Talk:Bad Wolf

"Bad wolf" in Rose
It wasn't. Honestly, it wasn't. I've watched that scene over and over again. Ran it several times to check it out. I can see where the grunting sounds of the Nestene Consciousness could be interpreted as the phrase "Bad Wolf" if you do the aural equivalent of squinting, but it's not. The clearest reason why not is because when the Nestene Consciousness does say an audible phrase, "Time Lord," that's clear as anything. Why would that phrase be so clear and yet "Bad Wolf" be muffled and nearly unintelligible - particularly since RTD has been sledgehammering us over the head with the Bad Wolf references? It doesn't make sense. --khaosworks 07:03, May 12, 2005 (UTC)


 * Sure it does. The references started off almost invisible, then (at least for a while) got more and more overt. Note that this is the only time you actually see the Consciousness mouth words. And it's forming very specific shapes with its lips. If you study especially the sides of the mouth -- the "jaw" portion, if you will -- it's clear how much work went into getting this animation precisely right. It's not just arbitrary. It's been futzed with endlessly. And the words it shapes, visually, are "[something with a soft consonnant, followed by "aaa", then a hard stop] wolf". The "wolf" in particular is very clear. You've even got the labial fricative on the "f".


 * Combine that with a distorted vocal performance which, at the least, amounts to "AAA, OOOF!" (matching the mouth animations), and. Well. If he's not saying "Bad Wolf", then someone went to a lot of trouble animating something that looks and sounds very close to it.


 * If you're going to play the "why" game, it's easy enough to turn it around and ask why Davies put the reference into every episode except for this one, yet there's an expensive and deliberate digital animation that can be so easily interpreted as a reference.


 * But then you got to ask yourself why "Time Lord" is so clearly voiced and yet "Bad Wolf" is not. I think it's just people seeing what they want to see. The animation may suggest it, but Nicholas Briggs's voice does not. --khaosworks 22:11, May 15, 2005 (UTC)


 * You know, I've never heard it say "Time Lord". Not once. I frankly don't even know what you're talking about. Yet I hear "Bad Wolf". Seems there's a difference in ears here. And again, just look at the animation. My memory was vaguer than the actual case. You actually see the pucker for the "W" in wolf. If deliberate facial animation doesn't count as a reference, then there are some bizarre problems around here.


 * It's not at the same point - a little later. Immediately after Jackie screams when facing the Auton brides, it cuts back to the Doctor struggling, then cuts to Rose and Mickey - and at that point you hear a hoarse but very audible "Time Lord". No need for lip reading at all there. --khaosworks 00:20, May 16, 2005 (UTC)


 * Also, we don't know if the payoff will explain why he didn't put it in Rose. I didn't put my own theory in because it's speculation and thus not encyclopedic, but the question is why there are Bad Wolf references and why they are where they are. Something is scattering clues through history, like little ripple effects in a pond when a stone is tossed in reaching forward and back. Could it be that this only began when Rose started travelling with the Doctor and not before? Could it be that Little Red Riding Hood is also the Big Bad Wolf?


 * Again, this is mere speculation, but it does provide a possible explanation as to why Bad Wolf is not in the first episode, as Rose has not travelled in time yet. I don't propose to debate the merits of this theory, just to offer it as a reason as to why we assume that Bad Wolf was mentioned in the first episode (or, granted, conversely, that it wasn't). I'd provided a compromise wording to the note and hopefully that's acceptable. --khaosworks 22:21, May 15, 2005 (UTC)


 * I thought the commonly cited "Bad Wolf" reference in Rose was a line (from either Rose herself or Clive) about the Doctor being a "wolf in sheep's clothing"... Or is that not there either? -- Guybrush 07:18, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't remember that at all. Rose does say she thinks the Doctor is dangerous, and Clive notes that if the Doctor is making "house calls" then all of them are in danger, but I don't recall any wolf references in any of those conversations. --khaosworks 07:36, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

Not to insert a huge spoiler or anything, but in episode 3 a boy spray paints "bad wolf" onto the tardis; the moment it is alleged that the nestene says bad wolf is also the moment that it sees the tardis and goes psycho.


 * Yes, there are clear Bad Wolf references in every episode aside from Rose which is what the above discussion was about. Read the notes for each episode article for the explicit ones. (we mostly left out the more subtle, implied ones) --khaosworks 01:29, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

Well, I think this is pretty definitive. The BBC site www.badwolf.org.uk/clues.html shows "Bad Wolf" references for every story except "Rose". --DudeGalea 12:12, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * "I love humans. They're always seeing patterns in things that aren't there." - The Eighth Doctor. --khaosworks 13:01, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

"Bad Wolf" in Father's Day
Was there a reference? I didn't catch one. --DudeGalea 20:18, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Ah, I notice khaosworks has updated the Bad Wolf article to point out that it was used on a poster. Well spotted; I didn't catch that one. DudeGalea 22:22, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

What/Who is 'Bad Wolf?'
If I was taking a guess, I would say it would refer to the Doctor, based on his comments on the extinction of the rest of his race (just a guess, and I'm most likely wrong)

Suspects for the Bad Wolf - If the 'Bad Wolf' is a person, who?

The Doctor: Has been accused of spreading 'death' everywhere he goes. The clues seem to lean far more for Rose than him. Was surprised in 'Boom Town' to see the latest reference yet suddenly shugged it off. Is the Doctor even who he claims to be?

Rose: The Doctor seems very certain on traveling with her. The clues only started to appear following her entry into the TARDIS, the first time in a long while that the 'Doctor' has had a companion. Rose has certainly lost much of her navity since her first appearance.

Mickey: Disgrunted with Rose in Boom Town, and reappears in Bad Wolf. His website is very researched and he hasn't gone to any lengths to tell Rose about it.
 * Unlikely to be the real Mickey in Bad Wolf though, seeing as it's set around the year 200,100. Unless the Daleks use their time travel technology (which they undoubtedly still have, having been participants in the Time War). Same goes for Jackie too. As for Mickey's web site, he tried to tell Rose about it in Aliens of London, but by the end of World War Three seemed to trust the Doctor (another case for the BBC's site seeming non-canon, though bitterness at Rose's second disappearance may well still bias Mickey against the Doctor). He doesn't seem to have picked up on the "Bad Wolf" references. -- Guybrush 03:36, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Jackie: Might be hiding something from Rose and the Doctor. If so, what? Also appears in Bad Wolf.

Jack Harkness: What happened in those missing two years of his life? Has he perhaps met the 'Doctor' before?

Adam: Knows the forthcoming history of the next 200,000 years at the end of The Long Game. Knew the Doctor via Mickey's website yet seemed unaware a mere six years later in Dalek. Did Adam use his knowledge to change history in order to keep himself alive, and bring the Daleks back to life? Is he the mysterious white figure seen in the Bad Wolf Teaser? Rumour even has it that Adam is strangely begining to seem like someone the Doctor knows very well... A figure who has a cybernetic implant turned into a third eye...
 * No evidence that he remembers any of the data about the next 200,000 years, in fact the evidence points to quite the opposite: when viewing the news broadcast, the Doctor says Cathica is only a conduit for the information and cannot remember any of it after transmission. Adam transmits it back to his home telephone so that he can access it later, which he would only need to do if the Doctor was right. The Doctor destroys that data, so Adam has no remaining future knowledge beyond what he's seen during The Long Game. And as for him turning up on Satellite 5 in 200,100, that's as likely as Mickey or Jackie - and given they're in the cast list and he isn't, I'd say much less likely. -- Guybrush 03:36, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Van Statten: Like Mickey and Adam he should be even more aware of the Doctor - he owns the internet! Was erasing his memory a good idea - he might have known something important...

Clive: Oh yes. He might be dead, but he's not ruled out. The clues only started following his death. Original owner of the Who is Doctor Who website. Warned Rose about the Doctor. Despite his website he seems unaware of the other 'Doctors' lurking about in Earth's history.

The Editor: Since the forthcoming episode is set on Satellite 5, is the Editor still alive? Could he be perhaps both the 'Bad Wolf' and the strange white figure?

The Daleks: Could it be as simple as the Doctor's oldest enemy? They certainly fit the 'Wolf' catagory.
 * "Bad Wolf" is singular, though, and there are millions of Daleks in the episode. -- Guybrush 03:36, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What about the Master? He might stil be alive in the TARDIS. Revenant Lord


 * The production team have categorically stated that the Master does not appear in the series. At this point, Davies has no interest in bringing him back, even. --khaosworks 12:07, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * Damn, that would have been my theory. Do Daleks even care what a Wolf is? And wasn't Davros hurled into a supernova? -- hash 20:17, 12 Apr 2006 (GMT)


 * No, Skaro was blown up (allegedly) in Remembrance of the Daleks, but Davros wasn't around Skaro at the time and escaped his ship in an escape pod. As for the rest, you'll just have to watch The Parting of the Ways... but seriously, perhaps it wasn't the Daleks that named the corporation but they just bought it over. But I'm just speculating. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 23:19, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Admittedly unlikely speculations:

K-9: Well, he is at least sort-of a dog, which is sort-of a wolf...

Norman Lovett: Getting his own back because of the Davros rumour.

Credible:

Bad Wolf TV: I think this is probably the most likely, seeing as one of Satellite 5's TV stations is called Bad Wolf TV, and we already know that the Bad Wolf episode will involve a TV station on Sat 5. --DudeGalea 12:51, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, now we know! --DudeGalea 18:59, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * But do we? In the teaser for the next episode, the Doctor asks how the Daleks survived the Time War and is answered "Because of me" by an off-screen voice. Davros, perhaps? --Revenant Lord


 * It sounded more like the Emperor Dalek to me


 * I qualify my (flippant) remark; we know that Bad Wolf is, at least superficially, the name of the corporation. And we know that the Daleks are behind that. What's behind the Daleks is, of course, a matter of speculation. --DudeGalea 20:43, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Whilst agreeing with anon poster, I hate to be a killjoy but this a page for discussing the Bad Wolf article Tim! (talk) 09:20, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What I'm curious about is why "Bad Wolf"? What's the esoteric reference? if you will. Why "Bad Wolf" and not, say, "Happy Cow" (that's for you Californians) or "Ill-mannered Marmot"? I understand the function of the phrase within the context of the story (I don't think it references any character specifically, just MHO), what I want to understand is the motivation of the creative choice.76.204.192.138 (talk) 05:22, 11 November 2010 (UTC)


 * See Big Bad Wolf. DonQuixote (talk) 11:47, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Bad Wolf cast
I don't recall any of Rose's family or Mickey. I've restrained from editing the main article in case I'm mistaken. (I also suspect someone will do a big re-write any time now.) --Billpg 19:55, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * No, they weren't in there. I reckon the BBC was trying to put us off the scent by saying they were in the eps.

Other mysteries
Now after all the argument about Bad Wolf, who knows why the numbers 23, 6 and 801 keep appearing throughout the series?

e.g. Psalms for church service in Father's Day, bus numbers on bus stop, date in Dr Constantine's diary, Geocomtex phone number, and an entry in the 'whoisdoctorwho' website.

Hat tip to http://www.relativedimensions.co.uk/badwolf.html. (And there are a few other interesting tidbits on that page.)

--DudeGalea 20:49, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What happened to the people?
Here's a bit of speculation.

The people have been transmatted to the ships for years and years and years -- what happened to them? Secondly, where did all the Daleks come from? Speculation. . . cf. Revelation of the Daleks. DonQuixote 00:45, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Or: the communications satellite and the Doctor have created an alternative reality, and the Daleks can exist in that AR.

The simplest answer is often the best. Cf. The Parting of the Ways. DonQuixote 04:31, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Running plto theme
The running theme (as distinct from a running gag) is an interesting idea - even if the characters will not be aware of all the references.

Torchwood
speculation or based on something concrete? Tim! (talk) 09:10, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * No speculation. Just pointing out two discrete facts. One, Davies did say in DWM that the word had already been said, and it was an anagram. Two, Torchwood was an answer, and it is an anagram of "doctor who". I leave it to people to draw their own conclusions. :) --khaosworks 09:23, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

Spelling of "fetal"/"foetal"/"fœtal"
It's hugely insignificant, but if the spelling isn't in the Compact OED should we really be using it? The AskOxford site does have "foetus" as an alternative ("Brit. (non-technical use)) spelling of "fetus" (the primary entry, even in the UK edition of the site), but it doesn't have the adjectival form "foetal" (with or without the ligature). It might be one of those adjectival oddities like "humorous". —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 02:38, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Try doing a OneLook search, which searches across several on-line dictionaries: http://www.onelook.com/?w=foetal&ls=a - It crops up in the Cambridge Dictionary of International English, with a note that the US spelling is "fetal" . --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 02:51, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:02, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Soundtrack query
Can anyone please tell me what the track is playing when the Doctor first arrives in the Big Brother house at the very beginning and also when he is evicted? I've tried Googling, without any success. DAJF 14:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

The Big Brother Theme Tune?? ATMarsdenWhadda ya want? 18:13, 27 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ATMarsden (talk • contribs)

External links modified
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