Talk:Alvin Greene

Action figure idea?
The recently reported action figure idea may worth mentioning. -- Surv1v4l1st (Talk 01:22, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I worked the existing mention into the text. I don't know that this is a serious proposal that deserves consideration as a political position, but according to the Guardian source this is one of his "wacky" proposals that the media has treated as a "joke".  We have to be careful to avoid POV, but if it's true that his campaign is being met with derision and consternation, and that fact is sourceable and of due weight, we ought to cover that as non-judgmentally as possible.  - Wikidemon (talk) 07:11, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the addition. Indeed, part of the reason I put this on the talk page rather than directly into the article is it was/is somewhat difficult to determine how serious the proposal is from the news source alone.  Thanks. -- Surv1v4l1st (Talk 13:41, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It appears that Mr. Greene is absolutely serious about it, so it warrants a mention in the article even if the media coverage takes it less than seriously. JTRH (talk) 14:17, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems Alvin Greene is absolutely serious about his "little action figure" idea. He reaffirmed his idea to a Charlotte radio station. Reported by huffingtonpost.com: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/13/alvin-greenes-toy-talk-co_n_644459.html - Gwopy 02:26, 14 July 2010 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwopy (talk • contribs)
 * The latest gossipy news stories note that "Over the weekend, a story ran in the New York Times in which Greene revealed there was Hollywood interest in his story as a movie -- and that he wanted Denzel Washington to portray him if a movie was made." Forest Whitaker seems to me to be a better casting choice, but I suppose that's original research. Freakshownerd (talk) 14:58, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, if he is serious about the plan, then it needs to be presented that way in the article. Thanks for the additional sourcing. Surv1v4l1st (Talk 23:19, 15 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Have specifically added that he said "toys of me." This is a particularly telling statement from the candidate's own mouth.  Saebvn (talk) 18:23, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * His awkward phrasing indicates he's not a great traditional orator, is that your point? We already knew.  I don't think it adds anything to the article, but I would like to hear more opinions.  Anyone else?  Thundermaker (talk) 18:51, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Howling
Will this be covered? It's getting major reporting. 67.170.86.33 (talk) 02:39, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Of course this won't be covered - this page is being scrubbed by his campaign. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.75.72.100 (talk) 14:26, 11 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes yes, the massive Greene political machine controls all. It just now made me forget why the so-called "howling" was important.  Does anybody else remember?  Thundermaker (talk) 13:50, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Reason for military separation
See the records that were released to the AP here: Greene's military records If you look at the bottom of the document on page 3, that is Greene's DD-214 with reason and narrative for separation. Greene was separated under the provisions of Army Regulation 635-200, paragraph 5-17 which states, in part: "…separation under this paragraph on the basis of other physical or mental conditions not amounting to disability…Such conditions may include, but are not limited to— …Section 9: Other disorders manifesting disturbances of perception, thinking, emotional control or behavior sufficiently severe that the Soldier’s ability to effectively perform military duties is significantly impaired. Soldiers with 24 months or more of active duty service may be separated under this paragraph based on a diagnosis of personality disorder…"

Here is the regulation so one can read paragraph 5-17 in its entirety: Army Regulation 635-200

I'm not sure how the AP overlooked this, but this should actually be reported rather than "honorable but involuntary" discharge. Is this document enough to edit the article to reflect it? Atlantabravz (talk) 19:51, 20 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Is scribd.com a WP:RS? A couple of things about that page set of my bullshit detector.
 * Very professional-looking "AP has redacted" statement on the first page, but the redactions themselves are scribbly-looking, rather than the black boxes I would expect.
 * When I click the "Download" button, it tells me I need a Facebook account.
 * Even if we reach a consensus that the info is reliable, I think we should keep the "honorable but involuntary" phrase and add the regulation number stated on the form. Mentioning section 9 would be speculative.  Thundermaker (talk) 21:09, 20 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Scribd is described here. However, based on this: Biographies of living persons, we should wait until a third-party reports it rather than using the DD-214 as evidence on its face. The documents appear to be legitimate, especially since it was confirmed that the AP did receive released documents (that's how they got the "honorable but involuntary" to start with. And I can tell you that if that DD-214 is a forgery it's a damn good one. It even has the digital signatures on it. You are correct that using section 9 may be a stretch, but par. 5-17 is definitely what he was discharged under; again, we can wait until published. One bit of confusion is it has been stated that they are his "Air Force records," including on Scribd, when clearly they also have his Army separation documents in there as well. Atlantabravz (talk) 22:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * "Includes but not limited to" means it could be something not explicitly listed in that section. Furthermore, that section covers a wide variety of both physical and cognitive symptoms. Even if it's completely verifiable that his discharge came under that section, and that the documents are legitimate, it's completely speculative as to which symptoms he may have manifested. A "thinking" disorder (as it's called in the document) could be anything from a psychiatric issue to plain old stupidity. We don't know what it is, and it's highly irresponsible to speculate. JTRH (talk) 19:00, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Repetition repetition
Is the incident with McCoy considered such an important thing that it's said three times over, successively? That's how the article currently reads. Uncle G (talk) 09:36, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Alvin Image
Stop removing the Alvin Greene image from the article! I have an email from Keiana Page in South Carolyna Democratic Party, granting Wiki rights to use the picture under ShareAlike_3.0_Unported_License. I already posted it to Commons and the Alvin's picture was approved, but then someone keep deleting it. I can forward the copy of the email to registered Wiki users, if you really need the proof. Even if you do not like Alvin, he is still an interesting political fenomen, rasing very serious questions about America world highest incarceration rate affecting 2.3 millios of people in prisons, so he deserve his place in Wikipedia. Innab (talk) 19:53, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Political positions
Please explain why you think the incarceration chart is relevant to the Alvin Greene article. Thank you. JTRH (talk) 16:18, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

P.S. By the way, for comparison in 2006, the incarceration rate in England and Wales was 148 persons imprisoned per 100,000 residents; the rate for Norway was 66 inmates per 100,000 and the rate in New Zealand was 186 per 100,000. In Australia in 2005, the rate was 126 prisoners per 100,000 residents. In the Netherlands, the 2002 rate was 93 per 100,000 residents. Innab (talk) 17:32, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Because it illustrate the portion of the article "Political positions". The chart is totaly legimate and true. It was created based on US Bureau of Justice data and used before in other articles, so it add value to the "Alvin Greene" article. The article already has very few pictures, and someone keep removing Alvin photo, even so I have email from SCDP granting Wiki rights to use it. It is classified as vandalism to remove true data or pictures from Wiki articles. Even if you do not like Alvin, there is thousands of incarcerated Americans whos punishment does not fits the crime and they have no voice on Wiki. US incarceration rates per capita are highest in the world (754 persons in prison or jail per 100,000 (as of 2008) and very much comparable to ex-USSR Gulag average numbers, so please stop vandalising Alvin "Political positions" block.
 * How is any of what you just said related in any way to more than one sentence in this article? JTRH (talk) 17:54, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It's an impressive and disconcerting graph, but has too little to do with Greene to be included here. You (Innab) seem informed about and concerned with the incarceration issue; I'd suggest you work with articles more directly involved.  My personal rule is 1RR everywhere, but I wouldn't complain if someone whacked the chart again. PhGustaf (talk) 18:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * ok i took it out, since its presence made no sense. Badmachine (talk) 08:56, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * here is the only portion of the article that could be relevant:



"He strongly promoted idea of the reforms in judicial system to make sure that punishment fits the crime, i.e. that the severity of penalty for a misdeed or wrongdoing should be reasonable and proportionate to the severity of the infraction. He said that first-time non-violent offenders should have a chance to go into pre-trial intervention programs, instead of going to jail. “Fairness saves us money,” he said in an interview. “There are innocent people incarcerated. We spend more than two times of our taxpayer dollars on inmates than on students.”"however, the graph adds nothing to that. something Innab said above may reveal why he keeps re-inserting the graph: Even if you do not like Alvin. Innab, i do not think anyone here is removing that graph because of a personal dislike for him. the graph is not relevant, and that was my thought when i encountered it in this article. it is simply out of place. Badmachine (talk) 02:56, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * That quote about liking Alvin was from a paragraph about his official Democratic Party campaign photo, nothing to do with the graph. Thundermaker (talk) 06:16, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * i was referring to this "Even if you do not like Alvin". Badmachine (talk) 13:43, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, I guess Innab says that a lot. Never mind.  SNL brought back a Roseanne Roseannadanna-like character last weekend, who appeared on Saturday Night News spouting obviously-confused mashups of real news -- "Bedbugs were found in Paris Hilton's purse".  OK, embarrassing moment over, back to your inmate-chart discussion, on which I have no opinion.  Thundermaker (talk) 14:42, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * you may be thinking of Emily Litella. (: Badmachine (talk) 19:46, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * About the graph itself -- it appears that the incarceration rate increase is a little less steep after 2000, but this is the fault of the time scale axis. The data point for 2006 is incorrectly placed at the year 2010. If the x-axis showed the correct position for 2006, the slope of the curve would remain just as steep.81.32.146.86 (talk) 08:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Trimming down post-election
Most of the material in this article is no longer relevant since the election is over. The campaign coverage can be placed within the article on the election, and the personal information about him can be summarized in far less detail than what's in here. At the very least, the verb tenses need to be copy-edited and changed to past tense where appropriate. JTRH (talk) 13:44, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

"DeMint caused the recession"
There's a youtube video of Alvin Greene saying that "DeMint caused the recession" - talking about the GFC.

Why isn't there a section on this? DeMint didn't cause the recession. 0 economists think so. The recession was caused by many things, and one of them wasn't the way DeMint spent South Carolina's money. Is Greene really asserting that the way DeMint spent one state's taxes somehow has to do with faulty tranche ratings, 47:1 leverage ratios, huge amounts of non-systematic risk on bank's balance sheets and (debatably) low FED rates which caused misappropriation of funds towards CDOs and predatory lending (under the Austrian view). Are you ****** kidding me? First, why haven't the media absolutely crucified Greene? Secondly, why hasn't the Democtrat party condemned Greene for saying something that has 0 basis in fact? Downright lying to the most uneducated/brainwash-prone of South Carolina's voters (those that will accept the lie because they have no knowledge of economics or are simply fanatics of one party and will believe anything) isn't good for democracy or the political process.

Yours truly, An economist from Sydney, Australia. IP trace this post if you don't believe me. I have nothing to do with Republicans, Democrats, or South Carolina's politics. I have nothing to do with American politics whatsoever. I just felt utterly compelled to post this after watching this video. I was truly shocked. Literally, I didn't know what to think.

I've added: "Greene also appeared in a Youtube video of over 100,000 views wherein he repeatedly asserts that his political opponent, Jim Demint, was "responsible for the recession", in reference to the global financial crisis, and that it was Demint's expenditures that played a significant role in causing the recession. He asserts this despite the economic consensus to the contrary: that it was caused by events completely exogenous to the domestic fiscal expenditures of South Carolina."

I've read over 20 articles on the GFC, I am a macroeconomist by training, and as you can predict, one state's fiscal expenditures have literally ZERO to do with the causes of the global financial crisis. This is just ludicrous that I feel like I have to waste my time on this.

I weep for humanity. Someone that thinks that the way someone spent one state's money caused the global financial crisis of '07-'10 is actually running for US senate. Wow. Utterly flabberghasted.
 * Why? You can only seriously be flabbergast if you sincerely believe that the "mainstream" media in the US are dedicated to reporting facts, rather than dedicated to a definite political agenda.  96.41.245.37 (talk) 17:37, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Political positions
Please rewrite this section. There are too many "He supported..." without any transitions. It is very hard to read. --William S. Saturn (talk) 00:43, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Facetious Tone of Article
I did really enjoy some of the more humorous sentences but this article doesn't read like an encyclopedia article. It seems intentional. Although it also seems difficult to present some pieces of information in an artful way. The sentence about no economists believing Jim DeMint caused the recession is especially suspect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.196.60 (talk) 23:07, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, there's really no "artful" way to present the fact that a major party nominee for the U.S. Senate actually believed that his opponent was single-handedly responsible for the national economic crisis, and that absolutely no one with any recognized expertise in the subject could be found who shared this view. And those are documentable facts. JTRH (talk) 23:14, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I certainly agree that Alvin Greene made those statements and that no economists believe Jim DeMint caused the recession but neither of those are the problem. The article is worded to suggest that major economists at some point seriously had considered whether or not DeMint was responsible for the recession and then decided that he was not whereas in truth no serious economist ever considered the thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.196.60 (talk) 01:02, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's been reworded since you raised the issue. JTRH (talk) 01:58, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Running again
"...paid the $165 filing fee on Christmas Eve to run in a special election for the House seat left vacant by the death this month of Summerton Democrat Rep. Cathy Harvin."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/27/failed-senate-candidate-alvin-greene-trying-south-carolina-house-seat/?test=latestnews Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:48, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

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Merge with 2010 United States Senate election in South Carolina?
The way I see it, the Senate campaign is the only notable thing Greene has been involved in so we are free to apply BLP1E and merge into 2010 United States Senate election in South Carolina. We don't need a separate article for things like Greene being disoriented one night in 2013 or "unable to express thoughts clearly [better source needed]" in the Army. How about it? Haukur (talk) 10:15, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Support clearly a WP:BLP1E. The vast majority of the coverage is on the campaign and his further efforts went absolutely nowhere and would not be notable if they stood alone. SportingFlyer  T · C  15:15, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Support The article has no information on him after 2013.Inkan1969 (talk) 17:12, 19 March 2021 (UTC)