Talk:American Foundation for Suicide Prevention

Factual error
The introductory paragraph in this piece is factually wrong. It was not founded "by a group of experts on suicide who wanted to create a 501(c)3 organization to fund research in suicide prevention."

I would like assistance in editing the above statement to more accurately reflect the founding of this organization, uisng the information that follows:

I founded and incorporated the original organization, which was then named the American Suicide Association, on January 21, 1987 in the state of Delaware. The authentication number from the Secretary of State's office is 1090145. The founding board, which I appointed, consisted of three professionals from the field of mental health, a businessman from the real estate industry whose son had commited suicide while in college, and myself (at that time an investment banker). All had been recruited by me to this new organization.

I have documentary evidence that confirms the foregoing.

Edward P. Brennan

Epbrennan (talk) 23:41, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, the information in question comes from the AFSP website, and I have now added a specific citation to it. If you have documents we can cite that state something to the contrary, we can add that information to the article. (Wikipedia is not in the business of deciding which of conflicting sources are true, but we can represent them both.) What sources can you provide? I and others will be glad to assist you in adding the information, if it is published. Aleta  Sing 03:25, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi Aleta, I am a rank novice to this site and appreciate the assistance you have offered. In support of the description of the founding of the AFSP (actually the predecessor organization whose name was changed), I can provide the following: the Certificate of Incorporation of American Suicide Assocation signed by me as the incorporator on January 16, 1987 and the accompanying certification by the Secretay of State, Michael Harkins, that the certificate of incorporation is a true and correct copy filed in his office on January 21, 1987, and authenticated on January 22, 1987 with authentication number 1090145. In addition, I can provide a copy of (1) the resolutions adopted at the first meeing of the founding board of directors on February 6, 1987, including the naming the founding members of the board,signed by Maria Ramirez; (2) the Bylaws of the ASA dated February 2, 1987 and signed by Maria Ramirez; and (3) the Authorization for Corporate Checking Account listing all officers and signed by Maria Ramirez on February 20, 1987. Finally, I have letters on their corporate letterhead from Donald Lamm, President, W.W. Norton & Company, and Joel J. Weiss, EVP, Burger King Corporation addressed to me concerning matters of the ASA, as well as a copy of a letter I sent to Thomas S. Johnson, President, Chemical Bank on the letterhead of the ASA.

Last, the letterhead of the ASA referred to in the preceding paragraph clearly shows that the mission of the ASA was for "Research... Prevention... Education..." and not solely to fund research. The AFSP web site states that a number of leading experts on suicide came together with business and community leaders and survivors of suicide to form AFSP. This is fantasy. I worked like hell to recruit people to this nacent organization, and as the resolutions referred to above will show, there were only five people on the founding board (including me!).

Plese let me know how I can get copies of these documents to you. Thank you. Ed Brennan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Epbrennan (talk • contribs) 23:04, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Criticism section
Hi All,

I think a sentence in the Criticism section could be better worded. "The piece goes on to say that AFSP excluded from its walks violence prevention groups that promoted gun control, and that AFSP excludes the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence from donating or participating.[11]

The sentence has a reference (currently 11) which goes to an article in the NYT which is a pay site. I was confused by 'AFSP excluded from its walks'-- I thought it was a typo & thought it was supposed to be 'talks'-- but it means I think suicide prevention talks. Someone who has access to the online NYT should read through the article & see if changing 'talks' to 'suicide prevention talks' would fit the facts to make the sentence a little clearer. Thanks. SaturnCat (talk) 05:58, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Cleanup of lead section
Hi Wikipedia editors, I'd like to suggest edits to address the style and tone issues highlighted for this article, as well as the issues noted around primary sources on behalf of my client, American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. I'm hoping to collaborate on objective updates to the page based on 3rd party sources and am therefore simply suggesting updates, but I will not edit the page directly myself. We are looking to provide updates for the majority of the page to answer the issues in full, but will break them up by section to allow for easier reviewing. Below are the first of the suggested page updates. Thank you for your time and consideration! Suggested New Page Copy:

The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention (AFSP) is a voluntary health organization that advocates for research and education around suicide. Based in New York City, it is the largest private funder of suicide prevention research, having awarded more than $24 million in research grants. The stated goals of the foundation are to educate the public about mental health and suicide prevention, support survivors of suicide loss, fund scientific research, and advocate for public policies around mental health and suicide prevention. In addition to the national headquarters in New York City, the foundation also has a Public Policy office in Washington, D.C., as well as local chapters in all 50 states in the U.S., the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico. Through its local chapters and volunteer network, AFSP provides local communities with support services for survivors of suicide loss, educational programs for schools , workplaces and other places in the community, and awareness and fundraising events such as the Out of the Darkness Walks. The Public Policy office uses volunteer Field Advocates to support mental health and suicide prevention legislation and policies at the federal, state and local level.

JAustenFan (talk) 18:53, 4 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Exact, verbatim descriptions of any text and/or references to be removed should also be given with the request. When ready to proceed with the requested information, kindly change the ' template's answer parameter to read from y to n. Please note that prior text entered in the Edit request proposal should not be retro-actively altered. Instead, a new reply post supplying the needed information should be posted below this review. The original ' template may then be altered.

Regards, Spintendo  19:02, 24 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you, @Spintendo! Appreciate your guidance on how best to suggest updates to the page. Will follow the correct procedure below. 174.17.177.247 (talk) 15:42, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Edit request

 * Opening Section


 * History Section


 * JAustenFan (talk) 18:31, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Reasons should be provided for each change. Regards, Spintendo  23:15, 7 September 2023 (UTC)


 * @Spintendo We have provided reasons for change below. The changes we have suggested are broad and act as more or less an update of the current information on the page, as well as providing more context and information around the organization. Happy to provide this info in any way needed to best serve the editors. Thanks! JAustenFan (talk) 17:26, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

*Reason for the change: Updating the page to answer the current issues marked on the page, including content that is written like an advertisement, article relies excessively on references to primary sources, and article's tone or style may not reflect the encyclopedic tone used on Wikipedia. We have updated the section's tone to be more neutral in line with the required tone and have included more third-party sources.

Updates also include more information around AFSP, including celebrity participants in past events, as well as updated financial information, including 2022 financials,. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JAustenFan (talk • contribs) 17:31, 19 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Reasons need to be provided for each change. Guidance states "If the rationale for a change is not obvious (particularly for proposed deletions), explain." The wording "a change" suggests an individual change, as opposed to a broad swath of changes. Since your proposed changes would necessitate the deletion of a large amount of text, these changes should all have individual reasons. Also, it is required that you sign all posts on the talk page. Your last post did not include a signature. If you have any questions about either of these requirements, please don't hesitate to ask. Regards, Spintendo  19:43, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your advice and support, @Spintendo. Want to make sure we are providing the editors with all info needed. We have updated the request below to provide more specific insights into the changes and additions requested. JAustenFan (talk) 22:02, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Opening Section Edit Request

 * Opening Section

Reason for Change Adding in greater context around AFSP, including new financial data around research grants i.e. "more than $24 million in research grants." Also, providing more third-party sources. While not factually incorrect, the current copy can be expanded with more information about the organization, including its stated mission and goals, which we have expanded on above.

Reason for Change/Addition Adding in more information around AFSP, some of which does not currently exist on the page, including the services they provide and where they provide them. Including more third-party sources as well.

Reason for Change/Addition Adding in more information around AFSP's Public Policy office and volunteer advocates as volunteer advocates are currently not discussed on the current AFSP page. Including more third-party sources as well.JAustenFan (talk) 21:59, 18 September 2023 (UTC) JAustenFan (talk) 21:59, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for providing the individual reasons, it's much appreciated. I'll be reviewing this request shortly. Regards, Spintendo  08:00, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Reply 23-SEP-2023

 * Below you will see where proposals from your request have been quoted with reviewer decisions and feedback inserted underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please read the enclosed notes within the proposal review section below for information on each request.

Regards, Spintendo  22:09, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Additional changes made: Certain promotional phrasing used in the article was removed. As a result, the maintenance template was deleted.

Update founding member language

 * What I think should be changed:

Current Copy: "The organization was founded in 1987 as the "American Suicide Association," by Edward Brennan."

Proposed Copy: "The organization was founded in 1987 when founding members decided to the create AFSP in order to establish a private source of support for suicide research, education, and prevention efforts that could be sustained into the future."
 * Why it should be changed: Can find no third-party documentation showing Edward Brennan as the sole founding member of AFSP as is currently written. The current source cites Brennan himself as its main source for this information. Below source shows AFSP was formed by multiple researchers. Also, I can find no third-party sources that show AFSP started as the American Suicide Association, while source below details it began as the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention at that time.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): Source cited below shows that AFSP was formed in 1987 by "leading suicide researchers joined with families who had lost a loved one to suicide to form the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention (AFSP)."

JAustenFan (talk) 16:48, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

JAustenFan (talk) 16:48, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The sentence was rephrased to give only the date of foundation. Regards,  Spintendo  20:42, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Update to Charity Navigator Financial Data
Current Copy: "According to a Charity Navigator rating published in September 2018, more than 83% of the organization's finances went towards program expenses (based on financial data from fiscal year 2017), receiving a perfect rating for accountability and transparency."
 * What I think should be changed:

Proposed Copy Updates: "According to a Charity Navigator rating published in 2023, more than 81% of the organization's finances went towards program expenses (based on financial data from fiscal year 2022), receiving a perfect rating for accountability and transparency. "
 * Why it should be changed: Updating financial information to the most recent year.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): Reference to Charity Navigator's updated data.

JAustenFan (talk) 16:18, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

JAustenFan (talk) 16:18, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Reply 5-OCT-2023
Spintendo 22:30, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Update to financial contributions to most current data
Current Copy: "For 2018, AFSP received $37 million in financial contributions from 700,000 new and returning donors."
 * What I think should be changed:

Proposed Copy Updated: "In 2022, AFSP received $44 million in financial contributions from donors that helped fund the organization's education, research and advocacy programs. " .
 * Why it should be changed: Update to most current financials for AFSP. Also removing donor count as can find no current sources showcasing number for 2022. Also, proposing new copy to show the types of program categories outlined in the report that donations funded.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): Reference is most recent AFSP Annual Report

JAustenFan (talk) 16:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

JAustenFan (talk) 16:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Reply 5-OCT-2023
Regards, Spintendo  19:11, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The provided URL to the 2022 Annual report is a summary page which does not display any information which can be used to verify the requested text.

Lifesavers Gala Addition to History Section

 * What I think should be changed: Proposing additions to copy in "History" section.

Proposed Content: "AFSP hosts the annual Lifesavers Gala to raise funds for suicide prevention programs. In 2011, Joan Rivers, who served as an AFSP honorary director, hosted the gala along with her daughter Melissa Rivers. Other notable hosts and guests in recent years include journalists Cindy Hsu and Kate Snow, actor Hasan Minhaj,  actress Mariel Hemingway,  musician Alex Boyé  and actor Gideon Glick. Lifesavers Gala honorees have included Ashley Judd, Anderson Cooper,  Courtney B. Vance,  Kenneth Cole, David Axelrod  and Karl Rove. "
 * Why it should be added: Lifesavers Gala is an annual event for AFSP that is not currently mentioned on the page. Due to its high-profile hosts and honorees, it is an event worth noting on their page.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): References cite the specific events each host/honoree was associated with.

JAustenFan (talk) 17:42, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

JAustenFan (talk) 17:42, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Reply 5-OCT-2023
Regards, Spintendo  19:11, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The Lifesavers Gala does not appear to be independently notable in Wikipedia. If this is not the case, kindly provide the WikiLink to the Gala's Wikipedia page.


 * @Spintendo Thank you for the feedback. If you could clarify, I'm seeing a section in the link above that mentions "Notability guidelines do not apply to content within articles or lists" and was under the impression that article contents don't always need to meet that notability level of warranting its own page, so want to make sure I'm understanding how notability works in terms of suggested updates.
 * The Lifesavers Gala does not have it own Wikipedia page thus potentially not rising to the measure of "notability" but due to its relevance to the organization and with its association with high-profile people and media coverage, it seems to warrant inclusion into the page based on general Wikipedia criteria. Please let me know your thoughts. JAustenFan (talk) 15:51, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Spintendo Hello! Wanted to follow up to see what your thoughts were on the above. We have other programs and initiatives that we'd like to include on the page, but want to make sure we are understanding the Wikipedia guidelines correctly. JAustenFan (talk) 17:01, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Spintendo Hello! Wanted to follow up on the above. Please let me know if we should make the COI request again or if you can provide any further insights into the Notability guidelines. Thanks! JAustenFan (talk) 20:26, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

(Revised) Lifesavers Gala Addition to History Section
Proposed Content: "AFSP hosts the annual Lifesavers Gala to raise funds for suicide prevention programs. In 2011, Joan Rivers, who served as an AFSP honorary director, hosted the gala along with her daughter Melissa Rivers. Other notable hosts and guests in recent years include journalists Cindy Hsu and Kate Snow, actor Hasan Minhaj,  actress Mariel Hemingway,  musician Alex Boyé  and actor Gideon Glick. Lifesavers Gala honorees have included Ashley Judd, Anderson Cooper,  Courtney B. Vance,  Kenneth Cole, David Axelrod  and Karl Rove. " JAustenFan (talk) 17:39, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * What I think should be changed: Proposing additions to copy in "History" section.
 * Why it should be added: The Lifesavers Gala is an annual event for AFSP that is not currently mentioned on the page. Due to its high-profile hosts and honorees, and subsequent media coverage, we believe it warrants inclusion on the page. Based on the Notability guidelines, we believe this addition is warranted based on its newsworthiness without necessitating a separate Wikipedia article, however, open to editor feedback based on previous feedback above.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): References cite the specific events each host/honoree was associated with.

JAustenFan (talk) 17:39, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The gala itself is not notable. if the gala had its own Wikipedia page, that would be strong evidence to support the idea that this event is important enough to be mentioned in the article. Virtually all of the references provided which are discussing this event are from the organization itself (except for one). Wikipedia is a collection of information on what reliable secondary sources say about an organizations, not what the organization says about itself. The single acceptable reference you provided from CBS News doesn't have the ability to cover all of the salient facts mentioned in your proposal. If it did have that ability, it likely would have been the only one you suggested using in the request. My suggestion would be to trim down the information so that the CBS news article can be the sole source used. Regards, Spintendo  23:07, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, @Spintendo! Will make the suggested update request. JAustenFan (talk) 18:30, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Requested Updates to "Programs" section (Survivor Day)

 * What I think should be changed:

Current Copy: "International Survivors of Suicide Loss Day (also known as "Survivor Day") is an event organized by AFSP. Originally introduced as "National Survivors of Suicide Loss Day" in 1999, when United States Sen. Harry Reid—himself a survivor of suicide loss—formally introduced a resolution to the Senate, the day is officially observed annually on the Saturday before American Thanksgiving."

Proposed Copy Changes: "International Survivors of Suicide Loss Day (also known as "Survivor Day") is a Congressionally designated day each year to bring together people who have lost loved ones to suicide organized by AFSP . Originally introduced as "National Survivors of Suicide Loss Day" in 1999, when United States Sen. Harry Reid—himself a survivor of suicide loss—formally introduced a resolution to the Senate, the day is officially observed annually on the Saturday before American Thanksgiving. AFSP sponsors local Survivor Day events every year. "


 * Why it should be changed: Request updates to paragraph to include the day's Congressional designation, remove reference to AFSP "organizing" the event, and include more context around the purpose of the event. AFSP supports local events but the larger event is not directly organized solely by AFSP as currently stated. Also, request to include reference to how AFSP supports Survivor Day events.


 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): Local news source cited for event around Survivor Day.

JAustenFan (talk) 16:24, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

JAustenFan (talk) 16:24, 16 November 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ The language has been modified to reflect that the organization occasionally co-sponsors these events (as per the provided source) rather than being wholly organized by AFSP. Regards, Spintendo  01:27, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested updates to "Programs" section (Additional programs)

 * What I think should be changed:

Current Copy: Programs designed to educate the larger public about suicide and prevention best practices, such as Talk Saves Lives: An Introduction to Suicide Prevention, are offered by AFSP under the umbrella of prevention education and provide a general understanding of suicide, including its scope and what can be done to prevent it.

Proposed Copy Changes: Programs designed to educate the larger public about suicide and prevention best practices, such as Talk Saves Lives: An Introduction to Suicide Prevention, More Than Sad and the LGBTQ-focused Stronger Communities program, are offered by AFSP under the umbrella of prevention education and provide a general understanding of suicide, including its scope and what can be done to prevent it.


 * Why it should be changed: Current copy discusses programs offered by AFSP. Request to add in two notable programs offered by AFSP.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): Cited sources are the School Mental Health Journal and an article promoting the Stronger Communities program at UMBC.

JAustenFan (talk) 17:34, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

JAustenFan (talk) 17:34, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The references provided for this claim are (1) a blog and (2) a study which contained the following disclaimer: This study was funded by a contract from the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. If these had references from reliable independent secondary sources it might seem include-able, without them it seems promotional. With regards to this paragraph in particular, I think simply mentioning that the organization engages with communities through various individual and specialty programs with the goal of suicide prevention works better than listing each program by name, since these names can change periodically, while the underlying goals behind the programs remain the same. (Regards, Spintendo  18:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! We'll revisit if more major media coverage becomes available around any of these programs. JAustenFan (talk) 19:55, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Addition to Programs Section - Soul Shop for Black Churches

 * What I think should be added:

Proposed New Copy: In 2022, AFSP launched Soul Shop ™ for Black Churches, a new training to help faith leaders in Black and African-American churches minister to those in their congregations about suicide and suicide prevention. This training is in partnership with the Soul Shop ™ Movement.


 * Why it should be added: Soul Shop for Black Churches has garnered significant media coverage since it was launched last year.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): Cited in text

JAustenFan (talk) 19:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

JAustenFan (talk) 19:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The TM symbol is not used in articles. Regards, Spintendo  23:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Spintendo We have updated the text to show the TM as being removed. Thanks! JAustenFan (talk) 17:23, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Spintendo Quick follow up to see if you had any further feedback on the request? JAustenFan (talk) 18:30, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Reply shown two sections below. Spintendo  02:53, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Addition to Programs Section - Project 2025

 * What I think should be added:

Proposed Copy:  In 2015, AFSP announced “Project 2025.” The project aims to reduce the national suicide rate by 20% by 2025, targeting four critical prevention areas: firearms, healthcare systems, emergency departments and correctional systems.


 * Why it should be added: Multiple news sources and organizations have written about Project 2025 and its programs around suicide prevention.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): Sources cited above.

JAustenFan (talk) 19:45, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

JAustenFan (talk) 19:45, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Reply shown one section below. Spintendo  02:53, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

New Advocacy Section - Add Annual Advocacy Forum

 * What I think should be added:

Proposed copy: 

Annual Advocacy Forum
The AFSP Advocacy Forum is held each year in Washington, D.C. At the forum, advocates learn about the federal policies that can prevent suicide and improve mental health. Advocates also attend meetings with U.S. Senate and House offices to champion AFSP’s policy priorities.


 * Why it should be added: Third-party news sources highlight annual forum. Suggest creating new "Advocacy" section since this might not fall under current sections.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): Sources cited above with ESPN article highlighting the forum in 5th to last paragraph.

JAustenFan (talk) 21:35, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

JAustenFan (talk) 21:35, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I have concerns about these three requests, which all seem promotional to me. Project 2025 is one of the Foundation's self-imposed targets, which is really an internal, organization-wide aspirational concept rather than a simple factoid. The Advocacy forum, while itself being quite aspirational, seems promotional as well. The ESPN article mentioning it feels more like the information was given to Nick Wagoner rather than this information spontaneously originating from Wagoner's own reporting. There is a box listing all of the events with the caption: "A breakdown of the events the Thomases have been in or will be involved in since losing Ella to suicide in January of 2018:" where 5 of the 9 events are AFSP associated. ESPN is a reliable source for sports topics, stats, etc. I would not consider them to be a reliable source on charitable organizations in the way that, say, The Times-Picayune/The New Orleans Advocate would be. The Parkersburg News and Sentinal source states right on the page where this story is "From staff reports - editoral@newsandsentinel.com" which to me, indicates that this reporting is coming from that newspaper's editorial desk. Regards, Spintendo  02:53, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Spintendo Thanks for the feedback. Understand your perspective. These edits are not meant to be promotional but understand if they read that way. As a non-profit who works to decrease suicide, these edits are merely meant to educate readers about the org's work. Happy to rework the content though to focus more on the real world consequences of this work i.e. the CVS-Aetna insurance changes and the presentations given around gun-related suicide, which are mentioned in the sources provided. Can also rework the copy around the Soul Shop for Black Churches.
 * For the question around the source on the Parkersburg News and Sentinal  in reviewing their contact us page, the editorial email is just their newsroom email. I'm not seeing any other email that would denote that the use of that email means the article is more "editorial" vs straight reporting.
 * Let me know your thoughts on the above proposal. JAustenFan (talk) 16:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)