Untitled

year of death? somebody has been mixing things up here

One of the best shots ever,

     A true inspiration
           Tom + Mo

I rate him as England's best ever centre-forward to date (yes, even above Rooney and Owen). I'm suprised no one mentioning Shearer breaking Jackie Milburn's record to become newcatsle's highest scoring forward ever though. Ondog 04:41, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, it is highly debatable rating Alan Shearer as Englands's best ever centre-forward. There were better players than him in the 1950s and 1960s who played for England. However, Shearer is definitely one of the best centre-forwards England has ever produced and perhaps the best ever player to play for Newcastle. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 16:41, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Infobox

Do we keep the player infobox even though they've retired? Mark272 15:44, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

The template says to use infobox2 for retired players. So I'd change it over to that for now. - Motor (talk) 16:03, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Done. Mark272 10:40, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Country of birth

Some people are changing it to United Kingdom rather than England. Which is correct, if any? Mark272 14:30, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

United Kingdom is correct: England isn't actually a country, in terms of "celebrity X was born in country Y". However, in terms of football, FIFA does consider it so (AIUI), so when talking in terms of "celebrity X played for his native Y" you'd say England. Does that make sense? fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 14:41, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

The division between Eng/Sco/Wa/NI is sharp (and heated!) in football... so I'd go with England. If nothing else, Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen, Rio Ferdinand and David Beckham all use England (and those were the first ones I checked). It might be worth asking on the template talk page if you want a more authoritative answer though. - Motor (talk)

There shouldn't be a debate, he was born in England. Someone born in Sweden don't say they were born in Scandanavia. Alright, so it isn't exactly the same situation, but you get my point.

Correction: England IS a country. However, two parts of the UK (namely Wales and Scotland) are currently its only commonwealths. England, however, like NI, IS indeed its own country due to its founding of the UK itself (and NI entering much later on). i.e. the UK comprises Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but England is its own country. Besides, I'd never call myself 'British' - no way! English by the Grace of God! - Tom —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.69.84 (talk) 18:50, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Weasle Words

Saying that Shearer is "widely regarded as one of the greatest strikers in the history of the game" is a use of weasel words (see WP:AWW). I would suggest instead saying that he has been recognized with the honours of Footballer of the Year or the PFA Players' Player of the Year. Or mention that he was on the FIFA 100. I don't feel qualified to choose the best way of stating his qualifications; I've put a weasel tag in for that but it really isn't that big of a thing to change. 68.40.58.88 19:30, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Same user, forgot to sign on last time. There's another one under Blackburn and England saying "had arguably their greatest game as a partnership." Who argues this? When did they say it? Is it just a couple of fans in England? Then it isn't wikipedia material. Simply put context in. Crito2161 19:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Creosote to garden fence

Not looking for an edit here, can someone just explain why him celebrating this way is weird? Forgive me, i don't even know what creosote is.

As in, what is the back-story of this event?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.178.33.100 (talk • contribs) .

Not true

After winning the Premiership, a myth arose that Shearer "celebrated" the title by going home and applying creosote to his garden fence.

He drove home, ran upstairs, threw his wife on the bed and ....hoovered where she'd been standing.

caretaker manager

i think that it's right to mention that shearer was joint caretaker manager of newcastle alongside glenn roeder from february to the summer. opinions?--Scott w 20:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Where is Gosforth?

ok originally i thought i was in the no on this topic and it was a part of Newcastle (WHICH IT IS), so why does this article say he's from Gosforth instead of Newcastle, shouldn't the article say Newcastle instead of going into tiny detail about this? if your going to go into detail, find out exactly where beardo and whatnot are from LUKE OUTCrabman123 19:15, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Middle name

User:80.41.18.121 has added a middle name of "Samuel". I am unable to verify this from any other source. Is this a fact? Daemonic Kangaroo 07:00, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe it is crap. See [1] RCS 08:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Nicknames

"The Lion Of Gosforth", "Big Al", "Wor Al", "Legend", "The Worlds Greatest", "Big Bad Al", "The Goal Machine" - Are all these for real or is someone getting carried away? Daemonic Kangaroo 16:22, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

lol. I think these three: "Legend", "The Worlds Greatest" and "Big Bad Al"... although they are all very appropriate, are not commonly used as nicknames for Shearer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.125.237.118 (talk) 08:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

"The Goal Machine" MUST feature as one of his nicknames. He was often if not constantly referred to as that during his days at Blackburn Rovers. The part of his career that basically made him! - Matt

Height

Different sources have slight variations on his height. Soccerbase[2] gives 6 ft 0 in whereas footballdatabase[3] gives 180 cm (which equates to approx 5 ft 11 in). My reference book agrees with the latter at 5 ft 11 in. Can any one give a definitive answer? Daemonic Kangaroo 18:18, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I see we have a joker

I note that someone has added a jokey section stating Alan Shearer may be gay on this webpage. I have tried to remove this section as I'm sure his wife and kids wouldn't agree, but this section seems to be hidden. Can anyone save Alan's reputation and remove this. It's above the section THE FUTURE. Mick4839 13:53, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Wife and Kids? as did Barrymore mate.. [unsigned]

Another Joker?

i see someone has put that alan shearer regrets not joining man u because he could have won more trophies! i think you will find that shearer has never said this and that he has actually said that although people pelieve it was the wrong decision he did things "my way". IZutam 19:02, 11 March 2007 (UTC)iZutam 11/03/2007ouch

"Balls of Steel"

Is this really relevent in the life of Alan Shearer?...

On an episode of Channel 4's hidden-camera prank show Balls of Steel, broadcast on 9 March 2007,The Annoying Devil was shown illuminating The Angel of the North at night with the phrase "Shearer is a Gay". It was later revealed that The Annoying Devil is a Middlesbrough fan.

A moment of idiocy on some lower-end TV show is hardly relevent to Alan Shearer's encyclopedia entry. If it has to be on Wikipedia anywhere it should be on the shows own article. - The Daddy 17:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment about Rooney and Ronaldo world cup comment

What shearer actually said was "I think there's every chance that Wayne Rooney could go back to the Manchester United training ground and stick one on Ronaldo because he hasn't helped him there" I don't interpret that as encouraging Rooney to "stick one on" Ronaldo, it's merely a prediction that he might. I just think this part of the article has twisted what he said to make out he encourages acts of violence.

International goals section

I'm guessing Score means the half-time score. It's not very clear. - Dudesleeper · Talk 10:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

• No - this would be the score in the game as a result of his goal, if you know what I mean. Thus in the Luxembourg game, he scored three goals (25, 26 & 27). Daemonic Kangaroo 10:36, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

So what does the 2-0 in the Luxembourg row represent? - Dudesleeper · Talk 12:15, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

It depends on which Luxembourg game you mean - For goal 22, he scored the second of England's three goals. For the other, he scored the first, second and fourth of England's six goals. Clear now?  ;-) Daemonic Kangaroo 12:31, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, the summer heat's getting to me. Didn't see the other Luxembourg games first time around. That aside, there has to be a different way of presenting that information. I doubt I'll be the only person confused by it. - Dudesleeper · Talk 12:34, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Barclaycard merit award

I removed a line of text about this - "He was also awarded the Barclaycard Merit Award in 2002 for scoring his landmark 200th Premiership goal, against Charlton at St James' Park on 20 April 2002.". There seems to be a mistake in this as the BBC reports Bobby Robson as winning it that year. Iain99^{Balderdash and piffle} 10:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Intertoto Cup

Alan Shearer was not involved in Newcastle 2001 Intertoto Cup defeat to Troyes as he was injured for all of the games at the time. Also in reference to the Barclays Merit Award Shearer recieved one after the Charlton game, Bobby Robson also recieved one at the actual awards ceremony. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.66.175.71 (talk) 20:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Shearer's Total League Goals is 261

This article showed that Shearer scored a total of 260 goals. This is not correct. The discrepancy was in the number of goals scored in the 2001/2002 season. The table indicated the total number of goals was 23, but he in fact (according to the Newcastle United official site which lists all Shearers goals(http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/ShearerGoalDetail/0,,10278~757279,00.html)) he in fact scored 24. The official Premier League website (http://www.premierleague.com/page/Statistics/0,,12306,00.html) confirms that Shearer scored 261 goals in his career, including 24 in 2001/2002.

Interestingly, the total number of goals scored in the season (27 goals) is accurate.

I have edited the page to reflect the correct information.Nickpullar (talk) 17:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

As far as I can see, the arithmetic is wrong. If you look at the 2001-02 results at [4], Shearer did score 27 goals in total but 4 of those were cup goals; 2 vs. Ipswich & 1 each vs. Palace and Peterborough. Thus, his league goals in 2001-02 were 23, not 24. This ties up with the totals at Soccerbase and www. allfootballers.com. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 20:31, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

There seems to be a problem with the stats at the Premier League website which clearly has Shearer as joint top scorer for 2001-02 with 24 goals, so I guess some more research is needed. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 07:41, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Premierleague.com has inaccurate totals for most of the top 10 Premiership goal-scorers. The sporting books section at any WH Smith's will have several reference works that state the record is 260 goals. Catchpole (talk) 17:14, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Violent conduct

Shearer was banned for violent conduct a few times and many players who went up against him complained about him leading with his elbow in challenges. Should this not be mentioned in the article?

When was he banned for violent conduct "a few times" as you say? He only ever got 2 red cards, one was rescinded and the other (from Rennie against Villa in 99) is widely regarded as being nonsense. I'm not saying he was an angel on the pitch, he liked to rough it up a bit, but he rarely took outside the laws of the game and certainly wasn't banned "on several occasions". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.201.138.238 (talk) 19:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Photo From Newcastle Section

Please don't use this photo as illustration and please stop adding it back.

As mentioned in the editing area it is not a representative picture. I have seen this photo added here before and it was deleted on numerous occasions because it is a photo of Shearer after missing an important penalty against Sunderland (Newcastle's local rivals).

I see we have a prankster claiming to be an NUFC fan who took this photo himself. But I'm guessing this is someone trying to "take the piss" and get this photo up there. This is a press photo, proof of this is that you can find the photo in Gettyimages' gallery.

Please do not undo its deletion, thank you. - MattM4

Thanks for finally explaining. - Dudesleeper / Talk 11:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to remove this photo, irrespective of who added it and why. If you don't think the photo is appropriate for wikipedia it should be deleted itself at the unwanted image desk. Simply removing it because you don't like it isn't on, there are precious few photos on wiki as it is, and it is a photo of Alan Shearer. MickMacNee (talk) 12:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Two points: I don't want it deleted just because I don't like it, but because it isn't representative or "encyclopedic" at all. Plus this photo is NOT of private ownership as it claims to be. It is a known press photograph and therefore doesnt clear copyright anyway. - MattM4

Of course it is representative, it is a photo of Alan Shearer, unless it is your assertion he never missed a penalty - no photo can be removed on these vanity reasons. If it is of disputed origin, you need to file it at WP:PUI. I am reinstating it pending conclusion of the proper procedure for deleting disputed images. Do not remove it again, doing so will be treated as vandalism. MickMacNee (talk) 14:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I've listed the image for deletion under copyright violation. As Matt stated, the image is owned by Getty Images (see here). - Dudesleeper / Talk 15:10, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Good find. My general points still stand though, this isn't the way to remove images, the infringing image would have remained on wikipedia, still in violation. It's wierd how the small one is of worse quality then the original though, a sophisticated attempt or just a bad conversion? MickMacNee (talk) 15:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Did you read my initial post Mick?? I listed it as belonging to Getty it's clearly a cropped version of the original AND couldnt have been taken from the stand listed in the description anyway. Dudesleeper was clever enough to look it up himself. My claim for it to be removed is valid for at least one of the reasons I cited. Why could you not acknowledge that? My other reason also stands and is not a vanity driven exercise. That specific photo was added in the sole purpose of spite AND it was removed in the past by Wiki people for the very same reasons! It isnt a random photo that would be representative it's of one specific event that is supposed to resume his whole tenure at Newcastle? Ridiculous. I'm glad Dudeslessper recognised the points I was making and didn't straight away assume I was trolling. MattM4

Neither here nor there, complaints that it is a bad photo because it is of a particlar event etc just do not stand up, that is absolutely not how it is done here, and the defence that others did it aswell don't hold much sway either. If it wasn't a copyvio problem, removal on these grounds would be a clear cut case of WP:IDON'TLIKEIT. It's a photo of Shearer, the article is about Shearer, end of. And as I said above, removing it from the article is not how we deal with copy infringements, so I am perfectly justified to revert. If you don't know how to do it yourself, you should have posted the info here without removing it. By simply removing it, wikipedia remains in violation of copyright. MickMacNee (talk) 16:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I put forward the fact the photo is in copyright infringement and lay into me, a fellow editor points it out to you again, and it's "nice find!". Double standards. The fact others have removed it in the past DOES stand as it shows that for one reason or another it was in violation. Why is the photo still there if it has been established to be in violation? As long as it's gone I don't care how or why. MattM4

It's a nice find because Getty Images must have a million pics of Shearer. It is not yet established to be in violation, follow the links on the page for the procedure, it can/will be deleted when that process completes. It doesn't matter if a hundred people make the same edit if it has no grounds in policy, or common sense. Anyway, I'm not going to repeat the previous points, that's my last word, I'm done here. MickMacNee (talk) 17:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Career statistics

What's with the constant changing of this section? It is now missing subtotals, for example total appearances and goals for Southampton. There used to be that line in the previous version of the table, now it's gone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MattM4 (talk • contribs) 14:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

So no one fancies totalling up the sections? Plus I think there are a few mistakes in there. I would if I knew how the tables worked on here. Have updated the site though: http://pagesperso-orange.fr/shearerm4/stats.shtml so it might be able to be used as a guideline. - MattM4 (talk) 14:22, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm leaving it alone since nobody seems able to agree on the correct totals. - Dudesleeper / Talk 00:35, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I've now amended the table to include the club by club totals and to fix various errors. The table now agrees to both www.allfootballers.com and soccerbase. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 05:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Nice one. Thanks for adding the sub totals. I added a goal you were missing (from Rovers 93-94 FA Cup). It's now perfect as far as I know. Only thing missing are the 8 games and 5 goals he managed in the Full Members Cup for Southampton, should they be in there somewhere? MattM4 (talk) 20:56, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Pics

Was just wondering if anyone had any uncopyrighted pictures of the great man...??

It would help the page's presentation a fair bit. Besides, it makes me feel sick to look at other footballers on here who are no where near the calibre he set in the division!

Cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.69.84 (talk) 18:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

How did that photo of the Testimonial banner not clear by the way?

Wasn't it taken from a random person on the day? Was it because it was seen as a photo of a promotional poster or something? Or was it taken from a journo, therefore copyrighted? Because I have personal photos of that banner myself. MattM4 (talk) 12:10, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the problem lay with the fact that the uploader was claiming it as their own work, when in actuality, the poster itself wasn't their own work. - Dudesleeper / Talk 19:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

As part of a general attempt to get the article up to at least WP:GA status, are there any user-taken photos of the Big Man out there that people feel like uploading? It would really help the article. - Toon⁰⁵ 15:51, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Here are a few cropped photos that I have personally taken:

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/4854/wikial5ut7.jpg

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/3576/wikial1uv7.jpg

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/3638/wikial2nt0.jpg

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/2613/wikial3jr4.jpg

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/8895/wikial4hn3.jpg

I think they are all rather poor, but might be better than nothing. MattM4 (talk) 22:34, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

They aren't bad; we could certainly use number 4 as the main pic, perhaps number 5 in the Newcastle section near the testimonial stuff? There is a copyright issue with 2 which has come up before however so we can't use it, see here. - Toon⁰⁵ 22:58, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I've sent a request to use an image on flickr. Buc (talk) 15:02, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Goal celebration

Shearer says he doesn't know how his goal celebration started. [5] Imagine Reason (talk) 00:05, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

That's rather random. - Dudesleeper / Talk 01:15, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Alan Shearer/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review. GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

---

This article is in decent shape, but it needs more work before it becomes a Good Article.

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   Well done.

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

   In the lead, it would be best if "BBC" be linked once, per here. In the Newcastle United (1996-2006) section, "Kenny Dalglish", "Newcastle United", and "Sunderland" are linked twice. Same section, "Red Devils" does not need to be italicized, per here.

   Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   In Television career and commercial roles section, the reference, after this sentence "Following the club takeover by Mike Ashley, it is unclear if this role has any official status", needs to be fixed to the {{cite web}} format.

   Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   Does Reference 1 cover this ---> "Born in 1970, Shearer grew up in Gosforth, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. During his early footballing career he helped a successful Newcastle City Schools side win a 7-a-side tournament at St. James' Park before joining Wallsend Boys Club. It was at the Wallsend club he was scouted by Southampton F.C.'s Jack Hixon, and ended up spending most of his summers training with the Southampton youth team. Shearer had unsuccessful trials for West Bromwich Albion, Manchester City and Newcastle United (where he notoriously played in goal), before being offered a youth contract with Chris Nicholl's Saints in April 1986" and this ---> "At the age of 17 years and 240 days, he became the youngest player to score a hat-trick in top-flight football, breaking the record held for more than thirty years by Jimmy Greaves"? Question: In the Blackburn Rovers (1992–1996) section, "EURO 1992" is "EURO" suppose to be capitalized? Same section, is there a source for this ---> "He also won the honour of the Football Writers' Footballer of the Year for that season. England had failed to reach the 1994 World Cup finals at the end of the campaign, but Shearer added three more goals to his England tally before embarking on his most successful domestic season as a player to date"? Does Reference 3 cover all this ---> "In 1995–96, despite Blackburn having a disappointing season, finishing only seventh in the league, he scored 31 goals in 35 games. He missed the final three games of the season due to injury, but recovered in time for England's much anticipated European Championship campaign. Blackburn crashed out in the group stage of the Champions League, finishing bottom of their group. Shearer's only goal in 6 full Champions League games was a penalty in a meaningless 4–1 victory against Rosenborg in the last game. Shearer's England strike rate had also completely dried up, with no goals in the eleven matches leading up to Euro 96"? In the International career section, is there a source for this ---> "Shearer played only intermittently in the qualifying campaign for the 1994 FIFA World Cup due to injury, and his absence was reflected in the team's failure to reach the competition"? Same section, is there a source for this ---> "England faced Argentina in the second round: Shearer scored a first-half penalty in a match decided in a penalty shoot-out after a 2–2 draw. Shearer scored again, but colleagues Paul Ince and David Batty missed, and England were eliminated. This was the only time Shearer played in a World Cup Finals tournament"? In the Television career and commercial roles, a source is needed for this ---> "Shearer also performs a promotional role for his former personal sponsor Adidas".

   Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

   In the Newcastle United (1996-2006) section, this ---> "Shearer did not disappoint in his first season at Newcastle", sounds like POV and might have be re-written.

   Check. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

   It would help if an image can be inserted to the article, so it can illustrate the significance of it. But, if an image can't be found, I won't fail the article because of that.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   If the statements above can be answered, I will pass the article. Good luck with improving this article! Also, contact me if the above statements are answered.

--  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 16:29, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

First of all, thanks for taking time to review the article, and for some excellent feedback.

1B

• I've fixed the double links issue and italics

2A

• I removed the text in question, as it was just a google search and the sentence doesn't really apply any more.

2B

• Removed the Jimmy Greeves bit, as I can't find a source for it; but source 1 covers the rest of it.
• Added refs per requests, checked that all others are included in existing references; removed some stuff I couldn't find a ref for

4

• Changed the pov bit to "Shearer maintained his form after moving to the north-east", which reflects the upcoming section in a more neutral manner (hopefully)

6

• With regard to images - I've searched high and low, on commons, flickr for licensed pics, but no luck whatsoever. I have made some requests to some people on flickr, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It's a shame really,cause there are a lot of pics out there, just not licensed properly.
  • Don't worry about it, I can't fail the article if it doesn't have an image, per the criteria. --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Hopefully this satisfies all of the problems, but if I've missed anything I should be able to get it cleaned up pretty quickly! - Toon⁰⁵ 21:10, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you to Toon05 for getting the stuff I left at the talk page, because I have gone off and placed the article as GA. Congrats. ;) --  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 21:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Personal Life information

After the mention in the FAC review and on my talk page, there's some basic info about Shearer's personal life from his autobiography, My Illustrated Career:

• Married to Lainya (no mention of maiden name), originally from Southampton, who he met during his time with the club, married 8 June 1991 at St. James' Church in Soton.
• Kids (3): Son: Will (youngest), 2 daughters:Chloe; Holly

The ref for this is <ref name=MIC/> - Toon⁰⁵ 19:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:AlanShearerBanner.jpg listed for deletion

An image being used in this article, Image:AlanShearerBanner.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. MickMacNee (talk) 00:07, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

422 goals

422 goals for club and country? Really? Will someone verify this? -Jack —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.43.216.178 (talk) 00:59, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeap. I spent a lot of time double checking all the data to make the stats page (here: http://pagesperso-orange.fr/shearerm4/stats.shtml). If you count the 13 goals he scored for England Under 21s, that's a career total of 422 goals scored in official matches. MattM4 (talk) 03:15, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

worst ever tackles.

alan shearer gets in to the top ten on every list. he was a dirty player and this is well documented . the article doesnt give this aspect of his play enough weight. he broke more than one of his opponants bones...Remember this incident... sums up Shearer for me...

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=337283&root=extratime&cc=5739 Alan Shearer: Newcastle United - Leicester City, April 1998

Never afraid to put himself about a bit, Shearer has such a reputation and standing in the game that critics often suggest he is let off too leniently when he does cross the line.

This unseemly incident would make a key piece of compelling evidence for their prosecution. The England captain had his shirt tugged by Neil Lennon as the two competed for a ball, they fell and then Shearer's boot made a close acquaintance with the prone Lennon's face as he got to his feet again. Accident or design? The TV pictures looked pretty conclusive. Shearer, involved in the breaking of Ramos Vega's nose earlier in the season, had stamped on Lennon's face. Now he was for it, surely, but the big man wasn't worried.

'I was brought down by Neil Lennon and we both fell clumsily,' Shearer explained afterwards.

'As I tried to get to my feet I had to really tug my left foot free and the momentum of doing this looked on television liked a kick.' Right you are. 'It certainly wasn't and the fact that Neil is virtually unmarked [Lennon walked off with blood dripping from his face] confirms this. If I did accidentally catch him, I certainly did not mean to. I would never try and deliberately hurt a fellow professional.' And that, apparently, was more than enough for the FA who found the Newcastle man innocent of all charges just days ahead of a Cup final meeting with Manchester United. Check out the link to see the 'accident' [[6]] (Off2riorob (talk) 00:17, 22 December 2008 (UTC))

and here he is ..[[7]] at number six in The 10 worst examples of footballers behaving badly.. (Off2riorob (talk) 00:17, 22 December 2008 (UTC))

Well now, we wouldn't want to avoid undue weight in the article. Shearer's physical style of play is mentioned in the "Style of Play" section:

"...his playing style sometimes brought him criticism; most commonly that his play was too physical, and that he used his elbows too aggressively: it was this which led to both of his sendings off, although one was rescinded."

and the Neil Lennon incident is in there too, in the "Newcastle United" section:

"An incident during a game against Leicester City in the league saw Shearer charged with misconduct by the FA,[30] with media sources claiming that video footage showed him intentionally kicking Neil Lennon in the head following a challenge.[31] The referee of the game took no action against Shearer, and he was then cleared of all charges by the FA, with Lennon giving evidence in the player's defence.[32] Former Football Association chief Graham Kelly, who brought the charges against the player, later claimed in his autobiography that Shearer had threatened to withdraw himself from the 1998 World Cup squad if the charges were upheld; a claim streuously denied by Shearer."

Obviously we aren't going to make the whole article about this, as there isn't much coverage in reliable sources to be honest; just the odd remark here and there. I wouldn't object to the Keith Gillespie incident being mentioned; the only reason it wasn't in before is that there hadn't been a source which proved it was more than just tabloid gossip! That's the beauty of Wikipedia, anyone can edit it! Although we must try to be neutral about everything - if yuo don't mind me saying so, you come across as having a slightly anti-Shearer bias here (or certainly a bit of cynicism), just as I (being a Shearer and Newcastle fan) undoubtedly have a pro-Shearer bias. Best, – Toon^(talk) 01:04, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Meh, doesn't take a genius to recognise the obvious bias/agenda whatever you want to call it. He says ""he broke more than one opponent's bones" did he? Over the course of a 20 year career of top flight football, I think Shearer "the bone-breaker" might have been mentioned more prominently. The article mentions the Lennon incident sufficiently as it is. MattM4 (talk) 11:40, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

what was the name of that guy who's nose he broke ? and as I recall there was a leg that he broke too ( someone elses ) I'll source some quotes .. at the moment you might as well put shearer the god at the top. the article is totally one sided. its common knowledge and widely quoted that he was a dirty aggressive player and I feel the article should represent that.I'll get some verifiable sources and put them in. (Off2riorob (talk) 12:08, 22 December 2008 (UTC))

User:Off2riorob's "more realistic reflection of unbiased opinion about shearer".

I've restored the version prior to Off2riorob's edits. This is for a variety of reasons; first off, the entry to the lede was copied directly from the source, and unquoted. A piece of such length does not belong in the lede anyway, which should be a summary of the whole article; giving one of five paragraphs to the opinion of one person is overkill and unbalanced. We also can't say that someone used "bullying tactics", it's completely opinion - to mention that we'd have to attribute it to whoever said it, not state it as fact.

The edits also mentioned several times that he won just one piece of silverware - that is already mentioned (pretty prominently) in the lead, there's no need to repeat it to skew the article negatively. "The striker turned down a move to Manchester United to join Newcastle and despite winning no silverware with the Magpies, he insists he has no regrets" has a definite negative slant to it; we have already mentioned that he won no silverware at Newcastle, and later in the article that he turned down a move to Man Utd - what he didn't do doesn't belong in the introduction.

As Jameboy stated in his edit summaries, the sources in the article also state that it was "strength" for which Shearer was noted; if you want to put "aggression", we are going to need it to be backed up by reliable sources, and for it to be mentioned alongside "strength". – Toon^(talk) 18:53, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Well put - I did revert his first edit, but he reverted me straight back, so I left it to Jameboy to deal with. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 19:18, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

the article is pretty clearly written by a fanatic and you are clearly attached to the article and have reverted every single edit I have tried to make it more balanced ..

I dont mind attributing comments to people and just didnt realise this was ness.. I will replace that quote and link later .. not in the lede.. them we can open a new seperate section on his english career. do you really disagree that he was an aggressive player? I would say that this was ness in the era that shearer played. i'm nominating the article pov. as you have stated are clearly are a fan..and you have reverted even the smallest alteration. I will source as many quotes as I can find and we can insert them all if you wish. your article would fit well on a fanatical site but here a balanced article is prefered .. regards ((Off2riorob (talk) 19:15, 29 January 2009 (UTC)))

Well, the article passed the Good Article evaluation process in pretty much its current state, so it's clearly not overtly biased. Perhaps you could take a step back and evaluate your own opinions on the subject; you clearly dislike him. – Toon^(talk) 19:18, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I do welcome a pov-check by someone neutral, and as WP:NPOV states, very sagely; "All editors and all sources have biases (in other words, all editors and all sources have a point of view) — what matters is how we combine them to create a neutral article". – Toon^(talk) 19:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't dislike alan it's just that I respect him for what he was .. which would be an old style centre forward who was as they say 'willing to get his hands dirty'

I imagine (correct me if i'm wrong)! there hasn't been any editing here apart from supporters of alan.I wouldn't say the article was overly biased .. more like a little one sided.. dont confuse me with someone who is a football fan .. I am here more accidentlly than fanatically and saw your article as a little one sided and a place to attempt a little editing.. but oh no you like your article one sided and wouldnt even allow me to change a single word of it would you((Off2riorob (talk) 19:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC)))

I also think it would be relevant to mention alan's penalty taking career.. like the fact that he has scored more penalties in the premier league than anyone ...56.. and some more for england and that he missed the penalty that caused newcastle not to go to the champion league final rounds.I have sources for these... I think it important to mention that a high proportion of his goal tally were penalties.((Off2riorob (talk) 12:09, 30 January 2009 (UTC)))

You were starting to sound sensible for a moment, but this last bit about penalties is back to sounding like rubbish. Yes, he was known for being an expert penalty taker but your fact about him having more Prem pens than anyone doesnt mean much at all seeing as he's scored more goals full stop (and by some margin). So OF COURSE his penalty tally will be higher than anyone else too. You come off as wanting to aggressively put an overly negative aspect on everything in here.

Also by bringing up this penalty talk, which just comes off as an attempt to put forward the idea that he didn't score that many goals that were really worthy of praise, you are characterising Shearer as a 30+ Newcastle player (when in his later years he scored more penalties)... when in fact he made a name for himself well before that, even well before joining Newcastle.

Finally, what's this about missing the penalty that would have qualified NUFC for the CL? I'm not even sure which one you're talking about here... Most likely you're referring to the shootout against Partizan in 2003 in which three Newcastle players missed and Shearer was the first taker, are you? Or maybe Wolves in 2004 when Newcastle were fighting for 4th spot with Liverpool and there was still 2 league games to go including a trip to Anfield? Obviously missing didn't help but in either case the direct link you are trying to establish is rather thin. I really don't understand where you're coming from MattM4 (talk) 14:12, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, his penalty tally was: Southampton 1 (out of 23 goals), Blackburn (19/112) and Newcastle (38/148) - thus of his 283 league goals, 58 were penalties (20.5%). Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 15:20, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't have a problem with his penalty numbers being discussed, it could go with the bit about his penalties in the Style of play section - I think it's quite interesting. – Toon^(talk) 15:25, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

yea me too..as far as I know and I remember sources that said and I agree he was a real good penalty taker.. and if you take the penalties away he still has the highest goal tally...I agree he scored the most while at newcastle.. at sunderland he wasn't the penalty taker.. later in his career for england and newcastle he insisted if he was in the team he took all penalties.although he did miss a couple of 'big' ones.. I need to check the links ...I sourced last night but I think it was partizan... ill check.. this is just to balance the article that he wasn't perfect and that although he got a lot of penalties he missed a couple of the important ones.

commercial role .. I also think it would round the article up to mention that the job he had in a management cappacity at newcastle was termnated by the owner...ashley....((Off2riorob (talk) 22:25, 30 January 2009 (UTC)))

I don't have a problem about facts being mentioned either, but there seems to be a willingness for there to be a negative slant on it. Consider this: out of the all time Prem top scorers how many spent their footballing upbringing, peaks and twilights in the League AND still maintained the role of number one penalty taker throughout? Shearer also often said that he didn't understand strikers who refused to take penalties (Andy Cole for example) because it was as good a chance as any of getting a goal. He was also always a confident volunteer when it came to penalties, be it in games or in shootouts MattM4 (talk) 22:31, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I think it would be best to avoid drawing any conclusions when we add content, just state the facts without a slant; the specific penalty misses should go in the club sections; the miss at St. James' against Partizan is mentioned in the Newcastle United (1996 – 2006) section: "Shearer was one of those who failed to score as the team were eliminated in a penalty shootout by Partizan Belgrade in the third qualifying round." - it's not like we are covering anything up. Mentioning it more than once would probably be undue weight in order to make a point; if Shearer was the only person on the team, it might be important to keep bringing it up, but it's not a big incident in a long career. – Toon^(talk) 22:50, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Your skills at copy pasting whole articles (see history of talk page) are undeniable Off2riorob but again you bring up events that are either mentioned in the article already or fall under coverage of the Style of Play section. What was your point? What about those articles do you want done? How about instead of just ranting about ideas and your "thoughts" you actually propose specific edits of the article or put forward what you think certain sections SHOULD say and post that here. Anyway, can we not get a ruling on this by now? MattM4 (talk) 18:51, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

ill thank you not to remove articles that I have placed here on the talk page for peoples comntemplation.although this only reflects your baised attidude towards the article... this is a talk page you dont need to defend it!I placed them here for people to see that the article is biased and written by fans of a shearer.I will place more articles as there are many.. to find... the truth is that a shearer was (outside of newcastle) considered to be a lazy goal hanger and an aggressive dirty player who thought nothing of injuring other players... and as far as his illustrious england career goes .. the quote that he threatened not to play if he was punished for attacking a lennon while he was on the floor was a reflection of his true nature.. you have removed the quote from his youth team coach that he was as a youth the most aggressive player he had seen. and I wouls also like the article to reflect that actually when the chips where down he was never there.. like the elbow on the keeper that cost us victory in the match against argentina and the important missed penalties.the article that you and the other couple of people guarding this biased article.. I would like whoever removed the articles to replace them they are examples of the other side of the coin to what you have portrayed in your article .. reads like a fanbase .. infact if you like I will like some toon fan sites that are equally as gushing as your article .. I have brough quotes that I would like reflected in the article and you just remove them (86.17.190.236 (talk) 22:39, 7 March 2009 (UTC))

I don't think anyone's reading what you write. - Dudesleeper / Talk 22:43, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think you may have shot yourself in the foot with that rant. Ironic that you seem to be showing far more bias than what you are accusing others of (eg. the BS that starts with "when the chips are down he was never there"...). Surely this might settle things now. Can we please get a final decision on either vindicating this guy now or getting the neutrality warning removed, thanks. MattM4 (talk) 23:56, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

hardly time for a decision! we're still working on the article. (86.17.190.236 (talk) 00:12, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

Have to say, his two recent edits to the article are rather good. His talk-page form is letting him down, though. - Dudesleeper / Talk 02:05, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Your insistence on adding the Argentina-Roa incident is funny I find and very representative of what you're trying to do overall. You seem to find it is the stand out moment of that game. As if he ruined everything for England that day. You seem to ignore the irony that if Shearer hadn't fouled or got in the way of the keeper, Campbell would never have got to the ball in the first place. Also funny how you made sure to crowbar the use of the word "elbowing". Plus if you want to go into that much detail I guess that you'll also be adding that because of Beckham's sending off Shearer had to play the rest of the game (that's from the 48th minute to the 120th) pretty much as a right back and gladly did so. MattM4 (talk) 02:13, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

PS: The stat is he scored 5 DIRECT Free Kicks for Newcastle. Add to that 9 indirect ones that's 14 overall for Newcastle alone. He scored a couple for England and probably a few for Rovers. It's hardly 5 in 20 years. Adding a mention of the 40 yellow cards is great but this was a silly edit. MattM4 (talk) 02:18, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

if we can find a comment anywhere that says he was any good at free kicks we can happily put it back. but on these grounds its a bit like saying as a footballer he had left and right feet (86.17.190.236 (talk) 03:52, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

I don't think we need a specific quote here to ascertain he was a feared free kick taker be it direct or indirect ones. And please keep your patronising analogies to yourself. MattM4 (talk) 04:40, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I personally would have prefered sol to have had less of a chance without the elbow. the dissalowed goal is not the stand out moment of the match but it is one worthy of a mention. as for the sol cambell goal in the argentina match the fact that he played at left back and for the whole match are not so relevent as the dissalowed goal..and you mentioned shearers goal and penalty ..so I thought it worthy of mention. I imagine there were a lot of other people that played all the game .. seven or eight others.(86.17.190.236 (talk) 03:52, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

free kick taker. I don't think to score from an indirect free kick you are taking it.. it would be that you headed someone elses free kick in. so on these statistics it would be impossible to say he was a feared free kick taker. (Off2riorob (talk) 04:49, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

You know very well what is meant isn't heading the ball in from someone else's free kick (you really think that tally would only come up at 14?). Shifting the ball to an alternate striker of the ball is just as valid a form of free kick taking known as the indirect free kick my good man. MattM4 (talk) 05:08, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

alan shearer was not at all famous or respected for his free kick taking abilities. he was well respected goalscorer but not from free kicks. take d beckham .. do you think he was well respected free kick taker? yes! and now who is well respected free kick taker at man u..? yes.. ronaldo. alan shearer was never ever respected as a good dangerous taker of free kicks . unless you can find a scource i'm takin it out. can you find me anything anywhere apart from your idea .. that says this? (Off2riorob (talk) 06:37, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

you can't say shearer scored 14 goals from set pieces its just not correct.. indirect free kick. The kick is taken from where the foul occurred, unless the offence was committed within the goal area of the team awarded the kick, in which case the kick may be taken from anywhere within the goal area. An indirect free kick within the opposing team's goal area is taken from the goal area line parallel to the goal line (i.e. at least 6 yards from the goal line).

The ball must be stationary prior to being kicked. Opponents must remain 10 yards (9.15m) from the ball (and also outside of the penalty area if the kick is taken from within the kicking team's penalty area) until the ball is in play. An exception to this is that opponents may be within 10 yards of the ball provided they are standing on their goal line between the goal posts.

The ball becomes in play as soon as it is touched, unless the kick was taken from within the kicking team's penalty area, in which case it is in play once it has passed completely out of the penalty area.

A goal may not be scored directly from an indirect free kick, rather it must be touched by a second player before a goal can be scored. If the ball goes in goal directly from an indirect free kick, a goal kick is awarded to the defending team. If the ball goes in own goal from an indirect free kick, a corner kick is awarded.

The referee signals that a free kick is indirect by raising one arm until the ball has been touched a second time or has gone out of play. (Off2riorob (talk) 06:42, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

Wow, I see little point fighting this as you are being deliberately awkward and pedantic. Silly comparison bringing up Beckham or Ronaldo... we're not talking of Shearer as one of the best FK takers ever like the two above, simply that he was an ABLE taker remember? I don't see how you can deny that. lol at Posting the definition of a free kick in here... get a grip man. You are just denying the obvious over a meaningless technicality simply out of spite. MattM4 (talk) 16:41, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

it's not a fight and I'm not spiteful...the comment you want to add is nonsense.. thats all.. look at it one more time ... the article looks better without it...the comment you want to add has no worth at all. without it the article is clearer and more concise.. with your idea you could also say he was good at corners..when there is nothing to really warrent this and it fails to improve the reflection of who alan was. free kick taking was not one of his real strengths was it.. if you want to add more try to think what his true values were.... I prefer simple and honest.. not fancy and floral. I feel that my few edits here are beneficial to the article but if you still want to debate it more then let me know! regards (Off2riorob (talk) 16:51, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

having been able to complete a few edits to the article in reference to alan's style of play and general aggresive style inc one aditional ref to use of elbows I feel the article is more balanced and I have removed the neutrality tag (Off2riorob (talk) 11:59, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

Finally please remove/amend the bit about him being sacked as NUFC ambassador: see [8] [9] [10] ... and many many more sources that deny this to being true and that his ambassador contract ran out in the summer of 2008. Again you're putting in stats and so called facts having never double checked them. MattM4 (talk) 16:54, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

if you want to add that this fact was disputed then go ahead and add it .. have you got a direct quote from the owner ashley denying it?(Off2riorob (talk) 17:10, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

See this is the kind of thing I mean. How come you are now insisting on direct quotes from Ashley? You never had them in the first place confirming the "sacking" yet it didn't stop you putting it in. Anyway YES there are quotes that are from official statements from the Club which is more than good enough (and probably also loosely equals Ashley anyway). We could include rumours of his sacking but I guess we should try to think of what the true value of it is (is it all only conjecture?). Probably best to stay simple and honest.. not fancy and floral, don't you think? MattM4 (talk) 17:16, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

there was quite obviously a falling out and keegan went . .. alan stuck up for him and ashley called him up ... the three quotes you have are all the same comment ...newcasle deny reports... nothing fron ashley ... you know one of the problems at newc is the exadurated influance of alan shearer. no one can take charge cos the supporters are all the time waiting for shearer... anyway go ahead and put the quote that newcasle deny it.. have you read this... HATCHET MAN: How shadow slayer Ashley's decision to cut Shearer out of Toon was the right move at the wrong time By Hatchet Man Last updated at 12:38 PM on 15th September 2008 Comments (0) Add to My Stories

On yer bike, son: Alan Shearer has been removed from his ambassadorial role at Newcastle

Mike Ashley, the reviled owner of Newcastle, has finally got a decision about the club right.

Removing Alan Shearer as a club ambassador could help shorten the shadow which the former striker casts over every managerial appointment at St James' Park from the safety of a television studio.

He has flirted with a position on the touchline since retiring from the game a couple of years - or three changes of boss - ago and used his popularity among fans to make the eventual choices look like afterthoughts. Yet Shearer has never appeared to be serious about taking charge and needed to be put in his place. The timing of his removal, however, is like many decisions of the Ashley regime: hopelessly misjudged, and the reasons for the departure leave the owner with no credit either.

He has stripped Shearer of the role because the pundit broke from his normal approach and got off the fence to suggest he didn't think Newcastle were being run sensibly.

and please tell me what is wrong with alan saying the correct thing ... so he spoke up and this idiot sacked him .. it wasnt a real job anyway... and ashley is a fool...its good that alan told him to get lost...(Off2riorob (talk) 17:29, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

I agree. The post was more honorary than anything else. Hard to see that he did anything on a day to day basis as ambassador. Yes there was obviously a falling out, but this is my whole point: You are insisting on putting your conjecture in while then insisting others have stone wall facts, figures and quotes to back things up (like the free kick thing again). You can't have it both ways. There are no quotes from Ashley or the club about him being sacked, end of. On YOUR OWN GROUNDS you had no right to put that in, but did anyway. MattM4 (talk) 17:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I personally agree with that was what happened ..so go ahead and put in your ...this was denied by newcastle and put a quote..its actually good for alan!if you like rewrite it to make the sacked seem less than sacked but .. I would like something left in about it .. it was widely reported and you have in the lede how alan is allways being linked to managerial roles and I think this appointment is relevant to that..(Off2riorob (talk) 17:46, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

it was rumoured that in alan's irrelivant position as ambassador to football at newcastle that ashley had sacked him over comments made by alan about the way the club was being run .. however this was denied by reports out of the newcastle press office .. however shearer has not been seen at the newcastle ground since then.... and no denial has been issued by shearer or ashley. (Off2riorob (talk) 17:51, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

I have rewritten that piece offering a more fair and less floral reflection. I hope you concord,. (Off2riorob (talk) 18:13, 8 March 2009 (UTC))

Wow, it seems to have kicked off here while I've been away. I've just added He also scored 14 goals from set-pieces for the north-east club, despite not being first-choice free-kick taker during most of his time at Newcastle. back - which is notably (and deliberately) missing anything about him being proficient at free-kick taking - that could well have been just my take on it when I wrote the section. The stat is correct, and doesn't say whether he was any good at free kicks or not, which should solve that particular issue. – Toon^(talk) 23:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

the free kick comment is irrelivent totally .. all players take free kick .. do you think that the number of goal he got from his free kicks is high or what .. I shall add stats if you like them! with your attitude you might as well put that he took corners and could pass the ball..(Off2riorob (talk) 17:18, 9 March 2009 (UTC))

So you are saying every single striker (maybe player even) in the game has taken and scored several free kicks? Please indeed provide that statistic! MattM4 (talk) 18:31, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

well I imagine that if you had a look at say.. the attackers or the regular penalty takers then yes! as I said yesterday .. alan was not known as a good free kick taker!and it is silly to want it there when its worthless... think of some well known free kick takers ...alan is just not one of them.. perhaps it is wanted there to fikk up the section ..I dont know why??? alan was well known for heading goals .. a real high percent at newcastle and a high percent of penalties.. penalties and so on..I have left it there as it now doesnt say that he was good or able or anything.. if you are good at stats go and have a look at some other prominant attackers and compare their stats.. personally I prefer the section without it..(Off2riorob (talk) 18:44, 9 March 2009 (UTC))

david beckham ..GOALS Man Utd Free Kicks 30 Open Play 54 Penalties 4 Total 88 England Free kicks 6 Open Play 2 Penalties 3 Total 11 with david you would wax lyrical about his very high percent of goals from free kicks 36 FROM 99 but you wouldnt bother to mention that he also scored 6 penalties . (Off2riorob (talk) 18:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC))

dear toon do you intend to rewrite all of my inserts and replace all my edits? are you the owner of the alan shearer page that you will not allow anyone else to touch . there is nowt wrong with the passage that you have totally rewritten .. if you saw spelling missie then just correct that and leave my passage alone or do you want me to start rewriting your passages.(Off2riorob (talk) 17:12, 9 March 2009 (UTC))

I have replaced sacked as that was what was reported (Off2riorob (talk) 17:08, 9 March 2009 (UTC))

Look, Rob, I do not, indeed own the article, I'm trying to keep the article in shape as a Good Article by following the Manual of Style, which is the guideline which covers how articles should be written as well as abide by neutral point of view. I've written or substantially contributed to three good articles, so I'm using what I know about how articles should be written to ensure that the stuff you write isn't violating any guidelines or removed entirely. Removing the word "controversial" is because that, clearly, is the opinion of people - not an actual fact. I really dislike the attitude you take when raising issues here; we have put in a lot of work to try and help the encyclopaedia (not just this article), so perhaps you could be less confrontational to volunteers. Telling me to "leave my passage alone" betrays your misunderstanding of WP:OWN - they are not your passages. Please take a look at some of the other good articles and featured articles and see if your point of view, or anything resembling it, is present in any of them. Cheers. – Toon^(talk) 01:40, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

dear toon. you did nnot only remove the word controversial . you rewrote the whole piece.. I have removed the word controversial .

I am also a volunteer .. my attitude when raising issues here is a reflection of the response I have received from the people guarding the article...I am sure for your many valued contributions to the wiki you will be awarded many stars in heaven. (Off2riorob (talk) 12:41, 10 March 2009 (UTC))

style of play ..adding statistics.. comparissons.

I just altered alans booking total to 59 from the bbc. an undue percentage of these booking are from his newcastle career? 82 percent of his totalcareer bookings were at newcastle. in an approx 20 year career he spent half of his time at newcastle .. when you compare his total to say that of ryan giggs who has I think a longer career ryan has only 34 bookings. (Off2riorob (talk) 19:21, 9 March 2009 (UTC))

irrelevant statistic... free kicks ....Wikipedia:Trivia_sections (Off2riorob (talk) 21:09, 9 March 2009 (UTC))

And? it isn't an irrelevant stat though, get over it. If you don't think Shearer was considered a threat for free kicks just around the penalty area then there's not much more to say because you are just being biased. The fact you're making out as if we are trying to compare him to Beckham just shows how absurd you are being. I'd say it has as much merit as mentioning the number of yellow cards he received. Speaking of which, also funny you bring up for comparison Giggs, a player known for his exemplary disciplinary record, and not an average player. Maybe you should have used Lineker even! MattM4 (talk) 22:04, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I am saying that it would be relevant and worthwhile in an article about a respected free kick taker but alan wasn't one of them. (Off2riorob (talk) 22:17, 9 March 2009 (UTC)) if you think about free kick takers of worth do you include alan?

No of course not. But luckily this isnt what this is. This is an article about HIM in a section about HIS "style of play" and the fact is he, on numerous occasions, took free kicks for any team he played with and scored a noticeable (not considerable) amount of them. I think the original term "able" was perfectly weighted as it didn't go too far in either direction and simply represented a reality. MattM4 (talk) 22:34, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't think what was it 2 percent of his goal at newcastle from free kicks is notable ..if as you say he took kicks on numerous occasions .. then was he actually the nominated taker? who was the nominated taker at newcastle in that time? can I also add that he was an able crosser of the ball ? for this I have found ref.? (Off2riorob (talk) 23:13, 9 March 2009 (UTC))

here is the crosser of the ball quote.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/4400600.stm Rob Lee on Shearer I look around at the centre-forwards today and I don't see anybody in the same type. He could do everything, especially in his younger years. He was quick, he could head it or hold it, scored goals and when he got wide there's probably not a better crosser David Beckham apart. wow! (Off2riorob (talk) 23:24, 9 March 2009 (UTC))

matt...ask yourself these q .. Frequency - How often the player scores from free kicks Importance - How important was the game the free kick was scored in Legacy - What impact did the player have on the game from his free kicks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Off2riorob (talk • contribs) 22:20, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

the comments in the lede refering to offers of employment linkink to old clubs..

have a read of this interesting article about shearers connection his old club.'Black Widow' Shearer answerable for Newcastle's demiseAlan Shearer's conduct over the course of this season has been cowardly and cruel, according to Michael Hann

Michael Hann guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 16 January 2008 11.52 GMT Article history

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jan/16/newsstory.newcastleunited3

I think if your gonna mention he is constantly linked to managerial positions there should be comments about the 3 or 4 positions at newcastle and other clubs that he has officially turned down so far. also some comments about his coaching badges ... how is it going with his UEFA_Pro_Licence_in_England?

Article comments

I started writing this in relation to points above, but as that meanders from subject to subject I wasn't sure where to put it I have started a new section instead, and added some more comments about other things.

• The free kick thing. An awful lot of debate for a single sentence. If you've scored more than 200 goals, you've probably scored using most of the available methods, so the odd free kick isn't surprising. The "despite not being first choice free kick taker" is laying it on a little thick, and the reference used does not mention 14 set piece goals, only the 5 direct free kicks.
• The most glaring omission in terms of criticism is his perceived lack of personality, such as the infamous "creosoting the fence" quote. this is a good source for material about his public image. No doubt there's also a plethora of sources out there bemoaning how dull his punditry is.
• The phrasing makes it sound like elbowing was responsible for all his yellow cards.
• IIRC his cruciate injury at Blackburn was initially thought to bring his career under threat. New surgical techniques meant Shearer was one of the first to make a full recovery from the injury; Paul Lake was forced to retire from one sustained two years earlier, Iain Durrant took 3 years to recover. Oldelpaso (talk) 10:37, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

thanks Oldelpaso for your well chosen comments.. I agree with you on the free kick point and I wonder if anyone still wants to keep it in? Perhaps Toon would like to add/enlarge on alan's perceived personality. I have removed the weighted expression about the elbows being responsible for the yellow cards.(Off2riorob (talk) 12:16, 10 March 2009 (UTC))

Cheers for taking a look, Oldelpaso.

• With regard to the free kicks, I do see your point - I just remember his ability at free kicks and the ones he scored, which has led me to write about it - I assumed that leaving out anything about him beiong an able free kick taker was a compromise, but I'm not too bothered about the last part coming out, it was only there to clarify, after all. We should mention the free kick goals IMO, as it's a part of his game, so should be mentioned. It's only a little sentence, too, it's not like it's undue weight!
• Perceived lack of personality is something that people do bandie about, although that source doesn't say anything about a lack of personality - instead takes a positive approach to Shearer in saying that he was an ordinary bloke who did extraordinary things - in fact, it views the creosote comment as "the remark of a man with at least some sense of irony and perspective, rare qualities in a footballer." - I don't think that you can write about someone's personality in an encyclopedia without having detailed info from people who actually knew him, and that would, of course, be their opinion - I'm not sure that you can make judgements about someone's "lack of personality" without looking at any positive comments people have about him. It's purely people's opinions, after all. His punditry is pretty shite, mind you, not sure how useful it is to say that in an encyclopaedia.
• The cruciate point is a good one, as it's frequently stated that his career was nearly ended by it, perhaps Off2riorob would like to add something about it?

Best, – Toon^(talk) 13:47, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• well I might later but right now I am working on enlarging the facts since he stopped playing football ..as the biography seemed to stop when he stopped playing football... does anyone have anything to contribute to this .. the official job offers that alan has turned down and the current situation with his uefa coaching badges?(Off2riorob (talk) 14:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC))
• also does anyone know who was the nominated free kick taker or if there even was one? (Off2riorob (talk) 14:25, 10 March 2009 (UTC))

At Newcastle? Well Laurent Robert was the main free-kick taker while he was at the club. Nobby Solano took a lot before that. There isn't much info about since he retired, understandably, as he's not in the limelight as much. There's probably stuff you can add about him officially taking himself out of the runniong for the Newcastle job, mind you. – Toon^(talk) 14:30, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

here are some of the official offers of employment he has refused ..was he also offered the portsmouth job? do you know his current status as a uefa coach?

• here is the refusal to blackburn...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1025830/Shearer-turns-Blackburn-approach-vacant-managers-job.html..
• and here is him turning down an offer of england coach...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1025830/Shearer-turns-Blackburn-approach-vacant-managers-job.html
• and here he is turning down a coaching job offer at newcastle...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/newcastle/3535392/Alan-Shearer-turns-down-Newcastle-job-Football.html?mobile=basic
• and here he is stating that he would be interested in competing with p ince for the blackburn job ..http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/blackburn/article4092754.ece

refusing offers of footballcoachng at england .. blackburn and newcastle.. (Off2riorob (talk) 14:45, 10 March 2009 (UTC))

I haven't been able to find any definitive articles about his coaching; the last I heard was he began taking them - here, he passed the PFA Level 3 here, but as for the UEFA ones, I guess you have to assume he hasn't completed them yet, or we'd have heard about it. Also, it's important to note that he was never actually offered managers jobs, but pulled out of the running before an offer was made. There ios still potential there for some pretty good expansion :) – Toon^(talk) 15:18, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

thanks for that and I notice that the offers of works are mostly covered in the article allready under coaching ...so on..

I found a link that said he has got the pro.and another comment on a chat that said he had it but his name is not on the wiki pro list.. so I wrote to the link asking him where he got the information from.. ill put the link for you to look at..(Off2riorob (talk)) —Preceding undated comment added 15:33, 10 March 2009 (UTC).

Coaching badges: was working for UEFA "B" as long ago as 2003 [11]. When Roeder took over in 2006 Shearer said he was "halfway through my A licence" (implying his B was done) [12] By Jan 08 he "has his coaching badges" [13], which judging by [14] means A and B. In October 2008 he said he didn't have the Pro but planned to do it [15]. Oldelpaso (talk) 15:40, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

here ..http://www.shearer9.com/ after ..enter ..biograbhy..after football..it states this.. After completing his UEFA Pro Licence course, he was strongly linked to a move back to Newcastle as part of Kevin Keegan's coaching staff when he arrived for his second managerial spell at the club in early 2008. Media speculation also surrounded him in the following months as soon as any domestic managerial spot became available: Blackburn Rovers, Southampton or Sheffield Wednesday.. I mailed hm asking where he got this from.(Off2riorob (talk) 15:50, 10 March 2009 (UTC))

After further review, it appears pretty clear he hasn't passed them yet. The info about him passing them was edited in June 08 following this article [16] and another one that I can't find right now. But there seems to be many articles stating the contrary since then and as recently as November 08. MattM4 (talk) 18:32, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

so could I say in the intro were it says shearerer is constantly being linked with managerial positions with his old clubs ... that although shearerer is as yet unqualified to manage a premier league team he is still often linked with such positions... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Off2riorob (talk • contribs) 20:03, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Well the problem with that is that they actually allow people to manage without the UEFA Pro licence, so he actually isn't unqualified. Look at Gareth Southgate when he was first manager - it's probably best not to mention it in the intro. If he did accept a PL job, the PL and FA would actually allow him to take it. – Toon^(talk) 02:04, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

well that is no longer true! .. and why would he want to do that when he seems to have had plenty of time to take the course..perhaps he doesn't really want to be a manager.. the other way in is ten years in the championship gets you a bye.. the Southgate clause is over and all have been given a final date of 2010 to qualify so alan is not even on the course and it takes over a year to qualify .. the next course won't start till 2010 so it will be at leastsome time 2011 b4 alan could have the certificate. imo it is better to start in the lower divisions to see if you are any good at it.. anyway .. just speculating .. no not for the lede perhaps in career after football .. perhaps its not really relevant .. just the other side of the coin if your going to include comments refering to all these supposed links to managerial positions..perhaps ill write to him asking him to clarify his position on these issues ..(Off2riorob (talk) 12:26, 11 March 2009 (UTC))

That is a personal interpretation and thus unsuitable for inclusion. In any case, it would be too minor a point to put in the lead. Oldelpaso (talk) 08:15, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Southgate has still for some reason not passed his pro licence and (did he fail it?) and he is currently running a good team down to the championship so that he will not need the pro! newcastle are also going the same way and then alan will not need it either...(Off2riorob (talk) 19:27, 11 March 2009 (UTC))

While I'm not bothered about such banter, those sort of comments are likely to antagonise Newcastle United fans who edit this article... ust a friendly warning :) – Toon^(talk) 01:12, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

ok.Southgate IS currently on the course and is expected to graduate this simmer ...no one has ever failed the course! (Off2riorob (talk) 11:05, 12 March 2009 (UTC))

the lede

I don't think this belongs in the lede.. the fact that he has been "linked" but never offered a real job as matt says..and the fact that he has not even enrolled on the training course that would qualify him for such a job makes this nothing more than propaganda! this...Following his retirement from football, Shearer continues to be regularly linked with managerial positions at his former clubs; but he currently works in the media with the BBC...... its rubbish really perhaps it would be better in the after football section... I want to remove the statement....Shearer continues to be regularly linked with managerial positions at his former clubs; and take it to the after football section... where it would sit better .. that would leave the reality of ........... ......... Following his retirement from football he currently works in the media with the BBC. As well as his media work, he has raised substantial amounts of money for various national and local charities, both within and outside of sports.(Off2riorob (talk) 20:19, 11 March 2009 (UTC))

Well I think at the time it was written, it was a relevant comment, as you can't deny that he has definitely been linked with many managerial vacancies - you listed loads that he turned down above. Whether it's still true is another thing entirely, as I haven't heard anything recently. Per WP:LEDE, the lead section should be a summary of the article as a whole, so nothing should be mentioned there which isn't said (in one way or another) in the rest of the article. – Toon^(talk) 01:16, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

perhaps I have been a bit hasty in removing this from the lede as I read on the lede page that the lead should also get the readers attention and encourage him to read the rest of the article and the gossip is exciting even if it is only gossip!.. what does anyone think .. is it good to replace it .. and it is mentioned in the article and it could also be enlarged on in the article ??(Off2riorob (talk) 11:03, 12 March 2009 (UTC))

Well gossip per se has no place in Wikipedia; but the above isn't really gossip when reported on by reliable sources. Tabloid newspapers are generally not good sources for that, as their stories aren't always fact-checked - take a look at this article. – Toon^(talk) 13:29, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

thanks.. yes a tabloid qoute perhaps needs looking at for extra verification.. I have changed my mind about the comment in the lede and replaced it .. It is mentioned later in the article with a couple of links...so it does add to the interest of the article and it is indeed more than gossip. sorry.. got a bit carried away. I think the article is more rounded now and has been well debated (Off2riorob (talk) 14:31, 12 March 2009 (UTC))

section .. coaching.

in this section which imo could do with expanding and rewriting... it states that alan is on the pro course ....alan has not as yet enrolled on the uefa pro licence course...(Off2riorob (talk) 21:13, 11 March 2009 (UTC))

I took that sentence out because the source doesn't mention Shearer, so we don't know whether he has enrolled or not - to assume either way in an article is original research; we need a reliable source to back up all assertions that get made in the article. – Toon^(talk) 01:21, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

thanks .I have replaced the sentence and inserted the link(Off2riorob (talk) 10:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC))

Excellent, that's a good reliable source. When you're making wikilinks, be sure to replace the _underscores_ with spaces, and put all inline citations after the nearest punctuation marks, per WP:INLINE. Best, – Toon^(talk) 13:24, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

May I say how good it is to see you guys working together! Cheers. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 13:36, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

cool! ta for the editing tips toon and thanks for your comments daemonic kangaroo .. as far as my contributions to the article goes .. all of my issues have been resolved so take care ..and best wishes (Off2riorob (talk) 14:36, 12 March 2009 (UTC))