Talk:Association football/Archive 11

Clarification of the rules
I think the following sentence could be clarified:

The object of the game is to score by manoeuvring the ball into the opposing goal; only the goalkeepers may use their hands or arms to propel the ball in general play.

Perhaps it could be enhanced to something like:

The object of the game is to score by manoeuvring the ball into the opposing goal. Only the goalkeepers may use their hands or arms to propel the ball in general play; the remaining players typically propel the ball using their feet to kick the ball into position, though occasionally they may use their torso or head to intercept or redirect a ball in the air.

Nebu Pookins 21:58, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * That's not really right either. An outfield player may use any part of the body except arms and hands and it is frequent that head, chest or knees are used, not occasional. Also, the object of the game is not purely to score goals, it is specifically to outscore your opponents. A defender for example plays with little ambition to score a goal - his role is to prevent the opponents from doing so.


 * I'll suggest -- Goals are scored by manoeuvring the ball into the opposing goal, and the object of the game is to score more goals that the opposing team. Only the goalkeepers may use their hands or arms to touch or handle the ball in general play; the remaining players primarily propel and control the ball using their feet, although use of the head, torso and legs to intercept or redirect the ball is integral to a player's general skills. 81.96.161.52 21:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Position?
I am trying to improve upon the Shaolin Soccer article. I ran across one character in the movie that is described as being the "FF" of the opposing team. What does that mean? Does it mean "Front Forward"? Is that even a real position? I would like to elaborate on it since other readers may come across it and be puzzled themselves. (Ghostexorcist 00:07, 26 May 2007 (UTC))


 * Full-forward this could be what you're looking for. - The Daddy 20:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Agony of Doha
I'm asking if someone of the administrators could do something with this page. There has been a continuous moving of this page, so maybe you guys will be more capable of doing something with this issue. Xbox6 18:13, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not an admin, but I've moved the page back and warned the user, so if he continues he can be sanctioned, and requested that the article be move-protected.  Eliminator JR Talk  20:43, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Pitch?
I was reading this article and saw that the field is referred to as a pitch in this article. I was wondering if it was called that everywhere else or is the term field used only in the United States? Showers 02:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

According to our pitch article, pitch is used in both UK and Australian English. Don't know about elsewhere --iamajpeg 19:13, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Certainly in British English the term used is football pitch. ♦Tangerines BFC ♦ · Talk 19:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Although "football field" is also occasionally used. David Mestel(Talk) 18:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * In the UK it's nearly always a football pitch. Altenative terms such as park and field are considered informal (and are mainly used by those involved in the game as a sort of slang). 81.96.161.52 21:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Park is possibly used more in Scotland than pitch. - Dudesleeper · Talk 22:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Football Wallpapers
The football wallpapers link added to the "external links" section looks like spam. Does anyone else agree? --D 13:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It is spam, so I removed it. Miles Blues 18:49, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

the picture about the popularity??
it makes no sense and is not understandable —Preceding unsigned comment added by Undress 006 (talk • contribs) 23:55, August 29, 2007 (UTC)


 * If you mean the football world popularity image above, try clicking on it and then viewing it in full where I can assure you it makes perfect sense and is perfectly understandable. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 00:10, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

In that image, Ireland shows up as red, implying that football is not the most popular sport. As a resident, I can tell you that it is effortlessly the most popular sport. Our native gaelic games, as well as rugby and golf, are popular - but there is not even a remote competitor for football ( soccer ) as the most popular.89.100.7.28 22:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The image is based on data from the National Geographic that based their survey on several aspects, economy, popularity, attendance figures, and so on. And based on what I've heard and read, Gaelic football and hurling are a lot more popular than football on Ireland. For example, the highest attendance in the Eircom Premier League in 2006 was 6,800, while the average was around 1,500, compared to the Gaelic football and hurling championship finals that draws crowds of over 80,000, and many regular matches with attendances of over 10,000. Of course I don't live on Ireland, but I can only find sources that support that football is less popular than Gaelic football. – Elisson • T • C • 14:58, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * How can you figure that attendances of the Eircom League prove how popular football is in Ireland? Thousands of Irish people cross the Irish Sea, to watch Celtic, Man United and Liverpool in particular, each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if there were 10,000 people from Ireland in Old Trafford alone for normal league games. Of course, they all stay in Ireland to watch Gaelic football and hurling because they're not popular in other countries. Finding out the number of people that actually play the sport, both competitively and for fun, would be a much better indicator. Marky-Son 12:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * FAI.ie claims that over 180,000 people play football in clubs and schools, while goireland.com claims that 306,000 people play hurling and/or Gaelic football. – Elisson • T • C • 15:20, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

That map is reallty nonse ! So, in Greenland football is mor popular than Brazil or Argentina??? Pleaaaaaaaaaaaase. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.255.182.65 (talk) 05:02, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You didn't read the key did you? Then do so. There are more football players per 1,000 inhabitants on Greenland than in Brazil. That's what the colour means. – Elisson • T • C • 10:32, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Scottish Cup
It might be a good idea to mention that the scottish cup is the oldest trophy currently being competed for.--Sandbagger 17:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The trophy awarded to the winners is the oldest, but the competition itself is not - that is the FA Cup (the FA Cup trophy has been replaced three times). Oldelpaso 18:11, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

you're right,but surely it's a fact that's worth mentioning in the article?--86.138.136.74 18:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Most prestigious competition?
From the article:

"The most prestigious competition until 2005 was the Intercontinental Cup which was contested by the winner club of the European Champions League cup and the winner of the Copa Libertadores."

Well... technically I suppose it would be, in a purely hierarchical sense. But I don't know of anyone who ever thought of it that way. It's more of an exhibition match; sure, you'd like to win, the more silverware the better, but to call it more prestigious than the European Cup itself? It was really a bonus round, not the main prize.

(Of course I might be biased; the South Americans always win the thing.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.17.108 (talk) 21:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it is misleading. The European teams don't seem to think it's all that important. Maybe the South American teams think it's more prestigious than the Copa Libertadores, but the European teams shore don't think it's more important than the Champion's League. The match doesn't get a lot of media attention or TV-coverage in Europe, and frankly I think that from a European point of view the Intercontinental Cup is seen more like an exibition game with the intention of raising the profile of the participating European club, and the entire sport itself, in a potentially strong economic market such as Japan and the South East Asia. Sebisthlm 15:46, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Removed an unsourced paragraph
I've commented out the following paragraph as I can't find any references to confirm it: ''Whilst football has continued to be played in various forms throughout the United Kingdom, the English public schools (fee-paying schools) are widely credited with certain key achievements in the creation of modern football (association football and the rugby football games&mdash;rugby league and rugby union football). During the sixteenth century English public schools generally, and headmaster Richard Mulcaster in particular, were instrumental in taking football away from its violent "mob" form and turning it into an organised team sport that was beneficial to schoolboys. Thereafter, the game became institutionalised, regulated, and part of a larger, more central tradition. Many early descriptions of football and references to it (e.g., in poetry) were recorded by people who had studied at these schools, showing they were familiar with the game. Finally, in the 19th century, teachers and former students were the first to write down formal rules of early modern football to enable matches to be played between schools'' It is also pretty vague, resulting in verbosity. There's a couple of books I'd like to consult before binning it completely though. Oldelpaso 17:38, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've also removed The first ever set of football rules were written at Eton College in 1815. While this is mentioned in a few places online, I can't find any which would count as a reliable source. Its not mentioned in David Winner's history of English football Those Feet, which devotes several pages to the games played at Eton. Oldelpaso 10:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.0.215.88 (talk) 00:49, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Sending-offs
I think it should be made clear that players who have been sent off can't be substituted, giving an advantage to the other team. 79.0.198.185 12:22, 3 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.0.198.185 (talk) 12:18, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).   Woodym555 14:42, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

IT'S CALLED SOCCER
I don't know why foriengers alway call it football. Can someone please explain why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.94.199.9 (talk) 15:45, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Foreigners? You don't even bother to explain what country you are in. There is no need to explain as it is called football in most countries, and only called soccer in a minority of countries. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 16:14, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

WHAT country are YOU from, Tangerines? This article should be renamed soccer, and all refrences to "football" should be removed. Football is a game that is a game that is loosly based on rugby, but is way better. Soccer is a sport where a bunch of guys kick a ball arount a field. Football is way more popular than soccer (worldwide). The only reason the want to call football soccer is so the can make this borning sport more popular. --64.94.199.9 20:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It makes no difference what country I am from, it was you who said "foreigners" call it football without explaining which country you live in. Apart from which I don't hide as my profile shows which country I live in. You are as has been stated clearly a wind up merchant. However, simply because countries like the United States, Canada and a few other countries call the sport soccer, does not detract from the fact that the sport is known as football. The funniest thing I have read for a long time on here though is trying to make out that what is presumably American football / gridiron is more way more popular than football worldwide. Good attempt at a wind up though so well done. There is already a compromise in the title using both football and soccer. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 02:18, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Football is the more common international name for this sport. This article only has "(soccer)" as an afterthought to disambiguate it from other, less popular sports which share the name. EuroSong talk 23:28, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't it just be better to delete comments made by wind-up merchants clearly fishing for bait, rather than responding to them? Marky-Son 00:04, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably. But the point is Association Football is more commonly known as soccer in most English-speaking countries, although I will freely admit that those who actually care about the game are more likely to call it football. The current title of the article is a good compromise for the english-language Wikipedia. --Michael Johnson 01:13, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Football covers both rugby and soccer - properly called "association" football, the "soc" syllable giving rise to soc-cer. So there is also football - rugby.  This is in addition to rugby basterdardized in the form or gridiron when they added the forward pass. Radio Guy (talk)i  —Preceding comment was added at 05:18, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I would say the more common name is football, it is just a few places that call it "soccer". But that is just my impression. What do the regulatory bodies of the leagues call it? 1 != 2  01:23, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Of English-speaking countries only in the United Kingdom and Ireland is Football the most common term. In Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada, and South Africa the most common term is Soccer. In Australia the national body recently changed their name to the Football Federation of Australia, but still call the national team the Socceroos. --Michael Johnson 01:33, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * To answer the question about what the regulatory bodies (governing bodies) use - the worldwide governing body is FIFA - Fédération Internationale de Football Association (International Federation of Association Football), and each regional body such as in Europe - UEFA (Union Européenne de Football Association or Union of European Football Associations ) and perhaps more relevant to this discussion - the regional governing body that covers North America uses the word football not soccer - CONCACAF (Confederation of North, Central American and Caribbean Association Football). Soccer is a word used in some countries where they have their own version of football. USA and Canada - American football = football. Australia - I think it is Aussie Rules which is called football? ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 02:29, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Correct, except that in a large part of New South Wales and Queensland someone referring to football will most likely be referring to Rugby League. In New Zealand, they most likely would be referring to Rugby Union. So for most English-speakers referring to football would be referring to a code other than Association Football. --Michael Johnson 02:50, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've always thought Association Football would be the better title for the article, as this is official name given to the sport by the game's governing bodies. Although soccer is used as the name of the sport in some countries, it is more of a nickname rather than an official name for the game. American Football and Rugby Football have their full names in the article title, rather than Football (American) (or Football (Gridiron)) and Football (Rugby). Dave101  →talk  10:05, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Holy crap! Look at how much text was created just by my stupid comments. "Wind up merchants", is that what they call it now? Even if I get blocked for this, it was still entertaining and worthwhile. It is sad that this has to be an issue. I can see where you "Foreigners" are coming from. In most English speaking countries it is called Football, I get that, it's just disconcerting as an American to have all this confusion. (not that it should be changed)--64.94.199.9 13:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * In Europe, Afrika and other parts of the world, it's know as Football or Fotball. The EnglishWikipedia isn't just used by English speaking countries, it's also used by most other non-English speakers becouse of the better and longer articles. Just becouse Americans suck at all international sports, like the worlds most popular sport Football, doesent mean that you have to go and agress yourself all over this article. It's becouse of you we have closed for edeting... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.231.129 (talk) 15:02, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe we should title the article association football. I don't see other Wikipedia articles with this strange compromise like color (colour), eggplant (aubergine), wrench (spanner), etc.. That seems like the best title. Reginmund 01:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I've been saying that for ages. Jooler 01:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Apparently consensus can change. Is it possible to get enough consensus to move this page from this pseudo-encyclopaedic title? It is really an unusual and unorthodox compromise now. Reginmund 01:42, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, let's move it to soccer, since that's what most native English speakers call the game and it is therefore the common name....oops, sorry that isn't what you were suggesting, is it? ;-) In that case I think it should stay here. 10:01, 5 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grant65 (talk • contribs)


 * Dear unsigned user,

Please read this stream of text in this article: Including all countries which have English speaking populations, football is the most commonly used term for the sport.


 * In that case, I think it should be moved to association football. Reginmund 15:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I think soccer definitely should be removed from the title, i don't really like "association football" because its never used, I'll always want this article to be at "Football" but i could go as long as "Football (sport)" or "association football" (though is it association Football, Association football, association football or Association Football?) Chandler talk 15:26, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * We all know that in the USA, and some other countries, the sport is called soccer. However, that does not detract from the fact that the sports full official name is Association football and that the word soccer is not, and never has been, the name of the sport. The Spanish word futbol comes from the English word football and not from the word soccer. The word soccer is quite simply a slang name for the sport, and nothing more than that. There has been this compromoise though to accomodate those who call the sport soccer for some time now with the title as it is. Yet still some insist on calling for the title to be changed to soccer, and insisting that the sport is called soccer. I doubt very much that fans of American football would be too happy if the word Gridiron (which is presumably a slang word for the sport) were to be in the title of that sports article. I would prefer the title to be Association football if anything, with soccer as a redirect while still retaining the content and still using soccer within the article. However, I also accept that some know the sport as soccer and realise that it probably will never happen. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 20:47, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It is a possibility to move this page. A lot of people call maize corn (which is colloquial). We have the page at its proper name, though. Reginmund 15:35, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Is this a joke argument? Of course the sport is called football, there is absolutly no reason to rename the article just because Americans invented their own sport and called it "football". Bogdan що?  02:29, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is. I was being sarcastic. Reginmund 19:10, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I sure hope it is a joke, or else it might just be typical American ethnocentrism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.131.114.90 (talk) 04:21, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
While viewing the article while logged out, it appears to be vandalism, reading "Ben Daley, stop looking at this. Just do your work and get back to business.  Jezz Ben.  Always trying to find an ewasy way out." but it is viewed normally while logged in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.248.174.37 (talk) 15:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That was a previous version of the page. If you are using firefox, click "ctrl,shift,R" at the same time to purge your cache. Try refreshing your page. Does do that do it? Woodym555 16:02, 2 November 2007 (UTC)