Talk:Basketball/Archive 1

Mike Naismith
Any relation to Mike Naismith of the Monkees?

No. The Monkee is Nesmith. --corvus13

Restructured Article
I largely restructured this article, since I found many parts that were non-NPOV or had a largely American bias. However, some of the part I cut out may still be interesting and may be included again in rewritten form. I list them here:

"Once in Scranton, Pennsylvania, a player got a bleeding cut from a plug of tobacco thrown by a spectator. Another time, a female spectator along the baseline stabbed a player after removing the hatpin from her hat."

"Today, the professional teams are far fewer; the game is tightly controlled by the League office; players are not allowed to jump from one team to another, except at certain times in certain circumscribed ways. The arenas are so large and well-lit as to have lost much of their soul."

"Basketball reminds many spectators of jazz, and both art forms have been heavily influenced by African-American rhythms. Both require a series of fundamental skills but are improvisatory; each has about five players, playing together, with frequent solos by the star players."

"If basketball's origins are Scottish-Calvinist and Presbyterian, its greatest players and innovators have been from distinctly different backgrounds. Hank Luisetti introduced the running one-handed shot; George Mikan pioneered the dominant inside play at the center position; Bob Cousy revolutionized the point guard position with his remarkable dribbling and passing.  All three were the children of immigrants."

"People often call basketball "the city game" and it's certainly accessible to poor urban children because the equipment is so minimal. But in rural Indiana and Wyoming, to name just two states, basketball has been almost a religion. City players tend to have more confidence and court savvy, but some of the greatest basketball players have been from small towns."

"Though only five players on each side can play at any one time, the "sixth man" has an important place in winning basketball. A sixth man is the first substitute in the game, and a good one can instantly change the tempo of the game, by speeding up the scoring of his own team, or clamping down on the scoring of the opponent. Officiating basketball well is quite an art, as too many calls break the flow of the game but too few calls inhibit the players' artistry and invite thuggery."

Replaced street game text
I replaced the following text. The winning score for street games varies a lot; I doubt "usually" is really valid for any one score. Mark Foskey

Usually, the first team to reach fifteen points wins, but this is based on a system where each short range basket counts for one point, long range ones for two. When the universal scoring system is used (2 points for short range shots, three for long range ones), street teams might set the game to be played for the first team to reach 30 points, although sometimes they play for 20, 40, 50, 60 or any amount of points that the players desire to play up to. Free throws (one point shots in the professional leagues and tournaments) are usually waved off on street games.

Basketball is a ball sport played by two teams of five players on a side - does anybody play half-court any more, with six players on each team but only three can cross the halfcourt line? RickK 05:14, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Incorrect picture
I think that the picture showing a front view of a basketball goal is incorrect--the distance of 3.05 meters should be from the ground to the rim, not from the ground to the bottom of the backboard. &mdash; Braaropolis | Talk 00:23, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

(Note: The picture in question has been changed, by someone, somehow, at some time after the 15th of June. So we needn't worry about the picture anymore. Neonumbers 08:25, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC))

Terms
where are the terms like rebound, assist, and the like defined in this article?--Alsocal 19:46, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

New York/Harlem Rens
both names were used by the same touring squad. i believe NY more so. Sfahey 16:12, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Shot Clock
I have created a stub article for shot clock. It should be mentioned here somewhere, as the shot clock had a tremendous impact on the game of basketball, and please link to it. And if anyone knows more about it (history, evolution), please expand the stub. Thanks! --Feitclub 18:04, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)

Dribbling
Should mention that dribbling was not originally part of the game. --Daniel C. Boyer 16:28, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was an interesting addition to the original rules, which required players to advance the ball only by passing it. Someone decided to "pass it to himself", and this idea became modified to require that the ball hit the floor before one caught his own pass. Bob Cousy added the behind the back dribble fifty years later, and now ..... Sfahey 03:38, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Team foul penalty situation
Contributor 128.172.213.85 posted a change saying that the team foul limit, by NBA rule changes, is 5. I just want to verify a source for that - I did a quick search of the NBA website on Google which returned no rule changes since 2002; and according to NBA's rules and regulations section 12 the limit is still 4.

The team foul limit of 4 does mean that free throws don't occur till the fifth team foul. A team must surpass the limit in order to be penalized with the penalty situation, thus the 4th foul, which is the limit, incurs no extra penalty. Both FIBA and NBA rules account for this.

That's what I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. &mdash;Neonumbers 10:32, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Evolution of the Rules of Basketball
The section "Evolution of the Rules of Basketball" doesn't belong where it is now. I don't know Wikipedia policy well enough to know where it does belong (or if it belongs anywhere for that matter), but it looks really out of place in this article and needs to be moved. Does anyone know where to move it to? Neonumbers 01:29, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * It looks like a (rather lengthy) appendix to me, and thus is appropriately located at the end. Sfahey 03:18, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Yea, but encyclopaedic articles don't normally have appendices, do they? Appendices are normally found in entire books on one subject.
 * I've moved it to a new page Rules of basketball, which will, with time, cover the rules of basketball in more detail as well as a more detailed account of its history. If you know lots on this field, please help develop it.  Neonumbers 11:14, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Basketball Court
The international basketball rule change in I think is was 2003 means that the broken semicircle inside the key is no longer there. The jump ball circles at either end are never used because it has been replaced by the alternating posession rule. The solid line semicircle is still there as it determines the zone where the free throw shooter is allowed (and maybe to maintain the traditional look of a court).

Can someone please change that picture? Neonumbers 10:41, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

People's History of Basketball?
In The Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven, Sherman Alexie hints that basketball may predate Naismith's "invention"--is there any evidence to support this or is he just taking poetic license?


 * A long time ago, I read about an ancient game played by the Aztecs (or maybe the Mayas, I don't remember). The game involved a ball and a ring placed on a wall, but the ring was rotated 90 degrees, such that a ball would have to travel horizontally and parallel to the wall to go through the ring.  Whether this could be considered a precursor to basketball is debatable.  As I recall, the game was closer to soccer, as the ball had to be kicked through the ring. Simishag 01:17, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Micheal Jordan
I find it weird that you fail to link to any media, specifically pictures, of Micheal Jordan. Micheal Jordan is the handsdown the worlds greatest basketball player of the modern age. I understand that basketball is an international sport, but it is well known that Micheal Jordan is one of the worlds greatest atheletes, and influential member of the sport.

- I've never heard of him! Is he any relation to Michael Jordan?

- I thought he was, hands down, the world's greatest baseball player. I don't even think he played basketball. He was quite good at baseball though.

information in article
I'm going to pull a minor deletionist stunt, despite being a mergist, and propose that information about official aspects of non-competitive or non-regulated games (or their lack of official-ness) need not be in an encyclopaedic article. I don't think the elaberation on some aspects of this article is necessary, it puts the relative section lengths out of proportion (with their importance). I'd even go as far to say that the equipment section should be way shorter and should be a subsection of regulations. Equipment commonly used but not regulated should go in common techniques in practice. The idea of having an entire section on just equipment seems a bit strange to me. Neonumbers 8 July 2005 11:12 (UTC)

Levels of basketball
I don't think it's a good idea to emphasise rule differences at different levels too much. That just makes things confusing. Only FIBA and NBA rules are needed when necessary, everything lower can just be left out, except for some common practices. On that note, try not to go on about rules too much either. I think we need to look at common practice more... (this comment also reflects some of my recent edits) Neonumbers 8 July 2005 11:40 (UTC)


 * Is there a page where we can place the rules of basketball? BTW – in most instances, the rules are similar between all levels. Most of the differences I noted in my earlier edits had to do with game length, roster size, etc. To get into all the rules differences ... well, you'd obviously need a forum that's different from Wikipedia. :-) Briguy52748 23:24, 9 July 2005 (UTC)]]


 * Yep, rules of basketball, which I originally created to remove a timeline of rule changes which I haven't yet got round to putting in paragraphs... anyway, rules of basketball is the article dedicated to rules. I think that the rules of basketball - and, for that matter, those of different organisations (I read a summary on that in FIBA Assist 14, it was 5 pages long!) - have a place in this encyclopedia, and well, that's the place.
 * I don't know if I mentioned anything about the section "equipment" and how I think it shouldn't be there, that should be in the rules page and a summary, without measurements, on this page. I think the thing to work towards on this article is a section and only one section on rules and regulations with that "Main article" link to Rules of basketball.  Neonumbers 10:14, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Hole in the basket?
Is it true or a myth that in the first games of basketball, a complete basket, without a hole at the bottom, was used? The story goes on to say that someone ended up breaking through the bottom of the basket. Once the players realized the significance of this change, they went ahead and punched a hole through the other one. This doesn't seem very likely to be true, but still funny. -- Myria 04:32, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, I read that there was originally a ladder set up next to the basket to retrieve the ball. That got old really quick, so Naismith cut out a trapdoor in the bottom of the basket, which could be opened by pulling on a rope which hung below the basket. I have no idea when they started using nets, though. Miraculouschaos 21:39, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

removed list of international NBA players
The list was getting far too long for an overview article, so I moved it to List of National Basketball Association players by country. Also, I removed the following paragraph, as it is too specific for a history overview:


 * ''Here are just a few of the outstanding international players who have played or still play in the NBA:

Many outstanding non-US players, including Serbia and Montenegro's Dejan Bodiroga and past Olympian Oscar Schmidt of Brazil, have chosen to decline NBA opportunities. Jasikevicius himself only joined the NBA in 2005 after playing in Europe for seven seasons, the last three of which ended in Euroleague titles for the team he was with.''

Neonumbers 10:23, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

the greatest intramural basketball team ever
- Many have debated the value of intramural basketball only to arrive at the same answer every time. Intramural basketball is the only place where true basketball lives. The teams are better than that of any organized teams and the skills of the players are unsurpassed by anyone ever to hold a basketball. But the true debate doesn't end there. Who is the best intramural basketball team. Well, the votes have been taken. The tournament is over. The best intramural basketball team in the world is the Pandemic of Purple Panda Pandamonium. This all-star intramural team is based out of Hutchinson, MN. Led by many sexy and very talented players, the Quad P's, as the are reffered to as, absolutely destroy any team they face on the court. The Pandemic of Purple Panda Pandamonium will reign as the greatest intramural basketball team ever to walk the earth.