Talk:Ara Abrahamian

armenian
yes we get the message, he is armenian, born in armenia and of armenian descent.


 * Just put armenia or armenian ONCE in the article please Sennen goroshi (talk) 18:03, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I also wondered where this guy came from - as soon as I read the news articles in today's news about this guy, I thought to myself, "That doesn't sound like a Swedish name", and so I went to Wikipedia to see where he is really from, and - like so many times - I found Wikipedia to be lacking - so I went to the Discussion page, and, alas, I find that it is apparently not politically correct to note that the guy is Armenian. Oh well, another black mark against Wikipedia.  I wonder when this web portal will become totally useless?  Does Wikipedia have a page that addresses that???  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.159.186 (talk) 18:52, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Bah. What the heck is the problem to say that he's Armenian. I'll just put that.In Harmonia Progressio! (talk) 18:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You have put every single notable detail about him that you wish. However don't put it in the lead. Make a background section, and put every relevant detail you wish in there. Minor details such as these do not belong in the lead and will be removed. Sennen goroshi (talk) 04:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * He is a naturalised Swede of Armenian descent. Not more complicated than that. And not politically controversial, at least not in Sweden. If you were to apply ethnical definition on peoples nationality there wouldn't be many americans hanging around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.181.248.5 (talk) 09:13, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions for improving this article
Several of the links appear to be dead. I can only note tonight that they could be better checked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.58.106.50 (talk) 06:06, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

As a frequent Wiki user/editor, my opinion on biography pages is the more specific, the better. If I may add my two cents, here are some things this article could use to improve it: 1) At least one photo 2) More background information, i.e. childhood, Olympic training, etc. 3) Who did he wrestle against in each instance mentioned? 4) You might consider moving the summary section that talks about his rejection of the bronze medal to the article section. The summary should give the basic details about the person while the article should give the specifics. *momoricks* (talk) 06:25, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

He is cited wrong in that article. He said that the Italians hadn't taken at goldmedal in twenty years. NOT ever... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fader Berg (talk • contribs) 19:02, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

"Abrahamian complained about the "corrupt judging" in his semifinal bout and declared that he was retiring from the sport saying, "This will be my last match" and "I don't care about this medal. I wanted gold." Abrahamian then went into a child-like fit and angrily claimed that the judges had been bribed, and reminded that the judge through marriage is related to Raphaël Martinetti, the President of FILA, the governing body of wrestling.[9]" Complained, child-like, angrily, reminded though marriage. This is an encyclopedia, totally inappropriate language. 68.224.207.54 (talk) 17:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The most POV statement "child-like" was made right before the write errors on Wikipedia occurred today which explains why the statement lasted so long. However this entire section needs to be reviewed and compaired to the source it is citing. It goes both ways, the article contains POV statements in both directions of the argument. 68.224.207.54 (talk) 17:48, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The entire "hand in the blue zone" affair is, at least, questionable. There are no affordable sources that claim this was the cause of the referees' decision. The members of the Swedish Olympic Commitee, in their request to the COS, stated that the FILA gave them different explanations, and the same article cited as source, really, stated that the referee motivated the decision with an unfair blocking move that Abrhamian allegedly made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.15.70.149 (talk) 13:37, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

whas it a bad call from the judges?
i think it should be mentioned in detail why he objected, and if the judges made a real mistake  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.97.18.155 (talk) 17:52, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think it was a mistake, but it seems many think it was in error.


 * http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/os2008/article3105274.ab:
 * Leo Mylläri är nöjd dagen efter kaoset och all uppståndelse.
 * – Vi har startat en liten revolution. Redan i går kom det fram väldigt, väldigt många ledare och domare och kramade om oss för att vi sagt ifrån.


 * Leo Mylläri (Ara's coach): We've started a small revolution. Already yesterday there were very, very many leaders and judges coming up to us and hugging us for protesting.


 * http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/os2008/article3104791.ab:
 * Pelle Svensson - a former (Swedish) FILA representative who left his seat in protest when FILA didn't even bring up his notion to have the judges to the games decided randomly rather than by appointment: ”Solklar penningmuta” (Painfully obvious bribing)


 * http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/os2008/article3104869.ab:
 * A swedish wrestling judge tried to call Ara to warn him before the match, because he was convinced the judges would be unfavorable to him since he was up against an Italian.


 * I'm Swedish, so the media I'm getting may be biased, but I haven't found articles discussing this seriously elsewhere. Many consider him a crybaby :P Some pages say he had won the game but got it changed afterwards, that wasn't quite the case, he'd just won the second 'period', making it 1-1 and one period left, and the decision got changed after the period was over, which apparently isn't supposed to happen in wrestling. Lejman (talk) 10:53, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

The section describing the dispute is not clear. "After two hours the person from FILA, had not understood anything because he couldn't speak english. He merely read some lines from a paper he had written in french" What does that mean, exactly?Mzmadmike (talk) 17:26, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I also wondered about this, so I checked the translation of the article. In my understanding it means, that there was a representative from the FILA present on the hearing, about whom it turned out after 1.5 hours into the hearing that he could not speak English, when the chairman issued him some question. And afterwards he likely read some statement in French from a paper. And it seems that this whole issue was declared by Abrahamian himself in a post-hearing interview, so in my opinion it should be mentioned to try to keep NPOV.
 * Also about the match report, statements like "his opponent had his whole body into the blue zone and not penalized" and "judges refused to watch the video" seems to be somewhat pressing the reader towards the view that the match was corrupted, plus the corresponding references are all from Swedish papers. I am not a wrestling expert and I don't know what the rules tell, so I wouldn't like to modify these parts, but maybe someone knows more about it, could check this and do changes when necessary.
 * Gruen (talk) 15:50, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Tantrum
Is there a category for Tantrums in sports? I think of the chair throwing of Bobby Knight.I already see 483 Google hits for Abrahamian tantrum and 10 for Abrahamian "dummy spit." Google News has 3 hits for Abrahamian tantrum.Edison (talk) 04:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you really consider the term "tantrum" to be NPOV and worthy of wikipedia? Sennen goroshi (talk) 16:33, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It was used by several well regarded news sources. If it is refereenced to reliable sources, it is appropriate and NPOV. Edison (talk) 19:42, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I dont think what Ara did was a tantrum. He casually laid down his medal and told the world that this entire match was fixed. Ive wrestled for 7 years of my life and i can tell you that this match was exactly that; fixed and not in the "spirit" of the games. The ref on the floor gave the match to Ara, but the 2 judges off the mat called a blocking penalty(ill give money to anyone who can point it out) and gave the point to the italian. I am never watching the Olympics again, they are full of crap and this controversy in conjunction with the BLATANT chinese lie about their gymnists ages all but closed to deal to how truely full of crap the olympics are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.224.140.166 (talk) 00:03, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Your opinion amounts to original research. This is not a blog forum for experssing personal opinions. Edison (talk) 19:24, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It may not be suitable for a wikipedia article.. so good thing he wrote it here instead? =) I thought this part was for opinions. Either way, to me, his comment was quite useful. I don't like relying on news articles by, often not fully involved, news reporters to make the rule calls. When I read the article at http://uk.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idUKPEK17319620080814?sp=true  for instance, Ara really did come across as a whiney person who couldn't handle losing a normal game.  The comment above strengtens the view that it wasn't JUST that, at least. Lejman (talk) 20:01, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Retirement
Isn't it a little soon to say he's retired? Okay, so he blew up at the Olympics; is it really realistic to assume that whatever he said in the heat of the moment means anything?--Prosfilaes (talk) 15:54, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * He has said many times before that he intends to retire after the 2008 Olympics, no matter the result. /Slarre (talk) 23:33, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Do we have a reference for that? Cordless Larry (talk) 12:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

CAS
He's going to CAS to get the match result reviewed... but not his own disqualification, nor the medal distribution :P http://www.thelocal.se/13824/20080820/ Lejman (talk) 20:06, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * CAS gives Ara Abrahamian right (on several points) - http://www.tas-cas.org/en/infogenerales.asp/4-3-1846-1092-4-1-1/5-0-1092-15-1-1/ This doesn't change the medal distribution etc.Lejman (talk) 16:17, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There is no trace, in the CAS Decision, that: "Abrahamian should have been given one more period of the match", and even the period: "The judges did wrong in not listening to the Swedish protests" can be easily misinterpreted (as "listen" can be easily interpreted as "agree"). The Panel, clearly stated that the decision did not challenge the outcome of the match and the technical judgment at all, but only the functioning of the appeal mechanism of the FILA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.59.184.117 (talk) 02:21, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Rejected or Stripped of medal?
Which is it? He rejected it first and later the IOC "stripped" him of it. But how does one strip something from someone strip a medal from a person who does not have said medal? Gateman1997 (talk) 23:08, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a good question :P Well, he didn't mind getting the medal to count to him (or the country?), but IOC's decision included deducting the medal from those counts as well. His protest wasn't aimed at IOC in the first place, but at FILA, which makes matters even more complex :P Lejman (talk) 23:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter that he didn't want it, he won bronze and thats it. At least it would have been until they stripped him of it and he officially disqualified and so officially lost the medal he didn't want. The answer is therefore stripped. EchetusXe (talk) 13:22, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

CAS press release?
I could not find the three items in the cited press release. It might be from the full decision. Please clarify. Vesal (talk) 18:35, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Reading the full arbitration it seems that you're right. I now changed the link to point the arbitration instead of the press release Gruen (talk) 19:23, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Watch the video
As a neutral I had never seen the bout before till I watched it on Youtube. I must admit that Ara Abrahamian was all over the guy for most of the match. Furthermore the Italian was almost completely in the blue zone at one point - without penalty. It therefore makes the ruling to award the match to the Italian very questionable indeed based on a single hand incident. The hearings that followed also seem to be a complete whitewash because they do not attempt to justify the ruling only condemn the actions of Abrahamian. As someone else noted, this incident stinks of corruption but this article does not reflect the wide spread feeling of people in the sport wrestling that this was a travesty.

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