Talk:Ayrton Senna

Senna was not Catholic
Ayrton Senna was a devout bible believing Christian, not Catholic as stated here. There is a profound difference. Faith in God was more important than anything to him and he was very vocal about it. Please correct this asap.Thank you. Truthinlove80 (talk) 15:28, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You will need to provide a reliable source that says he was a different Christian denomination and unless you're blocked from editing this page you should just make the change yourself WP:DOIT

Discussion on the "widely regarded as the greatest/one of the greatest" sentence in the article.
I have noticed that there seems to be disagreements on whether this sentence should read as "one of the greatest" or "the greatest." I will not get into a discussion on how good Senna was, because this is not the place to do that. I am not sure if any of you have noticed, but if you look at Wikipedia articles of every other successful Formula One driver in history, you would have noticed that these "widely regarded as the greatest/one of the greatest" sentences have been removed from all of those articles, because it is regarded as puffery, not factual, and more of an opinion which not every individual agrees with. If you read this page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lewis_Hamilton), you will find that we came to an agreement that this opinionated statement should be removed from the Hamilton/Schumacher/Vettel/Alonso articles and articles of other successful drivers, because Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia. Articles should be as neutral as possible, and not biased/opinionated. Let me know your thoughts on this situation, but I believe that these "widely regarded as one of the greatest/greatest" statements should be removed to maintain a sense of neutrality, and not allowing biases to get in the way of an encyclopaedia. McLarenMercedes22 (talk) 18:32, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this doesn't belong in the lead. His achievements can speak for themselves in the lead. Subjective assessments by commentators can go in appropriate locations throughout the body of the text. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 19:19, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree that commentators' opinions should not be in the lead and that it should be as neutral as possible. Carfan568 (talk) 19:44, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * If the the "widely regarded as the greatest/one of the greatest" sentences have been removed from the Wikipedia articles of every other successful Formula One driver in history, then, for the sake of consistency, it should be removed from Senna's too Koppite1 (talk) 13:54, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Drivers vote Senna the greatest ever
In December 2009, Ayrton Senna was named the best driver of all time in the selection of his fellow drivers conducted by the British magazine Autosport. 217 current and former F1 pilots took part in the selection, collecting a total of 9,194 Formula 1 appearances and a total of 270 victories. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/80517/drivers-vote-senna-the-greatest-ever Ayrton Senna, also had the nickname 'Rain Man' for a great ride in rainy conditions, and there is no such thing. There is also no to this day he holds the record on the most demanding track Monaco Grand Prix, which he won 6 times, more than other drivers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monaco_Grand_Prix

Can anyone put this in an article, I can't because it's semi-protected. Thank you78.1.162.104 (talk) 11:44, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Here are some more quotes from Ayrton Senna

Ayrton Senna, among the many records he left behind, remained in the history of Formula 1 as one of the best drivers in qualifying of all time thanks to 65 first starting positions in 161 races (on average he started every third race first). The record was unbroken twelve years after his death until Michael Schumacher broke that record in the 2006 San Marino race, in his 236th career race. In addition to great success in qualifying, Senna is often referred to as the Lord of Monaco.

He once described a strange feeling that overwhelmed him occasionally during qualifying. His view of that feeling was like driving in a tunnel in a state of sleep, and he said this after qualifying for the 1988 Monaco Grand Prix: Wikiquote “... the last qualifying round. I already had secured first place at the start in half a second, and then a full second. I suddenly became two seconds faster than anyone, including my colleague from the same team with the same car. And then I realized I wasn’t driving consciously. I drove the car by some instinct, only I was in another dimension. It was like a tunnel. Not just like that tunnel next to the hotel but like the whole race is a tunnel. I just went and went, more and more and more and more. I was far above the limit, but I always found ways to go even higher. Then something just knocked me out. Somehow I woke up and realized I was in a different atmosphere than usual. My reaction was to brake urgently and slow down the car. I drove slowly to the pits and didn’t go out that day anymore. It scared me because I was far beyond conscious. It rarely happens, but I keep those memories deep inside because it's an important part of my memories. ”

The 2004 San Marino Grand Prix marked the tenth anniversary of Senna's death. At the time, Gerhard Berger, Senna's colleague at McLaren between 1990 and 1992, said what it was like to drive qualifying with Senna: Wikiquote “I remember one weekend in Imola when I went out and set up the first time. Then he came out, he was a little faster. I came out, I was faster than him. He came out, he was faster than me, and so back and forth, ping-pong, all the way to the end of qualifying and the last set of tires, when he was sitting in his car and I in mine, when he came out, he came to me and said: Listen, this is going to get dangerous now !, and I replied: Yes, and? Go!"

This rivalry can perhaps be attributed not only to Ayrton’s determination and desire to win even in qualifying, but also to Berger and Senna’s friendship. Berger is also remembered for his famous statement: He taught me a lot about this sport; I taught him to laugh.

It is a translation from the Croatian Wikipedia about Ayrton Senna (In English) ,you can also put it,Bye 78.1.162.104 (talk) 11:33, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * You should probably find a blog for this material. Wikipedia is not a repository of anything anyone has ever said about a notable person. Please read previous discussions about describing anyone as "the greatest" at anything. Britmax (talk) 12:49, 31 January 2021 (UTC)


 * It says so here i found source https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport/formula-one/f1-mythbusting-ayrton-sennas-epic-1988-monaco-gp-pole-position-lap/news-story/4d6a7c605350e1f016018a6c5f185379 as the source says it's an audio recording and it's just a fraction of the audio recording in the source, and here's a little bit more written what he said, I didn't say that he is the best driver of all time, but drivers who drive f1, and above is the source where it says78.1.162.104 (talk) 15:48, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Autocorse Driver of the Year
"a uniquely flawed genius and an intense egocentric, absolutely matchless when it comes to wet weather genius and yet sometimes afflicted by an unsettled mood". Where does this quote come from? I can't find this quote outside Wikipedia (but I reckon someone here could). A lot of websites just copy off of Wikipedia so obviously we can't cite many of those websites. At the moment I will put a. Klrfl  Talk!  00:43, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It is likely in the 1993 edition of Autocourse. I don't have that annual and the online archive tops out at 1984 currently. but someone else might. FozzieHey (talk) 10:11, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The editor's description of Senna in the "Top Ten Drivers" section of Autocourse 1993-94 contains many of the same words, although not in exactly the order specified above. He writes: "... His wins at Interlagos, Donington Park and Suzuka served to confirm his matchless genius in the wet ... His straightforward errors at Hockenheim ... and Monza ... seemed symptomatic of his unsettled mood ... the controversial manner in which he struck Eddie Irvine ... provided yet another disturbing insight into Senna's extraordinarily intense egocentricity and uniquely flawed genius." DH85868993 (talk) 09:36, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Could you amend the current quote in the article to match this with a citation? Thanks for looking into it! FozzieHey (talk) 10:00, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Done. I left out the "unsettled mood" bit because I didn't think it was particularly important. DH85868993 (talk) 10:46, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Unreferenced paragraphs
Hello, I saw that you removed the citation needed tags recently added to unreferenced paragraphs. Thanks for your explanation that the information in these paragraphs "is a matter of record and has been for YEARS". However, I don't think that this is sufficient. According to the policy WP:V, all material challenged or likely to be challenged needs inline citations. It also suggests that "citation needed" tags are added to highlight the problem (see WP:FAIL). Certain information is excluded from this requirement, as stated in the policy No_original_research. But these exclusions do not seem to apply here. For example, they do not cover claims like However, the biggest incident of the year happened at the Italian Grand Prix at Monza, His 13 pole positions also beat the record of nine held by Nelson Piquet (1984), At this point, Senna had already lost around 4.5 litres of blood, constituting 90% of his blood volume, and This event is notable for being the stage for the last on-track duel between Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna.. Since this article is a good article nominee, it is likely that this will also be pointed out during the review. Please let me know if you think that there is a misunderstanding of the relevant policies on my part. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:26, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Looked to me like you just picked a random article and added 'citation needed' tags to it; I'll admit that I didn't see the ones further down the page, but as far as I can tell, none of the stuff you called out as needing citation needs to be cited; all are matters of record, especially the parts about the 1988 Italian Grand Prix and Senna's blood loss after the crash at Tamburello. Carguy1701 (talk) 14:26, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your response. I've asked for advice at No_original_research/Noticeboard. Phlsph7 (talk) 21:07, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It seems they are in need of citations since their verifiability has been challenged. See also WP:BURDEN. I also made a short search about the claim concerning the 90% blood loss and I couldn't verify it. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:45, 18 March 2023 (UTC)