Talk:An Experiment on a Bird in the Air Pump

Wrong Henry Power
The Henry Power*s* linked to is an American born 150 years too late.

It seems that the Halifax air pump, if it existed, would have belonged to a Henry Power (no s) (1626-1668) of New Hall, Elland.

See  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.68.155.89 (talk) 22:34, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, that looks correct to me. I've inserted a hidden warning in the page that will hopefully prevent the mistake from reappearing. Thanks for pointing that out! Awadewit | talk  22:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

hows it work?
well how did it work?? little more information please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.142.163.7 (talk) 07:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC).
 * Well you get some paint, and you put it on a brush, which you then touch to a canvas. Is this what you meant? Capuchin 14:39, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I assume unsigned meant how did the the apparatus or experiment work, and assume capuchin is being a facetious, but I'm not sure. It seems like the experiment is described in sufficient detail as it relates to the painting: air is sucked out of the bird's chamber, and at the time, death was attributed to lack of essential air. Seems reasonable, specifically lack of oxygen, though perhaps death is due to lower air pressure causing some other problem, like [decompression sickness] in scuba diving or something. The mechanics of the equipment are not described well here, but that doesn't seem too central to the article. This non-authoritative page has a decent two sentence summary: "Air was ratcheted out from a cylinder and piston attached through a stopcock to the receptacle. After each cylinder of air was evacuated, the stopcock was closed and the ratchet and piston reset." Perhaps something like that could be worked into the article? Agyle 15:35, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

is the picture supposed to be like that
is the picture supposed to be like that Tikai 13:47, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Like what? Agyle 21:17, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Can we lock this article please
There's bunch of vandalism happening
 * It looks like about a hundred changes were made (vandalism and undoing vandalism) on the day of this entry, 2007-07-21. It was the featured article on that day, and attracted more attention. The following day the vandalism stopped, so this seems to be a closed issue. Agyle 15:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC) Update: I see it was protected in some form on July 22, for a period of seven days. Agyle 21:17, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Depicting Science in Art
"The Air Pump [1768] departed from previous painting conventions by depicting a scientific subject in the reverential manner formerly reserved for scenes of historical and religious significance."

Compare this with

“In 1632, Rembrandt painted his first group portrait, The Anatomy Lesson of Dr. Nicolaes Tulp. This painting, which depicts Dr. Tulp demonstrating the anatomy of the hand to fellow members of the Amsterdam Surgeons’ Guild, secured Rembrandt’s reputation by introducing to the staid genre of group portraiture some of the anecdotal interest and narrative action of a history painting … “

Stephanie S. Dickey, Dutch Art: An Encyclopedia ed Muller, Garland 1997

“Shortly after the turn of the seventeenth century, surgeons began to commission group portraits of themselves seated around a dissection or an anatomy lesson. Rembrandt’s Anatomy Lesson of Dr. Tulp is the best-known example of the genre painted also by Aert Pieterz., Thomas de Keyser, and Nicolas Eliasz Pickenoy.”

Ann Jensen Adams, Dutch Art: An Encyclopedia ed Muller, Garland 1997

The statement may be true for British painitng conventions, but I doubt it; can this either be validated or updated? Thanks, appreciated.

Arvwd 19:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Questions

 * Are the lovers truly "absorbed in each other"? When I look at the painting, I feel like they've just turned to look at one another to compare their reactions, so that one won't say something that the other would disapprove of.
 * Absorbed isn't the word I'd use. I interpreted the look differently still; perhaps a more neutral, less debatable description would describe as simply looking at one another rather than being absorbed by one another. Agyle 21:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Is the experiment intended simply to asphyxiate the bird? You could asphyxiate a rat just as easily.  I'm inclined to think that the elaborate glass enclosure is intended to make it uncomfortable for the bird to perch, so that it flaps its wings to stay aloft - and the purpose of the experiment is to see how often the bird has to flap its wings at a given air pressure in order to remain flying.  Asphyxiation might not even be a part of the experiment at all.
 * That makes sense, as flying ability was noted in his experiments on insects, but notes and conclusions from Boyle's Experiment 41 dealt only with the question of death, not of flying ability. (ExperHe did use mice, snails, eels and bees as well; birds were just one type of subject. Why the painter and/or repeaters of the experiment chose a bird is another question. See Lecture 12 for more notes on the experiment. Agyle 21:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The picture and article disagree - is it AN air pump or THE air pump? 204.186.19.105 20:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It should be THE air pump; the image title is in error. I'd also note that the image scan crops out some of the painting, and is too dark to pick up some of the details. Its copyright attribution seems highly questionable as well, claiming it's not copyrighted because the image is over 100 years old. The painting is that old, but the reproduction (photograph etc.) of the painting probably is not, and under US law, the copyright on the reproduction would be held by whomever created that. Agyle 21:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC) Update: This was legally clarified in 1999, and the image is under the public domain, according to The Bridgeman Art Library, Ltd., Plaintiff, versus -Corel Corporation, et ano., Defendants. Agyle 21:33, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Is the object in the glass vessel at foreground centre really a skull?
 * I have argued with the National Gallery staff that it is much more likely to be a lung or a pair of lungs (human, or from another large animal). Why store a skull in liquid? Why mount it on a stick? What relevance has a skull to the experiment in progress? The artist has accurately rendered the stick, even showing the effect of refraction as it breaks the surface of the liquid, yet the object is an amorphous lump which does not look like a skull. Surely this must be soft tissue, and if it is, a lung is by far the most relevant possibility. It even looks like a pair of lungs with the stick stuck in the stub of the windpipe to top left. An intriguing possibility is that the stick is actually a tube and the pump has earlier been connected to this to demonstrate respiration by inflating and deflating the lungs. This would account for the pensive study of the old gentleman front right as well as would a skull. JohnAHind (talk) 15:53, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This seems plausible, & gets some support from here. but I need a better ref to add it. The identification of the object as a skull only dates to Schupbach 1987, accoring to Egerton 1998. Johnbod (talk) 00:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

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File:An Experiment on a Bird in an Air Pump by Joseph Wright of Derby, 1768.jpg and subsequent to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:An Experiment on a Bird in an Air Pump by Joseph Wright of Derby, 1768.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on May 8, 2017. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2017-05-08. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:24, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Erasmus Darwin's house
I removed this from the article:


 * Erasmus Darwin's study in his original house survives at Beacon St, Lichfield WS13 7AD, and is recognisable as the site of the painting. The eight-paned window is unchanged; the door position remains as depicted in the painting, though the architrave is missing. A full moon can be seen from this room at the same bearing and inclination as in the painting, just after midnight when the moon is full. Darwin's "philosophical feasts" that started with the afternoon meal often carried on throughout the night.

Unfortunately, no source is given, and I can't at a quick glance find any source (other than those obviously copying Wikipedia) asserting that the location of the painting has been identified as Darwin's house. This is a well-known painting, so if it is generally understood that its location has been positively identified, it shouldn't be hard to find a source before reintroducing this. TSP (talk) 18:45, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Why do think the painting back then meant differently Dear.Jang (talk) 21:32, 1 February 2023 (UTC)