Talk:America's Next Top Model/Archive 2

Nicole Wasn't...
Nicole Wasn't 19 years old.She was 20 because at the first part of the show it said Nicole,20 years old.So actually no was the youngest winner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Npurplegirl (talk • contribs) 17:28, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi! Nicole was 19 when she won. Even though the show stated 20 (which I can't remember, probably its a show error), let's do the math shall we? Cycle 5 started airing in September 21 2005, while Nicole's birthday is February 27 1986 (go check her Wiki page). The show finished airing on December 7 2005, which is also the date that she was officially crowned "America's Next Top Model" to the whole American public. She has yet to cross her 20th birthday.

On a side note, Eva was 20 when she was crowned ANTM. Cycle 3 started on September 22 2004 and ended on December 15 2004, and Eva's birthday is October 30 1984, hence she crossed her 20th birthday while on the show.

HENCE, Nicole is still the youngest winner at the time of taping. Hope that I've cleared the issue once and for all. Cheers! ZephyrWind (talk) 08:27, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Problem under ANTM Crossovers
I can't edit the article because I'm not a registered user, but Janice's new show on the Oxygen network is called The Janice Dickinson Modeling Agency, not The Janice Dickinson Agency. Can someone please fix this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.182.113.90 (talk) 08:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

ANTM Call-out Table Colors
Hello. As we all know, each cycle page has its own call-out table representing the performances and merit of the contestants every week until ANTM is crowned. As we also know, the table's colors (representing the various girls' criteria) have been changed periodically by members of the public since the table's inception, so in order to settle the "dispute" once and for all, below are the colors which have been standardized across all 10 seasons of ANTM. If any new "criteria" should pop up over the next few cycles of the show, then new colors can be used as deemed correct. The bottom line: Don't change the existing ones.


 * The contestant won the reward (All Cycles)
 * The contestant was eliminated (All cycles)
 * The contestant won the competition (All cycles)
 * The contestant was CoverGirl of the Week (Cycles 3 to 10)
 * The contestant was CoverGirl of the Week and won the reward (Cycles 3 to 10)
 * The contestant was CoverGirl of the Week and was eliminated (Cycles 3, 7, 9 and 10)
 * The contestant did not participate in the photo shoot and was eliminated (Cycles 1, 2 and 7)
 * The contestant won the reward and was eliminated (Cycles 2, 6 and 10)
 * The contestant quit the competition (Cycles 5, 9 and 10)
 * The contestant did not participate in the photo shoot (Cycles 1 & 10)
 * The contestant was scouted at a separate audition and later added into the cast (Cycle 1)
 * The contestant was eliminated outside of the judging panel (Cycle 3)
 * The contestant was part of a non-elimination bottom two (Cycle 5)
 * The contestant was the original eliminee but was saved and won the reward (Cycle 9)

Cheers! ZephyrWind (talk) 09:10, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much! So if a person has been warned before and shown the link to this "guide", they can then be given a warning with a red cancel sign thing, right? Sireafi (talk) 03:26, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Haha, hmm I'm not very sure about that, maybe we can just ask them to read the discussions page. ZephyrWind (talk) 09:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I think that we sould check again everything.They change it so often. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ANTM120 (talk • contribs) 22:07, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Could someone please add it was also the CW's highest rated show in the 2007-2008 season as well, I have the evidence here  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.68.137.198 (talk) 23:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Now it is:


 * The contestant won the competition (All cycles)
 * The contestant was eliminated (All cycles)
 * The contestant won the reward challenge (All cycles)
 * The contestant was CoverGirl of the Week (Cycles 3 - 10)
 * The contestant was CoverGirl of the Week and won the reward challenge (Cycles 3 - 10)
 * The contestant was CoverGirl of the Week and eliminated (Cycles 3, 7, 9 & 10)
 * The contestant did not participate in the photo shoot and was eliminated (Cycles 1, 2 & 7)
 * The contestant won the reward challenge and was eliminated (Cycles 2, 6 & 10)
 * The contestant quit the competition (Cycles 5, 9 & 10)
 * The contestant did not participate in the photo shoot (Cycles 1 & 10)
 * The contestant was scouted at a separate audition and later added into the cast (Cycle 1)
 * The contestant was eliminated outside of judging panel (Cycle 3 & 11)
 * The contestant was part of a non-elimination bottom two (Cycle 5)
 * The contestant was the original eliminee but was saved, and won the reward challenge (Cycle 9) 86.147.236.191 (talk) 20:13, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * My only question is, why are the applicable cycles mention? I understand that the Cycle listed corresponds with the incident (obviously), but it's clear that it would apply to all cycles.  For example, if someone in Cycle 12 quit the competition, it would still be .  That wouldn't change.  Perhaps the first occurence can be listed, but I don't believe that the list has to be updated each time it changes happens. SKS2K6 (talk) 21:59, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * AgreedZephyrWind (talk) 10:39, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

In addition, a new color box royalblue is a contestant who win two reward challenges. Change to Blue And here it is:


 * The contestant won two reward challenges (Cycle 11) ApprenticeFan (talk) 08:13, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The blue box is too bright relative to the other colors, was there a reason for changing it from royalblue ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Misty Willows (talk • contribs) 18:25, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be a separate color box for the Runner Up, because technically, the Runner Up is never eliminated from the competition, but when the Winner is announced they automatically become the Runner Up. I dont think Lightblue should be useed I think a different color should be used like Magenta since it is a variant of the Violet —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.214.167.2 (talk) 00:38, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Lightblue is used which a contestant is the part of non-elimination bottom two and win the reward challenge. It is used in Britain's Next Top Model, Cycle 4 and Philippines' Next Top Model, Cycle 1. ApprenticeFan (talk) 02:55, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The reason was Pink was used as the contestant became runner-up in Australia's Next Top Model, Britain's Next Top Model and Canada's Next Top Model. Although it never used in ANTM. Runner-ups aren't eliminated in the finale like American Idol. ApprenticeFan (talk) 13:05, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Fantasy
This is probably as good a place as any to record the fantasy Top Model articles I have encountered. Looking at their modus operandi, there would appear to be a number of different editors producing this rubbish: -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 05:56, 9 January 2008 (UTC). Updated: 09:31, 16 March 2008 (UTC); 18:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC); 15:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC); 16:32, 30 June 2008 (UTC); 01:41, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * user:H&hellip; (indicated a desire to vanish so I will not give details) created Hawaii's Next Top Teen Male Model. Leaves copious, petulant talk page messages.
 * Bunifaaa (with Botanial as a sock puppet) created Botania's superstar, Cycle 1 and similar. Uses user page as index and for drafts. Does not talk.
 * Kamerzuidfan created Kamer Zuid, America's Extreme Top Model, etc. Does not talk. Probable sockpuppet:
 * Jamabanana21 created Americas next top extreme model.
 * Gex192000 created Ultimate Model 3 but appears to have seen sense and gone away.
 * Soulo 87 created Gaya's Next Top Student, Cohort 4, etc.
 * Jonanthan created Malaysia's Next Top Model (全马超级模特新秀大赛), etc. Seem to be fantasy even though I Wanna Be A Model, Malaysia is real.
 * Hoaxcoder90 created Malaysia's Next Top Model, Cycle 1, etc.
 * Sportsdevil765 created Top model extreme and Pokemon next top model.
 * Kiyochiiori created Creative arts next top model
 * Veekhtor created Finding The Best Top Model, etc.
 * Patrey14 created Patricklucien's Next Top Model
 * Nahtique created Wrestlings Next Top Model

Cycle 10's international destination
When is that going to be posted?

Ineversigninsodonotmessageme (talk) 21:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)Ineversigninsodonotmessageme


 * When it is released.Sireafi (talk) 03:16, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Plus-sized Models
There should be a stastic on which models were considered plus-sized since they are usually referred to as plus-sized during the competition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.106.94.27 (talk) 03:31, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Robin Manning (Cycle 1), Anna Bradfield (Cycle 2), Toccara Jones (Cycle 3), Diane Hernandez (Cycle 5), Whitney Cunningham & Diana Zalewski (Cycle 8), Sarah Hartshorne (Cycle 9) & Whitney Thompson (Cycle 10). ZephyrWind (talk) 11:15, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Many people say that Whitney was the only plus-size model who has gone abroad.But,that is not truth if Robin was actually a plus-size model.I'm confused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ANTM120 (talk • contribs) 22:10, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the "people" are wrong. Robin was the first to go abroad. Whitney was the first to enter the final 3 and win. ZephyrWind (talk) 04:42, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Jaslene's Weight
again and again somebody changes the statistics and it was CLEAR i think that Jaslene's weight was 110lbs...if it were 91lbs her BMI would be in the "starvation" range...so could we please turn it to 110 again? and stop changing it...cuz there is a source for her weight... Lucia (talk) 18:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

the winners stats section
hi! i'm not a member, so i can't make changes, but i noticed that some of the information about the winners is actually about contestants, not people who actually won. example: shandi was not the lightest winner, although she may have been the lightest contestant (i'm not sure, i haven't watched the whole series) 24.108.200.215 (talk) 21:50, 4 February 2008 (UTC)sarah eli
 * Thank you for your contribution, it has been fixed. If you really want to help, you an always make your own account. Thank you! [: Sireafi (talk) 23:08, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Exposed, Part I and II
Which cycle's page would this episode be put on, if any? Sireafi (talk) 23:09, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know.We can make a special thread or something like this,as they were special episodes.

Theme Composer Discrepancy
The opening paragraph states Darkchild. The info column states David Thomas and Les Pierce. Anyone know the actual composer?? SKS2K6 (talk) 04:09, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Inetnational destinations for Cycles 6 and 9?
I was just curious, on the main page how come Phuket isn't listed as being an international destination for Cycle 6? For Cycle 9 there is both Beijing AND Shangai... so why not Phuket and Bangkok as well? They may have only gone for one photoshoot but they still went, regardless. It had both a while back but it has since changed. I guess the same thing could also be said for Jamaica in Cycle 3 but that's another issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.241.218.165 (talk) 08:50, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ANTM120 (talk • contribs) 22:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

i disagree. in Cycle 9, the final 6 went to Shanghai and later the final 4 went to Beijing for the remainder of the season. in Cycle 6, the final 6 went to Bangkok, had 2 photoshoots and eliminations. Then the final 4 went to Phuket for a photoshoot then came back to Bangkok for that elimination, the remainder of the season and had their final fashion show in Bangkok as well.

List Of America's Next Top Model's International Destinations
Someone just created an article called List Of America's Next Top Model's International Destinations, which probably needs to be merged here. Does anyone know if the info there is already here or should a new section be added?--Mars2035 (talk) 17:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

The composite photo at the end of the show.
Hi. I was wondering if perhaps a short couple of lines talking about that photo at the end of the show featuring photos of all of the particular cycle's contestants, specifically, the fact that at the end of every show, the eliminated contestant's photo fades away from the  composite photo, plus the fact that it only changes after the makeover episode. I just thought that it's been happening for as long as I've been watching ANTM and it is a tradition. I would place it underneath the show format section at the end of the paragraph about the judging panel.. Just a thought. 00:06, 23 March 2008 (UTC) samusek2

Sections
I did some re-arranging of things, tell me what you think.

I don't understand why the bit about the writers' strike is here. The writer's strike held up a lot of shows... if anything, we could address its effect on ANTM in one line. Spacefem (talk) 14:30, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The writers strike references here is not the writers strike from earlier this year. It happened in 2006, and it was just the ANTM writers striking. Eatcacti (talk) 15:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I know really, this hsow makes MAD MONEY, and if it was the worst reality show then it would not be on it's 10th cycle —Preceding unsigned comment added by KZKfool (talk • contribs) 01:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Malaysia's Top Model?
Apparently, there's both I Wanna Be a Model and Malaysian Dreamgirl, but as far as I can tell, neither one of them are officially part of the Top Model franchise. Although many news articles describe these shows as their own version of ANTM, nothing states that it is an official version. Can anyone find out? SKS2K6 (talk) 17:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Neither of them are part of the Top Model franchise. They're just modeling shows. Keeping I Wanna Be a Model and Malaysian Dreamgirl there would be like keeping Make Me A Supermodel there. Sireafi (talk) 03:49, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

who wins americans next top model
i am deprate to know if anybody reads this pls tell me who wins —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.40.227 (talk) 10:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC) fatima might not win cycle 10 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bittersweetworld (talk • contribs) 21:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This is not a forum to talk about who gets kicked off, and Fatima winning or not winning ANTM is hearsay at this point. THE evil fluffyface (talk) 14:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

On Fatima not being a US citizen
My head hurts trying to even think about it, but I'm confused over whether Fatima not actually being a citizen of the United States is a controversy or not. Yes, she did come here as a refugee from Somalia, but she has been living here for seven years. It's not like Fatima hopped in a boat last year or so and somehow made it through customs to try to get to America and this show. The fact that the "controversy" is supported by four different threads from the CW's forums isn't swaying me to believe that it's that noteworthy of a controversy yet--not everyone who's a fan of America's Next Top Model uses the CW's forums. THE evil fluffyface (talk) 13:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Third Place
I noticed in the front page the names of the third place contestants have been removed. Is there a good reason? I would fix it myself but unfortunately I don't remember all of the last names. Argentak (talk) 00:10, 2 May 2008 (UTC)the names are elyse sewell,shandi sullivan,Amanda Swafford,Keenyah hill,Bre Scullark,Jade COle,Eugena Washington,Renee Almay,Jenah DOucette

Could someone stop unhighlighting Eugena's page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.111.36.35 (talk) 00:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * There's a very good reason why the third place contestants are not listed and it's been discussed before. Adding a third place is first and foremost unnecessary. Not many, if any, of the contestants have done anything major since the show. It makes the table larger than it has to be. There were even some doubts whether the runner-up should be there because only a few have done anything notable as well. Sireafi (talk) 03:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I have to disagree with you.As for the winners,they haven't also done anything special,most of them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ANTM120 (talk • contribs) 22:22, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Whether or not they have had any post-show success or not, just do not make another column for third place simply because it expands the table larger than it should be.ZephyrWind (talk) 04:48, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Flowery Makeovers
Flowery and extremely descriptive makeovers are not necessary. The bare minimum is needed. This means, don't add specific hair colors such as "jet black" or "platinum blonde"; but in some cases ie. Dominique with her dark and light brown hair or Sarah, cycle 8, with her light brown hair, that's when you add to the hair color. Also, turning 'weave' into 'hair weave' is not necessary. If it's makeovers and it has weave in there, its understood to be a hair weave. There are also differences between 'extensions' and 'weaves', so if you have any doubts about which, go watch the episode again on YouTube and listen to what Tyra says. In fact, if you have any doubts about how accurate a makeover is, discuss it on the discussion page and/or go watch the episode again on YouTube. Thanks.

Also, I think it's those who don't have accounts are the ones who are adding flowery makeovers. Sireafi (talk) 03:44, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. It's so frustrating to read that Naima got a bouffeant hair cut when Tyra Banks probably doesnt even know the word ZephyrWind (talk) 04:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

There is no mexico's top model. please remove.
mexico's next top model is listed under the international versions. i live in mexico city and the most depressing fact of life is there is no mexicos top model., and i really dont know why,. can someone tell me why?? but furthermore,. please remove the listing., it even has a citation., which takes you to an article which talks about america's next top model being on cable in mexico,. which im sorry., is just not quite the same thing,. the citation is bad,. the source is bad,. the truth,. is horrible....

thanks,.

La.linguista (talk) 06:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)la.linguista 26 mayo 2008

A small question about the "Winners" and "All Contestants" sections
Whitney Thompson (yay, Whitney!) is listed as the heaviest winner; this makes sense, as she is a full-figured model and also the heaviest of the winners. However, since she is the only full-figured model to win the competition so far, is it really necessary to have the category "Full figured winner" there as well? I would remove it, but I'm afraid of being sent hate mail.

Following that argument, is it okay to have a "Plus-Sized Contestants" or "Full-Figured Contestants" category under "All Contestants?"

And following that argument, out of curiosity, is it okay to have a "Lesbian/Bisexual Contesants" category, or is that too offensive and/or irrelevant? I saw one on this page briefly several months ago, but it was obviously removed.

Jhg812 (talk) 22:20, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Please don't. Already as it is, trivia sections are discouraged under Wikipedia and adding any more stuff that is not necessarily important or a determinant to the show would probalby be deleted. (You COULD try though, haha)ZephyrWind (talk) 11:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

"Originally from other countries" in statistics section
I do not think that this should be here. For one, there would be too much dispute. Brita is not from Latvia. But her family is. Nnenna was born in America yet raised in Nigeria. Lluvy is not listed and she is from Mexico and there are childhood photos of Brooke from C6 in Mexico with her mother. There are just too many different circumstances for a broad topic like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.241.221.167 (talk) 07:01, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

A few more questions about the "Winners" and "All Contestants" sections
Would it be O.K. to add call-out means and medians to both sections? I just added it to the "Winners" section, but I'm unsure if it would be applicable for the "All Contestants" section, since the mean and median are only tabulated for the top three contestants per cycle. If it is O.K., I have it already prepared here:
 * Lowest Mean Call-out (Top 3 Contestants): Anya Kop (Cycle 10), 2.64
 * Highest Mean Call-out (Top 3 Contestants): Eugena Washington (Cycle 7), 5.09
 * Lowest Median Call-out (Top 3 Contestants): Joanie Dodds (Cycle 6), Melrose Bickerstaff (Cycle 7), Natasha Galkina (Cycle 8), & Anya Kop (Cycle 10), all 2
 * Highest Median Call-out (Top 3 Contestants): Eugena Washington (Cycle 7), 5

Jhg812 (talk) 18:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess Cassandra Whitehead has the best call out average... Having been called 3rd in the 1st Photoshoot and and 1st in the 2nd Photoshoot making her average a 2.00. She then quit in the episode 4... 222.126.17.58 (talk) 11:50, 19 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Cassandra's average is 2.5, which beats 2.64. It doesn't really matter if she quit, her callout average is still 2.5, right? We should all vote. Anya (2.64) or Cassandra (2.5). Sireafi (talk) 06:10, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * No, it should still be Anya. Cassandra's average should be counted as (3 + 1 + 11)/3 = 5.0 ... The reason why I disagree with not including their final placements in the counting of contestants who quit, would be that we are disregarding all the girls who did better than them in the episode. For example, if we really go along the argument, it would be flawed. Then Kimberly Rydzewski of Cycle 10 would have the best callout mean of 0 since she quit in the very 1st episode.


 * And Joanie Dodds was NOT the first contestant to never be in the bottom 2, it would have been Magdalena Rivas because she was eliminated in the first episode OUTSIDE of the judging panel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.112.221.166 (talk) 15:02, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Cycle 11 Host
Why does it say that Eva Pigford is the host of Cycle 11?68.147.112.108 (talk) 21:55, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

It was some obsessed fan of Eva's. I removed it Kegzz (talk) 00:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Nik Pace
Why doesn't she have a page? All other runner-ups have one. I can create it if no one has a valid reason to oppose it ;)--Whadaheck (talk) 13:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I remember her page getting deleted simply because she fails to meet the notability requirements. As to why hers is deleted while the rest aren't, well, I don't know. I would argue that Kahlen Rondot is less notable than Nik, but at the same time, she has fewer sources backing up her notability.  SKS2K6 (talk) 15:54, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Really? Coz' there's quite a few sites that appear to support her notability when you google her name. She's on the fashion model directory, encyclocentral, fashionspot, coiffure virtuelle, sidewalks tv, flickr... She has been on some newspapers, magazines and shows, she has a big fanbase, all of this is in the notability policy right?--Whadaheck (talk) 16:10, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Becuase she is no longer a model according to her myspace she is an office cordinator —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.111.36.35 (talk) 17:34, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * She used to be an office coordinator but she is listed as signed with Model Fusion Management see here http://www.fashionmodeldirectory.com/models/Nik_Pace --Whadaheck (talk) 20:29, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Basically, the Wikipedia pages are just created by ardent fans of the characters. Just because she's signed to a modelling agency doesn't make her successful. Obviously when you google her name there'll be websites showing her, she was on a TV show! Having said this, I agree that Kahlen (by right) should be deleted too. As with Shannon Stewart, Joanie Dodds and Natasha Galkina, all of who are not successful post show. Come on, even Survivor who has 6 times more viewership than ANTM has less wiki pages for its contestants (by %). If you really wanna make it go ahead, but I really doubt it will last long. ZephyrWind (talk) 13:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Because her Wikipedia article is fully protected for recreation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.96.102.241 (talk) 23:47, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Translate!!!
Just wanna say this is a really good page, watching old episodes of ANTM every day and it's a great show. So my question is, I would like to translate this page to norwegian, is that possible? If so, where do I go from here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lene08 (talk • contribs) 09:42, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

ANTM Wikia
I have realized that very few people help on the ANTM Wikia. I've been trying to put on episodes and models, little by little but I really need help, even if it's just transwikiing? For the episodes make sure to list the bottom two, the girl after whom the episode was named, the guest judge(s), the challenge winner(s) and the eliminee(s). Thanks a lot to whoever helps.--Whadaheck (talk) 21:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi there! I've seen what you've done and I've tidied up Cycles 1 through 6. They're very well maintained now! Cycles 7 to 10 (the later cycles) are also very tidy now with all those info at the end of the episodes. Just some pointers: don't create a special title for "guest judge", just put him/her under "special guests". Another one: put 1st bottom two, then eliminated, then featured photographer (or commercial director), then special guests, and where applicable, CoverGirl of the Week. There is no need to say which girl the episode was named for.ZephyrWind (talk) 08:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Okidoki. I still feel that guest judges are important because they are among the people who send the contestants home, unlike the special guests... But here I was talking about the ANTM page at Wikia, about which almost nobody seems to care enough to put on articles...--Whadaheck (talk) 23:42, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Cycle 11 destination
So the source says Amsterdam. Erinb66 says New Zealand and keeps changing it to that even though the source says otherwise. Since I don't want to be in violation of WP:3RR, I'll leave it be...but can someone either find a source or change it back? Thanks. SKS2K6 (talk) 21:49, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi! Um, I don't have an account here, but I noticed that for " Winners with Most consecutive bottom two appearences", it says Eva Pigford, Danielle Evans, Whitney Thompson all 2 times. I know for a fact that it is more than two times, and I just wanted to point out. I don't know about the contestants thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.252.253.31 (talk) 21:52, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is only 2. It says "consecutive". If it were "collective", then yes it is more (for Whitney).ZephyrWind (talk) 13:46, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

WInners : statistics / All contestants: statistics
Please reconcile these two sections of the article regarding the most consecutive challenge wins and the most collective challenge wins. Under winners: statistics, it states that Naima Mora has the record for both at 4 wins but it is Yaya DaCosta who holds the record in both categories with 5 wins as stated correctly in the All contestants: statistics. Thank you! Original kenyan (talk) 09:07, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yaya did not win, though. Eva Pigford did.--69.112.221.166 (talk) 12:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

You are obviously clueless to what I'm talking about. Of course Eva Pigford won the ANTM title but Yaya correctly won the most consecutive and the most collective challenges as stated in the all contestants statistics section- not Naima Mora as stated in the winners statistics section. Somebody please do something. Original kenyan (talk) 08:10, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

No no, look at what the section is. Eva's is put under "Winners", hence all stats in that section is only comparing between winners. Yaya's is put under "all contestants", and is compared with all 129 girls in ANTM history. The placements of stats are correct. ZephyrWind (talk) 14:07, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Also in the most collective/consecutive Cover Girl wins overall, Heather only had 8 wins i thought i would throw in —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.62.145.161 (talk) 10:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Nope, she had 9. 8 while she was on the show and the last one the episode after she was eliminated.ZephyrWind (talk) 03:53, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

InterWiki
Please add the syntax vi:America's Next Top Model. Thanks a lot. Es.ntp (talk) 15:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I added it on the article few days ago. --ApprenticeFan (talk) 13:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Taiwan & Aruba
Does Taiwan & Aruba have the same shows as ANTM? I remember it was mentioned in the main article: International versions in the past. 58.186.244.69 (talk) 04:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Taiwan yes. Aruba no. It was a top model search not associated with the franchise.ZephyrWind (talk) 07:00, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

But why wasn't Taiwan mentioned in the International version? TanPhat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.186.245.29 (talk) 04:41, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments on the show
I think it would be interesting if people started telling us what they like about ANTM and what they don't.I'll start:

I think ANTM is a very interesting show. I like the challenges people have them do. I think the catfights between the girls get really boring after a while. They are really slow and not interesting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Natali masarskaya (talk • contribs) 13:46, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Lightest contestant: Mellrose Bickerstaff (Cycle 6), 101 lb (45 kg)
it is "melrose" and she was in "cycle 7" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Terrablue444 (talk • contribs) 03:06, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

You are right. Shandi was 115lbs on the show, so I think she's 106lbs post show. ANTMFanatic (talk) 16:15, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Afghanistan & Taiwan

 * Isn't Afghanistan a Top Model franchise?
 * Taiwan has an own show and it was mentioned in the International Version now. But why not now? Es.ntp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.68.60.104 (talk) 11:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Is this not controversy?
Why is there no mention in the controversy section over the fact that for the past two seasons there have been two contestants who do not meet the posted rules for entry: Fatima Siad (non-US citizen) and Isis Tsunami (pre-op transexual). The rules on the ANTM page clearly state that you have to be a US citizen and female. Do their own rules not apply?Atlantabravz (talk) 15:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you, Atlantabravz, about Fatima Siad. But in the case of Isis a transsexual woman is still a woman. It is perfectly possible for Isis to obtain a gender recognition certificate asserting her legal status as female so there is no reason for her to be automatically rejected from the show79.69.236.124 (talk) 20:10, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to add in then.ZephyrWind (talk) 06:33, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I began watching the show towards the end of cycle 10/premiere of cycle 11, so I went back to view cycle 10's history including episodes and photo clips. Imagine my surprise when I saw Isis "Tsunami" introduce herself during Cycle 10, episode 2 as Isis King, a fashion designer/consultant! She also stood in as a background model during their homeless photo shoot challenge; she's the second from the left in this photo. Isn't this the same violation of the rules which bars contestants from prior professional modeling that swirled around Saleisha Stowers in Cycle 9? That incident should pale in comparison, especially considering ANTM were active participants in Isis King's prior modeling work! 75.10.151.15 (talk) 04:55, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Whitney Thompson in fact "fluctuates between a size 8 and 10." http://www.usmagazine.com/Whitney-Thompson-Named-Americas-Next-Top-Model http://www.blogher.com/americas-next-top-model-winner-whitney-thompson-juicy-booty http://www.hollywire.com/americas-next-top-model/plus-size-whitney-wins-americas-next-top-model/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arsenicalice (talk • contribs) 17:16, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Double Elimination under all contestants
How do you know who the double elimination models were for cycle 11? I'm aware that there's going to be one, nd those are believable choices, but could you have a link from it? This show is unpredictable from Claire coming in eigth, Dominique making it to the semi-final round, and Whitney winning. Please get rid of it until it premieres, or get an external link. I would but I'm not a member. 16:31, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ Removed rumoured double-elimination. SKS2K6 (talk) 21:46, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

International Destinies
As Cycle 9 has two international destinies showed in the cycle summary, Shanghai and Beijing, I think the ones of Cycle 3 and Cycle 6 should be corrected. In Cycle 3, the girls had been in Montego Bay, Jamaica, in the second episode. So I think in the cycle summary it should be showed, both destinies, Montego Bay and Tokyo. The same happens in Cycle 6. The girls, in the episode before the last one, had been in Phuket, Thailand, so in the summary there should be, as in Cycle 9 happens, Bangkok & Phuket, Thailand.

Help
On Cycle 8 someone put Jaslene Gonzalez as having 5 consecutive bottom 2 appearances which from other articles I know is not true as she is the only winner and is only one of three contestants not to have a bottom 2 appearance. I have just started watching this year and do not know what was going on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.210.16 (talk) 22:32, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * she was never in the bottom 2, and there has so far been no contestant to have 5 consecutive bottom 2 appearances. 69.112.221.166 (talk) 20:30, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Cycle 10
Its was Fatima that came in second, i believe not anya. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.223.183 (talk) 01:39, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You're wrong, Fatima came third on halfway in season finale. Anya was the runner-up and Whitney was the winner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.96.115.218 (talk) 01:54, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Source
Why did the article have the information about the cycle 11 season finale? From what source? Es.ntp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.68.138.176 (talk) 02:12, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Worst judge
Nigel is so stupid. Guest judges rarely speak and often dont give much valid opinion.

Blah. ANTMFanatic (talk) 16:16, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Top 5 Record
Under all contestents shouldn't we honor something about a contestent never placing out of the top 5? The top 5 is like one of the best places. I think we should recognize Adrianne Curry, Mercedes Scelba-Shorte, Brittany Hatch, and possibly McKey Sullivan for this task.

I think that falls a tee bit too much under trivia. And wiki doesn't like trivia. :S Just a thought. ZephyrWind (talk) 03:37, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

ANTM Promotional Posters
Can we use all the promotional posters (from cycle 1 to now) with fair use rationale? Doesn't the CWTV hold the copyrights? Please give as much information as possible, because I'm struggling to save'em in WikiPedia Vietnamese. 118.68.138.107 (talk) 13:22, 29 October 2008 (UTC).
 * I'm surprised no one replied to you. But yeah, in my view, it would be under fair use, because there would be no way of grabbing a picture of all the contestants and Tyra in the same place at the same time (re: during the filming of the cycle). I'd be open to hearing arguments going the other way, but I'm not sure if they'd convince me. SKS2K6 (talk) 17:53, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I found the Cycles 4 and 9 promotional photos in Vietnamese Wikipedia. Links: http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%ACnh:ANTM,_Cycle_4.jpg http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%ACnh:ANTM,_Cycle_9.jpg Could it be add in Cycle 4 page? ApprenticeFan (talk) 01:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Question about the youngest winner...
Wasn't Eva also 19 when she won? It was stated she was 19 and even she said she was 19 when she was on the go-sees just one episode before she won. Did she really turn 20 before she won? Or should we have listed two youngest winners? Aoi-chan13 (talk) 12:56, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

and nicole was 20 when she won, her bday is in febuary —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.189.254 (talk) 02:29, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

CoverGirl of the Week
I've noticed that some recaps and finales (namely C3-5) have covergirls of the week while other don't. Anyone knows who was on the week it isn't stated?--Whadaheck (talk) 16:50, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

ANTM Call-out table colors
Since the call-out color originally posted by ZephyrWind, I decided to remind for future reference and editors can stop changing the colors and when they like it or not. The discussion can be found in Call-Out table colors in talk page's third archive.

This is the original table preserved for historical context

Here's the code for the call-out color description and the example: : The contestant was eliminated

Cheers. ApprenticeFan (talk) 13:13, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * for "The contestant won two reward challenges" I changed Blue back to Royal Blue, since no one gave a reason for the change and it apears to be only the work of one person. Blue was too bright and made it hard to read. If you want to change it to Blue, please give a reason why Blue is better than Royal blue.-Misty Willows (talk) 03:33, 23 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't there also bea color for the contestants disqualified from challenges?--81.194.35.225 (talk) 13:28, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * There are already enough colors, see WP:MOS on using colors to convey meaning. Plastikspork (talk) 15:48, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * And where exactly does it state that you shouldn't put more than 9 colors per table?--81.194.35.225 (talk) 17:14, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I count 15 in the key above, which is already problematic according to MOS. Try viewing the key in Vischeck or on a monochrome monitor. If it's important information, it can be included in the episode summary. Plastikspork (talk) 18:40, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep, but on C10 which has the most, only 9 are used. And once again, I see no number of colors. But whatever... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.194.35.225 (talk) 14:17, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Not to be annoying or anything, but even if we added the disqualified colors, no cycle would have more than 10 colors in its table.--Whadaheck (talk) 12:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * For the contestant won a "reward challenge" was changed back to Cornflower Blue like other reality TV shows won a challenge. The last color used for the said description was a Hexadecimal code number and it is not listed in Web colors. It is too hard to find the code. ApprenticeFan (talk) 00:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Has it been checked on different computers operating systems browsers, etc. to make sure it looks good? (I'm worried it could be too close to royal blue on some systems, but I don't know). Where else is it being used for "reward challenge" and is there a reason it would be better than something something else (e.g. LIghtSteelBlue)? -Misty Willows (talk) 09:53, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I now changed to Light Steel Blue for use as a color "the contestant won a reward challenge in one episode". The previous color code was so dark and the Cornflower Blue thingy isn't look good. In fact, Cornflower Blue color is a few darker than Royal Blue color. -- Apprentice Fan   Messages  11:02, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I had an Idea to improve the table colors: Make a rule that all normal/common occurrences should be lighter colors with black text, and all unusual/exceptional occurrences should be darker colors with white text. If an exceptional occurrence is a variation of a normal occurrence, then it should be a darker but similar color as the normal occurrence. Can we get consensus on this? ... Misty Willows talk  07:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes. User ZephyrWind had originally an idea to put black fonts in Grey web color. -- ApprenticeFan Messages   Work  11:28, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually having for instance CGotW's name written in bold and challenge winner being underlined or stuff like that would highly reduce the number of colors and would make it a lot more readable for color blind people.--81.194.35.225 (talk) 15:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

proposed modification
This modification accomplishes the goals stated above: making unusual events light on dark, and using typography to aid the color blind. Can we get a consensus? ... Misty Willows talk  22:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems good. Personally, as long as it's legible and not horribly tacky, it doesn't matter to me.  But it's gonna be a lot of work reformatting all those tables.  :T  SKS2K6 (talk) 22:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You can get a regular expression search/replace tab for your monobook.js which makes changes a bit easier. Plastikspork (talk) 22:31, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggest removing the color for original eliminee (one occurance only and it can be explained through a note under the table) and maybe the non-elimination bottom two color too. A disqualified color could be used instead as it is way more frequent. The rest is fine. --81.194.35.225 (talk) 16:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I implemented the colors, I have not yet implemented the text formating. Can someone who knows how to do regular expressions do that? ... Misty Willows talk  18:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Should we have a color for Heather (Cycle 9) because she is voted to be CoverGirl of the Week but she was previously eliminated. I suggest using Powderblue for her. User:Es.ntp 118.68.60.225 (talk) 02:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC).
 * I don't think so. I think it would be confusing.   Actually I think cover girl of the week should go to the week it was voted, on not to the week it was announced.... Misty <font color="FF66FF">Willows  <font color="DarkGray">talk  15:02, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggested Deep Pink instead of Medium Violet Red in "The contestant was the original eliminee but was saved, and won the reward challenge". The proposed color is lighter than medium violet red. This is quite confusing at red shaded colors. ApprenticeFan  <font color="mediumpurple">talk  contribs 15:31, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

On Britain's Next Top Model, Cycle 5 there is now a new scenario: In Episode 3 Ashley won the reward challenge and was part of a non-elimination bottom two. Which colour should be used for that? Omarosa rocks (talk) 17:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Kegzz suggested LightPink color in Britain's Next Top Model, Cycle 4 page which the color use as "The contestant was part of non-elimination bottom two" . ApprenticeFan  <font color="mediumpurple">talk  contribs 23:20, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Portal
I've been thinking and I think that we should get a wiki portal for this section, you know. I just think that the whole thing is just like too big for this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.10.116 (talk) 15:57, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Statistics
I'm now freaking out! Someone has taking all the statistics and deleted them from each article featuring a cycle! I want them I need them and I am now missing all of it! And also why change the Ep to Episode?! Everyone knows what it means unless you're mentally retarded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.210.16 (talk) 21:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes I wanted to know something from those stats. Why delete them?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smartie.Pantz4 (talk • contribs) 01:51, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Lists like this constitute "Original Research" and as such are in violation of WP:NOR and WP:TRIVIA. If you "need them" they could be put on a "fan site". Plastikspork (talk) 15:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

If we need the stats for this page I found them. I already got all the statistics on the individual ones, don't add it to the article.

Winners: Statistics
 * Oldest winner: Yoanna House (Cycle 2), 23 years old
 * Youngest winner: Nicole Fox (Cycle 13), 18 years old
 * Tallest winner: McKey Sullivan (Cycle 11), 5'11.5" (183 cm)
 * Shortest winner: Eva Pigford (Cycle 3), 5'6.5" (168 cm)
 * Heaviest winner: Whitney Thompson (Cycle 10), 159 lb (72 kg)
 * Lightest winner: Jaslene Gonzalez (Cycle 8), 110 lb (50 kg)
 * Most consecutive challenge wins: Naima Mora (Cycle 4) & Saleisha Stowers (Cycle 9), both 2 wins
 * Most collective challenge wins: Naima Mora (Cycle 4), 4 wins
 * Most consecutive first call outs: Eva Pigford (Cycle 3) & Jaslene Gonzalez (Cycle 8), both 2 times
 * Most collective first call outs: Jaslene Gonzalez (Cycle 8), 4 times
 * Fewest collective first call outs: Adrianne Curry (Cycle 1), Yoanna House (Cycle 2), Nicole Linkletter (Cycle 5), Danielle Evans (Cycle 6), & Whitney Thompson (Cycle 10), all 1 time
 * Most consecutive bottom two appearances: Eva Pigford (Cycle 3), Danielle Evans (Cycle 6) & Whitney Thompson (Cycle 10), all 2 times
 * Most collective bottom two appearances: Whitney Thompson (Cycle 10), 4 times.
 * No bottom two appearances: Jaslene Gonzalez (Cycle 8), McKey Sullivan (Cycle 11) & Nicole Fox (Cycle 13)
 * Fewest challenge wins: Nicole Linkletter (Cycle 5) & Danielle Evans (Cycle 6), both 0 wins
 * Most consecutive CoverGirl of the Week wins (Cycles 3-10): Naima Mora (Cycle 4), 9 wins
 * Most collective CoverGirl of the Week wins (Cycles 3-10): Naima Mora (Cycle 4), 9 wins
 * Fewest CoverGirl of the Week wins (Cycles 3-10): Nicole Linkletter (Cycle 5) & Saleisha Stowers (Cycle 9), both 0 wins

All Contestants: Statistics


 * Total number of contestants: 170
 * Oldest contestants: Robin Manning (Cycle 1) & Jade Cole (Cycle 6), both 26 years old at time of taping
 * Youngest contestants: 32 contestants were 18 years old — the show's minimum age — at time of taping.
 * Tallest contestant: Lisa Jackson (Cycle 9) & Aminat Ayinde (Cycle 12), 6'1.5" (186 cm)
 * Shortest contestant: Sundai Love (Cycle 13), 5'3.5" (161 cm)
 * Heaviest contestant: Diana Zalewski (Cycle 8), 198 lb (90 kg)
 * Lightest contestant: Melrose Bickerstaff (Cycle 7), 104 lb (47 kg)
 * Most consecutive challenge wins: Yaya Da Costa (Cycle 3), 5 wins
 * Most collective challenge wins: Yaya Da Costa (Cycle 3) & Melrose Bickerstaff (Cycle 7), both 5 wins
 * Most consecutive bottom two appearances: Erin Wagner (Cycle 13), 4 times
 * Most collective bottom two appearances: Ann Markley (Cycle 3), Bre Scullark (Cycle 5) & Jade Cole (Cycle 6), all 5 times
 * Most consecutive first callouts: Joanie Dodds (Cycle 6), 3 times
 * Most collective first callouts: Joanie Dodds (Cycle 6) & Anya Kop (Cycle 10), both 5 times
 * Most consecutive CoverGirl of the Week wins (Cycles 3-10): Naima Mora (Cycle 4) & Heather Kuzmich (Cycle 9), both 9 wins
 * Most collective CoverGirl of the Week wins (Cycles 3-10): Naima Mora (Cycle 4) & Heather Kuzmich (Cycle 9), both 9 wins
 * No bottom two appearance: Joanie Dodds (Cycle 6), Jaslene Gonzalez (Cycle 8), Anya Kop (Cycle 10), McKey Sullivan (Cycle 11), Nicole Fox (Cycle 13) & Laura Kirkpatrick (Cycle 13)

I have updated the table, considering that Laura had no bottom TWO appearance, since she was only in the bottom THREE, and Erin had four consecutive bottom TWO appearances.

Cycle 11
The winner wasn't Analeigh, it was McKey and the runner up was Sam...how can this be corrected? Emurray1977 (talk) 13:42, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Error in "Show Format"
In the scetion called "Show Format", the 4th Paragraph contains an error. It states there was no commercial shoot in cycle 3, which is incorrect.

The commercial shoot was filmed in Tokyo for "Campbell's Select Soup" where the contestants had to cold read the commercial in Japanese. Colinweston (talk) 12:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

CYCLE 12 ABROAD DESTINATION
http://honestlyantm12.wordpress.com/cycle12-spoilers/

scroll down there are pics of some of the girls and nigel and jay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.48.179.161 (talk) 20:57, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Forums, blogs and fansites aren't reliable sources. ApprenticeFan (talk) 02:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

CYCLE 12 premiere date
http://www.thefutoncritic.com/showatch.aspx?id=americas_next_top_model&view=listings —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.48.179.161 (talk) 04:26, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * America's Next Top Model Cycle 12 does NOT premiere on February 25th!It has been pushed back to March 4th!Someone change it!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.237.153.82 (talk) 03:18, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Judge Pourizkova
It has been shown several times that judge Pourizkova being very rude, harsh and not inspiring to some of the contestants and viewers for several times now on all the cycles she has been on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.38.104 (talk) 07:31, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

that's how antm mall rats would be treated in a real model agency, if you are a worshipper of tyra's self-promoting pseudo-caring nonsenses it's better for you to know —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.201.179.196 (talk) 12:24, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Show Format
In Cycle 3, there was indeed a commercial, the Chicken Campbell's Soup Commercial in Japanese. Cycle 4 was the cycle missing a commercial.

Cycle 13
In the eligibility requirements thing, it says you have to be 5'7'' or UNDER? wtf? 69.112.221.166 (talk) 01:45, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Cycles 13 & 14 Confirmation?
According to this article [], cycles 13 and 14 are likely to be renewed.

''In the clearest sign yet that The CW will live to fight another season, the network has given early renewals to a half-dozen existing series, including Superman drama “Smallville."

''The CW President Dawn Ostroff began telephoning executives at Warner Bros. Television and CBS Paramount Network Television about the decision Tuesday morning. The network could announce the news as early as this afternoon.

In addition to “Smallville,” the series renewed for next season are “Gossip Girl,” “90210,” “America’s Next Top Model” (cycles 13 and 14), “One Tree Hill” and “Supernatural.” While the solid ratings for all six shows made pickups likely, the renewals were not all foregone conclusions.

It doesn't sound like the next two cycles have been confirmed, so I'm unsure if this should be added to the main article. Any help/ideas? Jhg812 (talk) 20:53, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes there is. They held casting for Cycle 13. If there is a cycle 14. That would be confirmed at the time of cycle 13, which is officially happening. Tyra announced it on the Tyra Banks Show —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thehotgossip (talk • contribs) 16:33, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

New Zealand
Re:New Zealand's Next Top Model. The host role was not formally offered to Charlotte Dawson - informal discussions were held, as they were with several other potential candidates, but the only written offer was made to Sara Tetro. John McDonald: Executive Producer, TV3. 203.100.208.73 (talk) 06:00, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Vietnam
It was thought that Vietnamese Modeling Project was a spin-off of ANTM. That's true? This show was created annually, casted girls from all over the world to compete each other to win $10.000 and some grand prizes. User:Es.ntp. 118.68.238.8 (talk) 13:39, 5 May 2009 (UTC).

Contestant article up for deletion
An article I've worked on about Celia Ammerman is being proposed for deletion. I would like to encourage any of you to give your thoughts at the deletion site one way or the other, regarding whether to support or oppose this deletion. Obviously, I oppose it, but I'm asking for your honest opinions, not for you to side with me. Thanks! — <font color="#C0C0C0">Hunter <font color="#595454">Kahn  ( contribs )  05:13, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Call-out table format
I will publicly say this. I don't care if the article OUR call-out tables are white in the void areas instead of black because it conforms to the Wikipedia manual of style WP:MOS while the black tables do not. I hope all those IP editors understand the point I am trying to get across here. Thanks.

Here is the image that there is a black box appear in IE:

(Copied from Australia's Next Top Model talk page). ApprenticeFan <font color="mediumpurple">talk  contribs 11:04, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Could you check to see if '#CCC' is rendered the same as '#CCCCCC'? These are supposed to be the same color, as per W3 guidelines, but there might be a browser quirk. Plastikspork (talk) 16:43, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Here is the example which use the standard color tables like Survivor and The Amazing Race articles:

Before:

After proposing modification using darkgray color between contestant after getting eliminated:


 * Darkgray is slightly used in tables matching with lines and making clear. ApprenticeFan  <font color="mediumpurple">talk  contribs 17:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Looks reasonable to me. I'm still curious about the rendering of '#CCC' as black in Internet Explorer. Plastikspork (talk) 21:46, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

America's Next Top Model's Renewal
It has been confirmed that there will be a Cycle 13 and a Cycle 14, because The CW has stated that they will remnew it for atleast 2 more seasons and Nigel stated that he will stay until the SIXTEENTH cycle. In which means that Cycle 13 will premiere around September 7th, 25 , 28 or oddly an October cycle. They are currently filming America's Next Top Model right now.

" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thehotgossip (talk • contribs) 16:42, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Splitting article into America's Next Top Model & Top Model
I am suggesting the following and splitting America's Next Top Model to Top Model article. This article is too big. Here's the following to reduce the length of this article:


 * The first section, copy edit the show format and reduce the length of this section to Top Model article.

The rationale for this is that this separates the format of the game from details of the US broadcast and marketing of the series. This allows other Top Model franchises to point back to the format section without bogging down in the rules. We have used the approach for The Amazing Race and Survivor where this wikilink goes to worldwide-mostly-generic format information, and these original American series are points to the specific instances of the broadcast in the US.

The US-based article will only talk about the US edition (obviously). With this option, the main article can reduce any bias toward the US series although that is by far the best known of the international versions.

By the way, the article International versions of Top Model will merge to Top Model article and it will be placed in International versions section.

Any thoughts to shortened the article to Top Model franchise article? ApprenticeFan <font color="mediumpurple">talk  contribs 14:46, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds fair enough. This article is getting a bit...long.  But do the other shows follow the format closely enough so that we don't write down every single deviation from the formula on the Top Model page? SKS (talk) 14:56, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I am agree with your saying. The decision is splitting a show format.

Step 1: Copy edit show format (1-Contestants, 2-Episodes, 3-Challenges, 4-Photo shoot and 5-Judging)

Step 2: Copy and merge the international versions into in a proposed section (International versions)

In addition, here is the proposed introduction of Top Model article:

Top Model is a fashion themed reality television series format produced in many countries throughout the world. In the show, the contestants are in which a number of women compete for the title of Top Model and a chance to start their career in modeling industry. It is based from America's Next Top Model created by Tyra Banks and has expanded spin-offs in over 40 countries. The show is produced by 10x10 Entertainment and CBS Paramount Television.

It has implemented changes into this article. ApprenticeFan <font color="mediumpurple">talk  contribs 15:16, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

International Syndications
I've heard that this show has been broadcasting outside of US by a great number of countries and regions. Why don't we have a additional section for it so that we could gradually update. User:Es.ntp 118.68.60.33 (talk) 13:47, 20 June 2009 (UTC).

Cycle 13 contestants and destination
Please don't add the name of the contestants and the destination revealed for the upcoming season. Please wait it until reliable sources are found. ApprenticeFan <font color="mediumpurple">talk  contribs 03:26, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Yasmin Le Bon
She is a new judge or guest judge?? User:Es.ntp 113.22.148.61 (talk) 14:45, 24 July 2009 (UTC).

Seasons table
The heading other contestants is placed over cast size, which is misleading, since the cast size measures all the contestants, not just the number of other contestants. I am going to modify it. Feel free to change it again if you have a better solution. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 11:49, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You all like the table in its new format? Great. But I was thinking, why naming the international destionation as; Paris, France instead of just Paris? It's already clear that were talking about France, because of the French flag. And it only makes the table more narrowed. FAB!AN (talk) 16:08, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't like the new format for the table. I think the new format with the alternating colors is not aesthetically pleasing and the bands between the columns are distracting. Also, there is too much room devoted to the first few rows (the premiere date, the winner, the runner-up) and not enough space for the other contestants.  I do like the new int'l destination row.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.76.135.197 (talk) 20:30, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Added color to table
There is a new situation of "The contestant was entered as replacement into the competition, but was eliminated" this cycle. The first couple of colors used for this were ipreviously used colors, that would cause a conflict with the established color scheme. i chose chocolate because it was unique to the table and fit the established scheme.
 * The contestant was entered as replacement into the competition, but was eliminated

Does anyone have an objection to this? <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF">Willows <font color="DarkGray">talk  22:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, in Cycle 4, two contestants were in bottom two (or three in other NTM franchises) and both eliminated with a blank photo.
 * The contestant was involved in a double elimination


 * Does anyone like it, I will replace the single-elimination color into double on NTM franchises. <font color="mediumaquamarine">ApprenticeFan <font color="cornflowerblue">talk  contribs 00:38, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Fine by me, I just fear they'll be too many colors in time to come. ZephyrWind (talk) 11:48, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's a good idea, it might be confusing. 113.22.176.65 (talk) 03:55, 13 September 2009 (UTC).
 * I also don't like this idea - why are people so desperate in adding as many colours as possible when its obvious when there are two names violet the same week that it is a double elimination? its also not the first time that <font color="mediumaquamarine">ApprenticeFan <font color="cornflowerblue">talk is editing all the NTM immediatly before this subject was discussed. Shameless (talk) 23:17, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh Sorry, You really think that the changing color that discussed before I was realized that was a bad idea about double eliminations. <font color="mediumaquamarine">ApprenticeFan <font color="cornflowerblue">talk  contribs 23:53, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think there are far too many colors, and a special color for a double elimination seems superfluous. See WP:ACCESSIBILITY and Colours for example. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 00:05, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you suggesting we reduce the number of colors? I would be in agreement, but I don't have a specific proposal at this time. <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF">Willows <font color="DarkGray">talk  04:24, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * When user Shameless responded about colors shown above, the difference was the double elimination color could possibly for a future use as a call-out order. <font color="mediumaquamarine">ApprenticeFan <font color="cornflowerblue">talk  contribs 04:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Someone added in a new color to the table, which is light green for "the contestant was immune from elimination" which applies to Brittany in Cycle 13. ZephyrWind (talk) 01:50, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I think we should use the same color with AusNTM, Cycle 4 & 5. Brittany was immune from elimination and won an extra prize, so did Alyce and Franky. 123.20.65.234 (talk) 08:20, 1 October 2009 (UTC).
 * This color is useless. It's basically a reward challenge win, only the challenge took place at the photoshoot, like it happened twice in C5.--79.87.131.77 (talk) 16:06, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ. C5 did not grant immunity. Simple as that. And secondly, Brittany didn't win a reward challenge. It was a challenge that came with a reward. That's why Nicole isn't denoted as winning a challenge in C5ZephyrWind (talk) 14:16, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The country pose-off did grant immunity, IIRC. And isn't a challenge with a reward a reward challenge? There have been other instances of episodes with two reward challenges (such as in cycle 11 and 12). To me making a new color is just splitting hairs--Whadaheck (talk) 15:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. I don't get it. Why make a new color for one single occurence which can easily be said to be a challenge win (even if it gasp§ happened at the photoshoot). Should we make a color for Nikeysha winning the key to the house in cycle 11 while we're at it, or one for girls who were told by Tyra that they would have been called first if not for this or that... Please...--81.194.35.225 (talk) 11:18, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Anything, I'm not forcing my ideas on anyone. And anyways, Whadaheck, do you think a girl who did better in the photo shoot face-off and indeed "won immunity", and insulted Tyra in her face, and came into judging with only a bikini on, do you think she would still be granted immunity? What I'm trying to say is that I don't think the Cycle 5 thing counts as immunity haha, unlike Brittany, who could have done all the above and not be eliminated because she was guaranteed immunity. Food for thought. ZephyrWind (talk) 13:42, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Amber DePace
Amber made it to Top Model, so she is a (non-official) contestant and there are 15 girls? She should be included in Cycle Table. 58.186.230.63 (talk) 11:36, 14 September 2009 (UTC).


 * You said it yourself. "non-official". ZephyrWind (talk) 16:21, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * However on several other NTM articles the contestant that quits after the finalists have been determinded is still listed everyway as happened on Canada's Next Top Model Cycle 3 or Australia's Next Top Model Cycle 3. Why are there different rules for the american one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.132.203.167 (talk) 19:01, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Makeover Section
Why is all section "makeovers" deleted in 13 Cycles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.186.227.206 (talk • contribs)


 * I believe they were considered to be filled with too much POV and OR. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 17:44, 15 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Please see Talk:Australia's Next Top Model, Cycle 5. <font color="mediumaquamarine">ApprenticeFan <font color="cornflowerblue">talk  contribs 04:32, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Destination
I hear that the "international" destination in Cycle 13 is Maui, Hawaii. I wil try to find links to pictures.

Judges
Should a section be devoted to the current judges? A brief synopsis of their backgrounds and how that translates to their role on the show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Voice99 (talk • contribs) 17:27, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Influence on Pop Culture
What do you think about Amber Siyavus' references to the show on Big Brother 8? Since it became a huge content on the show that she would be a wannabe-contestant on the show. What do you think, should it be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.132.203.167 (talk) 18:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

ANTM Call-out table colors
Back on the Brittany immunity color topic, since I didn't get to answer it, I still do not think a new color is necessary. A footnote is, but it's basically a second challenge. As far as the cycle 5 pose-off goes, the winner was chosen at panel (like during the correspondant challenge in C8 or the styling one in C9), so had a girl insulted Tyra, she would not have been the winner, so Zephyr Wind's point is moot. To me it could be something like:

The colors are re-added from the talk page archive:


 * {| class="wikitable"

!Color !Call-out description !Franchise(s)
 * bgcolor="limegreen"|LimeGreen
 * The contestant won the competition
 * align="center"|All
 * bgcolor="crimson"| Crimson
 * The contestant quit the competition
 * align="center"|All
 * bgcolor="darkred"| DarkRed
 * The contestant was eliminated outside of judging panel
 * align="center"|ANTM
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="lightsteelblue"|LightSteelBlue
 * The contestant won the reward challenge
 * align="center"|All
 * bgcolor="royalblue"| RoyalBlue
 * The contestant won two reward challenges
 * align="center"|ANTM, BNTM, Greece
 * bgcolor="blue"| Blue
 * The contestant won four reward challenges
 * align="center"|Greece
 * bgcolor="purple"| Purple
 * The contestant won the reward challenge and was eliminated
 * align="center"|All
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="violet"|Violet
 * The contestant was eliminated (including double/multiple elimination/s and finalists)
 * align="center"|All
 * bgcolor="deeppink"|DeepPink
 * The contestant was the original eliminee but was saved
 * align="center"|
 * bgcolor="mediumvioletred"| MediumVioletRed
 * The contestant was the original eliminee but was saved, and won thereward challenge
 * align="center"|ANTM
 * bgcolor="palevioletred"| PaleVioletRed
 * The contestant was the original eliminee but quit the competition
 * align="center"|
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="yellow"|Yellow
 * The contestant was CoverGirl of the Week The contestant was voted by the audience as the fan favourite
 * align="center"|ANTM, AusNTM
 * bgcolor="orange"|Orange
 * The contestant was CoverGirl of the Week and won the reward challenge
 * align="center"|ANTM
 * bgcolor="olive"| Olive
 * The contestant was CoverGirl of the Week and was eliminated
 * align="center"|ANTM
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="darkblue"| DarkBlue
 * The contestant did not participate in the photo shoot
 * align="center"|ANTM, CNTM
 * bgcolor="magenta"|Magenta
 * The contestant won the reward challenge, but did not participate in the photoshoot
 * align="center"|HNTM
 * The contestant was CoverGirl of the Week The contestant was voted by the audience as the fan favourite
 * align="center"|ANTM, AusNTM
 * bgcolor="orange"|Orange
 * The contestant was CoverGirl of the Week and won the reward challenge
 * align="center"|ANTM
 * bgcolor="olive"| Olive
 * The contestant was CoverGirl of the Week and was eliminated
 * align="center"|ANTM
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="darkblue"| DarkBlue
 * The contestant did not participate in the photo shoot
 * align="center"|ANTM, CNTM
 * bgcolor="magenta"|Magenta
 * The contestant won the reward challenge, but did not participate in the photoshoot
 * align="center"|HNTM
 * align="center"|ANTM, CNTM
 * bgcolor="magenta"|Magenta
 * The contestant won the reward challenge, but did not participate in the photoshoot
 * align="center"|HNTM
 * align="center"|HNTM


 * bgcolor="teal"| Teal
 * The contestant did not participate in the photo shoot and was eliminated
 * align="center"|ANTM
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="lightpink"|LightPink
 * The contestant was part of a non-elimination bottom two
 * align="center"|ANTM, AusNTM, BNTM, CNTM
 * bgcolor="cyan"|Cyan
 * The contestant was part of a non-elimination bottom two and won the reward challenge
 * align="center"|BNTM
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="darkgreen"| DarkGreen
 * The contestant added into the cast
 * Scouted at a separate audition/Due to a number opening
 * align="center"|ANTM, BNLNTM
 * bgcolor="chocolate"| Chocolate
 * The contestant was entered as replacement into the competition, but was eliminated
 * align="center"|ANTM
 * bgcolor="gold"|Gold
 * The contestant entered the competition, replacing a contestant who quit.
 * align="center"|AusNTM
 * bgcolor="tan"|Tan
 * The contestant was re-entered into the competition
 * align="center"|AusNTM, HNTM, Israel
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="lightgreen"|LightGreen
 * The contestant was immune from elimination The contestant was immune from elimination and was invited to be on the judging panel
 * align="center"|ANTM, BNTM
 * bgcolor="springgreen"|SpringGreen
 * The contestant was immune from elimination and won the reward challenge
 * align="center"|AusNTM
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="darkviolet"| DarkViolet
 * The contestant temporarily withdrew from the competition
 * align="center"|AusNTM
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="pink"|Pink
 * The contestant was called but it doesn't represent their position that week
 * align="center"|CNTM
 * bgcolor="steelblue"|SteelBlue
 * The contestant won the reward challenge and was called but it doesn't represent their position that week
 * align="center"|CNTM
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="coral"|Coral
 * The contestant was nominated for elimination this week
 * align="center"|Spain
 * }
 * The contestant temporarily withdrew from the competition
 * align="center"|AusNTM
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="pink"|Pink
 * The contestant was called but it doesn't represent their position that week
 * align="center"|CNTM
 * bgcolor="steelblue"|SteelBlue
 * The contestant won the reward challenge and was called but it doesn't represent their position that week
 * align="center"|CNTM
 * colspan=3 bgcolor="#CCCCCC"|
 * bgcolor="coral"|Coral
 * The contestant was nominated for elimination this week
 * align="center"|Spain
 * }
 * bgcolor="coral"|Coral
 * The contestant was nominated for elimination this week
 * align="center"|Spain
 * }
 * }
 * }

Colors should not be used if there's only one occurence.--Whadaheck (talk) 22:47, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Green for winner seems dark and Red for quitter is so light. Lime green and Crimson are more suitable. Hotpink is nearly like Violet. 113.22.151.150 (talk) 01:26, 24 October 2009 (UTC).


 * Thanks for your input. Anyways, I don't think that the chocolate color in Cycle 13 is necessary as what happened to Lisa is basically what happened to Tessa and Giselle in Cycle 1. Creating a new color for the same thing is pretty much superfluous. same goes for Brittany winning immunity in Cycle 13 or Nicole winning to have her pic used as an ad in Cycle 5, those are basically reward challenges.--Whadaheck (talk) 15:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I re-added the chocolate color from talk page archive # 4. Though the green color has never used in Cycle 13 and Lisa had not made it in the final cut on casting week of that said cycle. <font color="mediumaquamarine">ApprenticeFan <font color="cornflowerblue">talk  contribs 16:42, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * And Tessa and Giselle didn't make the cut at Cycle 1's casting, they were brought in as replacements because Tyra and the producers couldn't agree on two more girls, yet they are listed below the rest of the girls and Tessa isn't in chocolate color, despite the fact that she's a replacement who got eliminated right away. I don't see why there should be two different policies for one show.--Whadaheck (talk) 19:45, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Read the Cycle 1 article states that Tessa and Giselle were added into the cast during the first half of its first episode. They were not as replacements than Lisa (Cycle 13). During Cycle 10, Dominique was added into the cast after Tyra announced to increase the count of the girls from regular 13 through 14. During the current cycle, Amber had made it into the final 14 list and she went missing at the start of second episode due to personal reasons (2-part episode of 09/09/2009). <font color="mediumaquamarine">ApprenticeFan <font color="cornflowerblue">talk  contribs 00:01, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The basic thing is, Lisa was entered as a replacement, Tessa & Gisele were not. They were officially, full-fletched finalists chosen by Tyra, just at a different casting. Simple. ZephyrWind (talk) 01:45, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * While Tessa and Giselle were picked "by Tyra", they were not even semi-fianlists to begin with, so they are just as much of replacements as Lisa. Adding a new color is just making things more complex for the hell of it. I say, keep it simple--Whadaheck (talk) 19:37, 29 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't follow Whadaheck's edits, follow the call-out colors shown above. ApprenticeFan  <font color="cornflowerblue">talk  contribs 01:54, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Replacements and additions are clearly different, Dark Green has only been used for additions and not replacements. LIsa was not added too the cast in the same way as Tessa and Giselle in cycle 1. she was eliminated and brought back to replace Amber who quit. I se no basis to use Dark green, or even include LIsa in the table for Episode 1. <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF"> Willows  <font color="DarkGray">talk   21:41, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Well then I'd reccommend a new color for Lisa and Heather in Cycle 9, as their being featured was not technically a challenge, they were just picked by the video director at the beginning of the shoot, that's not the same as a challenge, there was no competition beforehand, we're being specific, right? Same goes for Saleisha on episode 2, for winning an extra prize at panel (and Natasha in Cycle 8 and Nicole in Cycle 5). Nikeysha needs one for randomly getting the key to the house by picking the right purse, Eva, Kahlen, Nicole, Joanie & Caridee need one for being voted as City TV's audience favourite (we have the CoverGirls of the Week, why not have those ?), a LOT of girls need one for being disqualified from a challenge. Should I go on splitting hairs or do we have enough parts already?--Whadaheck (talk) 23:24, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * All of those are trivialities, LIsa replacing amber is a pivotal point in the competition. -<font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF"> Willows  <font color="DarkGray">talk   12:32, 2 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Winning a feature in a videoclip, a fashion week booking or getting disqualified from a challenge are not trivialities, and to get back to your point about Lisa being eliminated and then brought back, so were Giselle and Tessa, as they weren't picked to be semi-finalists and then brought back as finalists (or Dominique by making it in after Tyra called the "last" girl). So really, Lisa's situation is no different than theirs. The point of the color scheme is to be simple and re-usable, not to note one time thingies.--Whadaheck (talk) 19:03, 2 November 2009 (UTC)


 * FYI, Gisele, Tessa & Dominique were never eliminated before being picked. The first two weren't even at the auditions for the first cut to be eliminated, and Tyra opened up a slot for Dominique before eliminating the rest of the semi-finalists. ZephyrWind (talk) 02:39, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * And FYI if they weren't there for the first auditions it means their audition tapes hadn't been picked up, therefore they had been eliminated, only it was before the semi-finals, so yes they were eliminated and then brought back. And I never said that Dominique had been eliminated. I just said that her being added due to a number opening is similar to beiong added due to a withdrawal (Lisa) or picky producers (Tessa & Giselle), but why not add a new color while you're at it? --Whadaheck (talk) 18:57, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, indeed whadaheck! Add one for Isis cos she is a transsexual and broke the rules that states only females 18 and above may apply, and one for Natasha & Lluvy for being non-US citizens when they applied, and Fatima cos she is a refugee. And FYI, Giselle and Tessa never sent in audition tapes for ANTM. They were scouted at a Macy's runway at NYC. And no, Dominique is NOT similar to a withdrawal, because there as none. And this will be the last you hear from me regarding this. Cheers! ZephyrWind (talk) 06:11, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Then why was there an audition tape of Giselle shown during the recap of Cycle 1? Watch it there at 2:24. And I said that Dominique qualifies as an addition (just like Lisa, Giselle or Tessa), not a withdrawal (that would be Kim, Ebony or Cassandra, who have the same color as Amber, despite not quitting in the same way). Withdrawal, one color, Addition, one color.--Whadaheck (talk) 20:26, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * There, the call-out table segment about "the contestant won immunity" was first seen in Australia's Next Top Model, Cycle 4 (see entire video and find episode 1) when one of its contestants won the challenge and also immunity for the week. ApprenticeFan  <font color="cornflowerblue">talk  contribs 00:14, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


 * At Next Top Model (Greece) there is now a new situation: The contestant was the original eliminee but was saved. Any idea which colour should be used for it? Shameless (talk) 17:30, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The call-out segment "The contestant was the original eliminee but was saved" and the color will be use Deep Pink as a call-out order table.


 * The contestant was the original eliminee but was saved


 * Enjoy and use the new color. ApprenticeFan  talk  contribs 02:27, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * but this colour is already in use in the same article for The contestant was the original eliminee but quit the competition

To the replied editor: I prefer <font color="palevioletred">Pale Violet Red as the use of the said situation above. Change it. Thanks. ApprenticeFan talk  contribs 06:23, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

On Austria's Next Topmodel, Cycle 2 a new scenario happened: The girl did not participate in the photoshoot and won the reward challenge. Any suggestions which colour should be used? Shameless (talk) 23:21, 14 January 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, I'll check it out. In Holland's Next Top Model, Cycle 2, there is a same segment with elimination and magenta uses the color box description. <font color="antiquewhite">Antique White will use the color on the said scenario above described by User:Shameless. ApprenticeFan  talk  contribs 01:14, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Cycle 13 international destination
Don't add the Hawaiian flag in Cycles section, Hawaii is not a country, it is an U.S. state. Thank you. <font color="mediumaquamarine">ApprenticeFan <font color="cornflowerblue">talk  contribs 02:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Shall we add it beside the American flag? Just a thought. 220.255.7.157 (talk) 03:55, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: Hawaii is a part of the United States and it uses the American flag in many English articles. Besides, the Hawaiian flag will not added in that section. <font color="mediumaquamarine">ApprenticeFan <font color="cornflowerblue">talk  contribs 04:08, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

ANTM Cycle 14
68.23.85.188 (talk) 23:06, 15 November 2009 (UTC) POSTING FROM fibron3@yahoo.com Input for placing new data on Wikipeida -- following is a good start.... PLEASE CONSIDER ADDING NEW UNIT////////////////

America's Next Top Model – Cycle 14: Following list of Judges reportedly joining the panel for the next cycle -- Kimora Lee Simmons, and Andre Leon Talley.

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/americas-next-top-model/americas-next-top-model-kimora-32632.aspx?pollid=600001563&answer=600005251#poll600001563

Go to this site and vote – let’s make sure that Miss J stays on as a judge!!!!!

Source: Meghan Carlson, BuddyTV Staff Writer


 * Please wait until Cycle 14 will announce on the network by January 2010. Wait it for details. Thanks. ApprenticeFan  <font color="cornflowerblue">talk  contribs 04:39, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Cycle Fourteen Internal Destination Is New Zealand! Heres The source! http://www.3news.co.nz/Next-Top-Model-crew-arrive-in-New-Zealand/tabid/418/articleID/132549/Default.aspx?ArticleID=132549 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.29.90.219 (talk) 21:57, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Here is the source when the future contestants arrive in New Zealand taken from New Zealand Herald article: Top Model hunt successful. ApprenticeFan  talk  contribs 10:51, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

The article says already who wins the contest... What's the source for that? The season hasn't even started and WP knows the winner already? --SiriusAcht (talk) 09:45, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Double Elimination Order
Several times someone has reversed Erin and Jennifer in the elimination order. Lists, are supposed to be alphabetical, unless there is a logical reason to list them otherwise. Erin and Jennifer were eliminated together, so there is not a logical reason to put Erin ahead of Jennifer. "I like it better that way" or " I think Jennifer did better" are not valid reasons. <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF"> Willows <font color="DarkGray">talk   07:26, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Because on the table, the girls are only listed by their first names, so we should arrange them as such, same as Cycles 1 (Giselle then Tessa), 4 (Rebecca then Tiffany), 5 (Jayla then Nicole) & 10 (Aimee then Amis).ZephyrWind (talk) 06:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I am the one who has been changing them my reason is: When watching top model the eliminated girl has her portfolio pictures shown this has been done since cycle 3. If you notice in cycle 4 Rebecca's pictures are shown first, then Tiffany's. The same is done for cycle 13, Erin's photo history is shown, followed by Jennifer's. It is clear we should be following what the show does not alphabetical order this is not fair to the best show ever created. Please keep in mind if it is changed again I will change it until you understand my reason. --KrumpMaster4 (talk) 17:25, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you heard of consensus? And why are you changing other people's comments on this talk page? Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)  18:35, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I dont want this to be an edit war, but just because Erin was shown leaving first in no way implies she came fourth, just like it didnt mean Rebecca did worse than Tiffany all those cycles ago. It could have been so many reasons on the show why Erin's footage was shown first - it could have been alphabetical, it could have been random or it could be simply editting. Had it dawned on you that they could have filmed Jen's first but then shown it second? It should be alphabetical, because your just jumping to assumptions on an edit. If Tyra had said "the first girl to leave is Erin" and then put Laura through then fair enough, but she didnt. (Kyleofark (talk) 20:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC))


 * If they are tied, fuse the cells. And Tessa & Giselle weren't even there that week. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.2.255.244 (talk) 10:23, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I tried they still continue to change it, does anyone know how to get a hold of the Wikipedia people because I would really like to tell them about this, how people won't let you contribute to this page.--KrumpMaster4 (talk) 20:42, 21 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I put in a request for full protection. Nevermind, it appears you have been blocked. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 00:44, 22 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Dear KrumpMaster4, with all due respect to you and other eager volunteers who wish to contribute on Wikipedia to their favorite shows and programmes, please bear in mind that there's been others who have been contributing, editting, reverting vandalism, discussing for consensus, creating pages and maintaining the integrity of articles way before you did. Before you're being treated just as another come-and-go vandal, just let me remind you that it was not too long ago that ANTM Wiki pages just consisted of contestant bios and a call-out table. The format that it is now in is due to all the contributors through the years. Feel free to "get hold of the Wikipedia people", though I doubt it will be entertained anyway. In the meantime, continue to enjoy ANTM and do remember that Wikipedia is "the Free encyclopedia", not "the KrumpMaster4 encyclopedia". Have a nice day! ZephyrWind (talk) 09:48, 22 November 2009 (UTC)


 * And you've just proven that Wikipedia is anything but free. There's like two people who decide stuff and no matter how many people disagree, you say it's consensus. 2-3 people is hardly a consensus.--79.87.115.49 (talk) 18:11, 23 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Well said ZephyrWind. There's so many things i'd like to do to so many pages but cant, but hey I just accept that. I think KrumpMaster should take that into consideration, or at least give a convincing argument for his/her point of view before changing the page so often. Prefering one contestant more than another (which is what I think this is really about) is not what Wikipedia is about (Kyleofark (talk) 16:53, 22 November 2009 (UTC))


 * That's dumb. The consensus is not someone decide and I follow, it's we all agree and then we do it, which happens not to be the case here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.194.35.225 (talk) 18:06, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Kyleofark you are the main one who has been changing the two back. I am aware others have been reversing Jennifer and Erin, I am very happy people agree with me that Erin should go before Jennifer. To everyone else who agrees with this thank you continuing to make a difference. I have been blocked from editting for 72 hours. This is simply rediculous! Who in their right mind would block someone for 72 hours for simply fusing the cells togther so they read "Erin & Jennifer" I thought by doing this we could all adree to disagree. Again I was wrong. It's still their way or no way. I say anyone should be allowed to make changes and continue to do so.--KrumpMaster4 (talk) 19:55, 25 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually I'm fine with the merging of the cells. I don't know why you got blocked for that. BUT putting Jennifer above Erin is really what's causing all the problems I think... 121.6.96.156 (talk) 02:07, 27 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Then I guess the new consensus is merging the cells.--Whadaheck (talk) 14:46, 27 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, my bad, I just edited the Cycle 13 page without checking here. Im personally fine with merging the cells on the table, though it should still read "Erin & Jennifer". Of course, I think that means we should merge any other double eliminations, such as Rebecca and Tiffany, and any other ones in any other countries Top Model.
 * whadaheck you are jumping the gun again, and prematurely declaring consensus. I don't see a new concusses,  I see a few people saying they are open to the Idea,  There was a technical reason that merged cells were rejected in the past ( which I don't have time to go through the archives to recall)  Lets slow down and do this right.  I am personally not in favor of the merge cells,  because they introduce potential complications,  But if all the technical issues are addressed, and there is a clear consensus (which at the moment there is not)  then I won't have objections.  I think Plasticspork would be the best arbitrator here, and If s/he is willing, should tally and declare, what the consensus opinion is.  I don't see any justification. for making the merge. until that, or a similar process happens. <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF"> Willows  <font color="DarkGray">talk   08:41, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, so far we have 2 unsigned users (possibly 3 counting the one above you), Kyleofark, KrumpMaster4 and myself who seem to be for the merging, and you and Zephyrwind against it. I said the consensus seems to be a merging and nobody opposed it during a few days, then I changed it. And anyways, so far the majority is favorable to the merging. And which technical difficulties are you talking about, it's quite easy to fuse cells if you ask me.--Whadaheck (talk) 12:37, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I made a new section to discuss the proposal for merging cells, so that we can discuss it like a Wikipedia proposal.   <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF"> Willows  <font color="DarkGray">talk   18:54, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

The one thing I really disagree with is Erin coming first in the "In order of elimination" section though. Their surnames are used in this section, so they should be listed in order of surname. Its as simple as that. Thats how it is in "post top model careers," and you'll find I havent changed that once. (Kyleofark (talk) 18:18, 28 November 2009 (UTC))

But also Krumpmaster, you seem to be of the belief that you can just do you want and we should be happy with that? Why should we? You may want it one way, but I may want it another. Your saying you should be allowed to edit as you want.. isnt that exactly what I've been doing too? I think how the page reads know represents a fair compromise, though if someone comes along and changes it to something totally different, is that fair? The whole point in reaching a concensus is to do what the majority want - the majority here stated it should be "Erin, Jennifer" and "Jennifer An, Erin Wagner." Your opinion is of no more or no less value than anyone elses, you just need to realise that when the numbers are against you, then you shouldnt just change the page, you need to convince the majority why your opinions are the correct ones. (Kyleofark (talk) 18:27, 28 November 2009 (UTC))


 * Agreed. But there I think we should either list them everytime (episode summary, table, order of elim, post show careers) by first name or everytime by last name. It's just strange to have it both ways because it's different sections. On top of that, I repeat that Tessa and Giselle were not called at casting in Cycle 1 (because they weren't there) and since there is a color for replacement and one for replacement & eliminated, I think we could (and should) make the table more accurate. Anyone on board?--Whadaheck (talk) 23:21, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * if the list contains first and last name it makes sense to list by last name, and that is the standard, but if a list only has first names, then it makes no sense to list them according to the implied last name. if the table had "Jennifer An", and "Erin Wagner" in it,  the proper order would be Jennifer An" followed by "Erin Wagner".   but since it only has "Jennifer" and "Erin".  the proper order is Erin followed by Jennifer.   If you want to propose that all the tables should have first and last names in it, you might get a consensus.  Then things would be the way you want them.  <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF"> Willows  <font color="DarkGray">talk   06:46, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I have been saying this for a while but no one will listen. They always block me this time i have been blocked for a full week. Childish and Foolishness. Blocking for me having an opinion I'm done trying to discuss this, because obviously mistywillows you don't know how to hear others ideas!--KrumpMaster4 (talk) 22:47, 5 December 2009 (UTC)


 * You weren't blocked for 'having an opinion'. You were blocked for engaging in an edit war, rather than waiting until consensus had been reached. If you would like to propose a controversial change, start a straw poll, as Misty Willow's did below. Thank you for help! Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)  23:01, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Cycle 13: Making a difference
Cycle 13 of ANTM is a unique season. The female contestants are all petite women. Why not make a section on this wiki about how this is bringing in a high rating, and how it is changing the way we think of models? Just a thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kkscarbro (talk • contribs) 18:56, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, from what I remember reading, this is actually one of the lower-rated Top Model cycles. Also, there would have to be legitimate reliable sources demonstrating this change....  SKS (talk) 19:17, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Adding on to SKS, actually it is the lowest rated cycle... ZephyrWind (talk) 06:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Cycle 13 Winner
The Runner up and winners are switched. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.130.175.104 (talk) 02:13, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's fixed now. Nicole confirmed as winner of this cycle. ApprenticeFan  <font color="cornflowerblue">talk  contribs 02:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

For GOD! Don't be unconsidered!
Make a pagine for the runner up of cycle 13 Laura KiKPARTRICK! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.139.38.222 (talk) 01:24, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * And what reason would you give for that? She hasn't done anything prominent yet, so until she does, we don't really need a page for her, BUT if you really want to create one, go ahead. It's (the page) prominence will then be discussed. Having said this, I feel that alot of ANTM alumni shouldn't have pages, like Samantha Potter, Kahlen Rondot, Bre Scullark, Lisa D'Amato to name a few, so don't even get me started. ZephyrWind (talk) 09:52, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There is always WP:AFD. Just post a notice here if you do. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)  20:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't her being the very first American fan favourite ever make her notable?--164.2.255.244 (talk) 09:10, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Text Table?
Just a suggestion, but maybe we should have girls that were called at the same time in bold. Then the girls that were in a double elimination in italics —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.184.255.90 (talk) 22:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of Laura Kirkpatrick article
I brought this up because I'm nominating the article for deletion. A user created the page despite an administrator requesting its deletion. The link to this can be found on Laura's wiki discussion page. Thank you. ZephyrWind (talk) 07:54, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Alphabetical order for post top model careers.
The order of Elimination is completely irrelevant to the post top model carreers of the contestants, so there is no logical reason to have them listed in elimination order. The standard is that lists should be ordered alphabetically, unless there is a logical reason that a different order makes more sense; in this case, elimination order isn't. <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF"> Willows <font color="DarkGray">talk   09:12, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Proposal: merge cells in table for shared rank
Several times more than one contestant, shared the same rank. there have been scattered discussion in on this page and others about it, solets discuss the pro's and cons of the issue and state whether we are in favor or opposed

Pros: There isn't the appearance of preference, of one contestant over the other. It give better visual feedback, that there was a tie or group rank.

Cons: It makes it confusing if one of the group has special recognition ( like challenge winner or CGOW) that the others don't. There potentially could be some technical difficulty, for some browsers.
 * <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF"> Willows <font color="DarkGray">talk   18:48, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * There have been 5 occurrences as far as I know:

-The first one being Tessa and Giselle being added into the cast. But that wasn't even at panel and there's already a color scheme for both replacements (darkgreen) and replacements that were eliminated on their first week (chocolate).

-The second one is Tiffany and Rebecca's double elimination. No difference between the two (no challenge win, no CGOTW).

-The third one is Jayla and Nicole's non elimination. No difference again.

-The fourth one is Rae, Brittany and Jennifer. In that case there was a difference, but we have to exit strategies. The first one is coloring the font instead of the background. The second one, better in my opinion, is that Tyra herself ranked the girls while giveing her their critique, so we can split the cell accordingly.

-The last one is Erin and Jennifer's double elimination. No difference.


 * And so far no browser I have used has ever had a problem with merged cells.


 * So at the end of the day, the cons aren't really there at this point. The only difference that could remain now is that a girl would end up winning a challenge and tying with another one, since CGOTW doesn't even exist anymore, at which point we could use the first solution I cited above, or decide that winning the challenge places you above one that didn't. But right now, there is no proof such a time would come, so I am voting strongly in favor of the merging.--Whadaheck (talk) 19:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Im personally cool with the merged cells, though to be honest im happy either way. The thing what concerns me is if a girl were to for example win a challenge in the future, and get double eliminated with a girl who didnt win a challenge. This happened this year with the three girls/first call out picture, but luckily Tyra said that Rae was the best etc, so it was avoided. My opinion would be merge for now, and if a problem occurs in the future, come back here and readdress the situation. :) (Kyleofark (talk) 00:48, 1 December 2009 (UTC))


 * I'd really like to hear what Zephyrwind, AprenticeFan and Plastikspork have to say. At the moment  I would say that I am weakly opposed this proposal, but open to being persuaded otherwise. Does anyone have examples of other shows that use the merged cell strategy?   How do they deal with the fringe cases?   <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF"> Willows  <font color="DarkGray">talk   04:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * PCD Presents season 1, and it deals with the fringe cases by using the magic of footnotes.--79.87.115.24 (talk) 21:36, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I am weakly opposed to merging the cells. It really wouldn't bother me either way.  I just like to see some level of consistency. I know of many examples where the cells are not joined.  I can't think of any cases where the cells are joined. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)  04:31, 1 December 2009 (UTC)


 * To be fair, most shows don't use the call-out order for their tables, just the order of elim. I am in favor of the merging--164.2.255.244 (talk) 09:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I am changing my position to strongly opposed to merging cells,  because someone came up with, what I believe to be a much more elegant solution.:  bold  for group callouts, italic for group eliminations.  See the proposal below <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF"> Willows  <font color="DarkGray">talk   23:57, 1 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I am neutral about it. With regards to the italics, bold and underline, we should implement what we decided on ages ago to help the color-blind. I've done a bit on the tables already. As for now I don't really care whether to merge cells or not, just that it should be tidy, cohesive and agreeable. (And anyway someone has already merged the cells while we were talking about it) ZephyrWind (talk) 04:47, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Proposal: bold/italic in table for shared rank
As an Alternative to merging cells. We could make group callouts and eliminations Bold or Italic, or we could make callouts bold and eliminations italic. I believe this would be preferable to merged cells since it would not cause any of the problems mentioned above, while still accomplishing the goal of demonstrating equal position. I can't see any problems with this unless we actually implement the bold/italic/underline scheme, for the colorblind, that was proposed earlier, but never implemented. <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF"> Willows <font color="DarkGray">talk   00:14, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I am strongly opposed to it. Bold and italics are already supposed to be used for reward challenge winners and CGOTW, but nobody took the time.--Whadaheck (talk) 18:03, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * well if you think that, how about doing it youraelf. I came up with the scheme but i never got around to doing it and no one else seemed enthusuatic about the idea.  It was just something to help the colorblind .  <font color="DarkGray">... <font color="CC33CC">Misty <font color="FF66FF"> Willows  <font color="DarkGray">talk  21:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, it was my idea. I posted it in the last archive but forgot to log-in.--Whadaheck (talk) 22:11, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * And done half of it. I'm leaving the rest to you.--Whadaheck (talk) 22:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * OK. I've done the formatting for all the articles. As with regards to the merging of cells, as I've said earlier, it's fine to go ahead as long if it doesn't make the article messier or contradict an earlier decided-upon decision. ZephyrWind (talk) 05:13, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * well but I think thats excatly the case now. the table looks all over the place with the bold, italics and underlined letters now. When I first saw it i seriously thought it was vandalism. Why changing something that worked so well before when you? It really takes some time to see why every name is written in different ways when you already have a coloured background cell for each of these scenarios anyway. Is it only for the sake of a merged cell (which would still not work in a lot of ways then and looks horrible) for an event that occured TWICE in 13 Cycles of ANTM? I am strongly opposed to these recent changes that were done to the call out table as it makes it much more complicated to read and adds some difersify to it that is not really needed. And this argument that Jennifer should be listed before Erin is really ridicolous. Should we really change an entire concept only because some user is offended that one girl is listed above the other whereas both still went at the same time?! Shameless (talk) 12:43, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, girls being called together happened 5 times already (which is more often than say: a girl getting immunity, a girl being saved from elimination after winning the challenge, a girl quitting, a girl winning two challenges, a girl skipping the photoshoot and being saved or not, all of which have their very own color). So it's quite ridiculous to use this as a reason not to fuse the cells. And fusing the cells and making the table color-blind-friendly are two separate things. If the consensus were to undo those changes (which it currently is not) I'd still be in favor of merging the cells and against bolding joint call-outs.--Whadaheck (talk) 14:50, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand the reasoning behind this was to aid the color-blind, as with the same thing that happened to the Amazing Race articles. I've no opinion on the aesthetics. ZephyrWind (talk) 11:58, 13 December 2009 (UTC)