Talk:August 2023 mid-south U.S. floods

Requested move 22 August 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved, to August 2023 mid-south U.S. floods. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 11:30, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

August 2023 Mid-South U.S. floods → August 2023 Southeastern United States floods – Mid-South isn’t a very helpful geographic term, also Missouri could arguably be considered the Southeast. 97.125.147.175 (talk) 22:56, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose: Missouri, Tennesee and Kentucky seem neither south nor eastern – especially since we're talking about the western part of Kentucky and the western part of Tennessee. Upland South, Central or mid-south seems like the best way to describe them. Note that the article about the Southeastern United States indicates that it is not clear whether they should be included there. But why is "South" capitalized here? Isn't that contrary to MOS:HYPHENCAPS? Move to, August 2023 Upland South United States floods or . —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 02:16, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Note that Missouri is not in the Southern United States and is not in the Eastern United States, so it should basically not be considered to be in the Southeastern United States. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 02:26, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Or August 2023 Upland South floods, since Wikipedia considers "Upland South" unambiguous. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 02:31, 23 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose per BarrelProof's reasoning, and August 2023 Mid-south United States floods would be best. Tails   Wx  (they/them) ⚧ 02:23, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No it wouldn’t, because absolutely no one is going to be able to find the title of with that weird keyword. Support August 2023 Upland South floods.173.23.45.183 (talk) 13:54, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * See BarrelProof's reasoning above. Tails   Wx  (they/them) ⚧ 14:00, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Mid-South is a real place, but it includes Mississippi and not Alabama, and Upland South includes Alabama, hence Upland South is a better term. 63.76.154.130 (talk) 15:33, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Article link: Mid-South (region). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * However, then we leave this article title intact and don’t move it at all.--63.76.154.130 (talk) 22:36, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No. "South" is capitalised, and as stated above, is contrary to MOS:HYPHENCAPS. Tails   Wx  (they/them) ⚧ 02:02, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I started an RM for that article, but they have to be consistent with each other. 4.4.139.206 (talk) 10:36, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I also notice . That is formatted as a proper name (note the capital letter in "Derecho"), but I suspect it should not be. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:02, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose per BarrelProof and WP:CONCISE. Support August 2023 mid-south U.S. floods - no need to cap mid-south at all (it is descriptive), and certainly not south per MOS:HYPHENCAPS and MOS:COMPASS. Cinderella157 (talk) 12:28, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Cosensus at the other article Barrel linked above is to keep south capaitalized. And these two must remain consistent. 199.76.113.24 (talk) 16:21, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Please be more specific as to where this consensus is. Cinderella157 (talk) 22:22, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 16 September 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Edward-Woodrow  •  talk  14:14, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

August 2023 mid-south U.S. floods → August 2023 Mid-South U.S. floods – As noted on the recent failed move request of Mid-South (region), it is a proper noun (and is consistently capitalized as with that title) and this article should be capitalized consistent with that proper noun. The previous move was based on incorrect reasoning and failure to understand that it is not a mere description. oknazevad (talk) 00:49, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Unsure. MOS:HYPHENCAPS seems to argue against the capitalization of "south" here. "South" by itself is not a proper noun here; it just part of a hyphenated modifier of "U.S." The noun is "U.S.", not "south". This is different from the arguable use of "South" as a geographic proper noun in "Mid-South (region)", since that title does not include "U.S." —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:14, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
 * No, "Mid-South United States" is a total noun phrase, just like Northeast United States or Midwest United States, both of which are capitalized as proper nouns even mid-sentence, even when short forms are used. The names of regions of the United States are proper nouns, not merely adjectives, even if they aren't particularly creative names, and should be capitalized. oknazevad (talk) 22:37, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
 * But look at book stats. Lowercase it's common enough to appear, but uppercase it's not.  So yes, a "total noun phrase", but not a proper name. Dicklyon (talk) 00:20, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * My remark is not about the whole phrase; it is focused on the letter that follows the hyphen, based on MOS:HYPHENCAPS. Northeast United States and Midwest United States do not contain hyphens. And in the article title about the region, there is no "U.S." —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:04, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose and nom's premise that "it is a proper noun (and is consistently capitalized as with that title)" is false. It may be more commonly capped, but certainly not consistently, and there's no evidence of it being a proper name of anything, in spite of that thinly-attended failed RM. Dicklyon (talk) 20:22, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The Mid-South region is well attested as a proper name. That's why the RM went nowhere, because the evidence was overwhelming and complete. Just because you don't like that real world English usage doesn't always follow consistent rules spent mean you can ignore reality. oknazevad (talk) 22:32, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not even clear what you're saying is well attested, or where we'd find support for that notion. A region is not a name. Dicklyon (talk) 00:22, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The use of "mid-south United States" is also well attested. See these books for example:, , , .  Writing as "mid South" and "Mid-south" are also not uncommon. Dicklyon (talk) 00:25, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose has identified (perhaps inadvertently) that the key phrase to consider is mid-south United States and not just mid-south, since the title uses the former, albeit abbreviating United States. An ngram search (per ) does not support the proposal. Noting that the ngram corpus is a subset of Google books, a search here and the examples provided by DL show inconsistent capitalisation not sufficient to support the proposed capitalisation with reference to WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS. Furthermore, MOS:HYPHENCAPS tells us not to cap after a hyphen - another reason to reject the proposal. While it may or may not be appropriate to capitalise Mid-South as a stand-alone term, it does not follow that mid-south should be capitalized when it acts as a modifier of United States. The nom's argument fails in this respect. It fails in respect to the evidence presented and the criteria set by WP:P&G. This discussion does, however, suggest that it might be more appropriate to title the article Mid-South (region) as Mid-south United States. Cinderella157 (talk) 11:56, 18 September 2023 (UTC)