Talk:Beer in Australia

Beer Glass sizes
I notice the table of Beer Glass Sizes is ...[ misinforamtion removed by original contributor, see below ...mea culpa !] --Textbot 07:06, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * What are your suggested changes? I can help you change the table

Update : geeze, lucky I didn't change the table : on reflection, is see it refers to the PRESENT, as distinct from the Historical PAST to which I referred ....--Textbot 07:06, 11 July 2006 (UTC) Stouts : I'd love to be able to link the contrib I made on "Stouts" to the main/international Stouts page ( ie internal link) ..anyone who can, please feel free to help me --Textbot 07:06, 11 July 2006 (UTC) Does anybody know of the first brewery established in Australia? seems to claim James Squire established the first brewery (this was written by the guy who runs the Malt Shovel Brewery, and may be somewhat biased), but does anyone know for sure?

I am reasonably certain that the Cascade Brewery is oldest brewery that is still operating.

-3mta3 12:40, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The name Squire is older, but it was a defunct business for a long time before Lion Nathan resurrected it, as to claim the title. Cascade has been continuously operating and deserves the title through genuine age rather than marketing [albeit Squire's genuine quality]

-Ml_grug I beleive also that Squire is an older name but has only recently been used on Beer again. Cascade has operated since it started.

-vagon As part of the guide I feel that something like Lord Nelson's in the rocks should be noted seeing as it is (well claims to be) both the oldest hotel in Sydney and a brewery. The fortune of war claims to be the oldest pub but I'm fairly sure they don't brew.

I remember going to SA and ordering a Pint and thinking how cheap it was till I realised it was really a Schooner. :) -Mike "TinTin"

Airgead 03:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC) Do we need the advert from Chopper heavy in the main section? Also, do they use schooners in VIC? I always thought the prefered size there was the pint and ordering a schooner would mark you out for ridicule as a new South Welshman.-Leigh

Four years ago, staying at Waurn Ponds, Geelong, VIC for uni. purposes (Deakin) I inadvertently ordered a schooner at the Waurn Ponds Pub and was given a quick education! Last Year at the same place I was surprised to see schooners being served. I ordered one, commented on the changing 'culture' and was informed that they do pints as well now, so I drank pints from then on! An English themed pub has opened in Geelong (the Bended Elbow) and pints are the default there. --MichaelGG 03:43, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Some places in Vic have been serving schooners, not many. It may have something to do with the Melbourne Beer War

As a young Victorian who has only been drinking since circa 2010, I've seen glasses, pots, schooners, pints and jugs but nothing else (other than ponies at microbreweries). Few people order glasses, pots are often standard and some places only go as high as a schooner rather than a pint. I'm not sure why it says schooners aren't common. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.138.67 (talk) 05:46, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

New beer glass template
I've replaced the old table with Template:Aust Beer Glass. The new table is a combination of the old one & a similar one that had resided on Australian words/Australian English vocabulary/Australian English terms for food and drink. The new table is a little different to the old one but there are reasons for this. Whether these reasons are the right reasons is another question. Please have a look at the new table & correct any errors. Jimp 05:20, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Very comprehensive! Up to the early 90s in Queensland 8 oz beers were regularly served in Brisbane but 7 oz in country areas. I lived in Bundaberg then Maryborough and beers were usually ordered as "a seven please" or "three tens and two sevens please (i.e. in a 'shout')". Nowadays they seem to have almost completely disappeared, but I have seen some elderly patrons at our local RSL club being served beer in a 'seven' glass.--MichaelGG 03:50, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The template is up for deletion on the grounds that it contains errors and it is not referenced. Can it be saved? Jɪmp 15:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

These beers are gaining market share?
There not only gaining market share, but DECENT market share at that? "Brands such as Chopper Heavy 6%, 3 Ravens, Holgate and Mountain Goat are all gaining decent market share"

Who wrote that? The marketing departments of "Chopper Heavy 6%, 3 Ravens, Holgate and Mountain Goat" I suspect?

Far from gaining decent market share, I'd suspect the vast majority of beer drinkers would never have even heard of them!

I'd say, cite something showing these beers growing "decent" market share, or remove it - it's seemingly just a free plug!

Too hot for ale brewing?
This is an oversimplification, the problem with temperature is that, unlike more temperate countries such as the UK and Ireland, the climate can vary wildly, for example Melbourne's "4 seasons in one day" and before modern temperature control systems the brewing of ale could be a hit or miss affair, likely to be interrupted by cold snaps as well as heatwaves (areas such as Ballarat or Toowoomba which get very cold and had long established breweries)

Lager brewing is ideally suited to the climate because the temperature control system (i.e. refrigeration)works well in hot weather, and is aided by cool weather - a "win win".

Have amended page slightly --MichaelGG 23:57, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Any beer will brew at 35C, and will brew very quickly. It won't taste very good, and will need 2 weeks simply for the yeast to clear. Colder temps help lager bugs to attenuate a little better, and for the proteins to coagulate and sink. The beer will still function as intended.27.33.247.140 (talk) 04:47, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Specialities & Micros
I think there is a distinction to be made, as these two are NOT identical categories: Speciality is much more than the micros ! I have also re-posted my links to "cosmopolitan"...Feroshki (talk) 07:52, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Cohn Bros
I have read in a couple of places, including a family history "Tablets of Memory", that the Cohn Bros brewery in the Victorian gold fields was the first in Australia to brew lagers - one of the Cohn brothers went to Germany to learn the new technique. This contradicts the statement in the article that Gambrinus brewed the first lagers in Australia. What are the sources for this statement? Dr Tom Conway (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 00:56, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

pint
This article states the pint used in Australia is 570ml/20fl oz. A pint is 568ml/20 fl oz. is this a mistake or are the pints actualy made up to 570 in Aus? --Brideshead (talk) 10:42, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Aus pints are English pints, being 20floz (568.261ml). American pints are an older definition, being 16floz (473.176ml). The US floz is 29.573ml, although the USFDA defines a floz as 30ml. East coast pub glass sizes are midi/pot=10floz, schooner=15floz, and pint=20floz. 7oz and 5oz glasses are now only used for spirits. Air Conditioning installed in most pubs by 1980 obviated the need for small beer glasses. Most pubs will not serve beer in these glasses.14.202.248.82 (talk) 06:57, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

New ? Bottle size
I came across a bottle of Toohey's Extra Dry recently in the (odd!) size of 696ml, which AFAIK is nothing equivalent to a round measure in the usual international systems ( UK or US)which it might be if it was an export size ( what about Japan, though ?). This is interesting because it contradicts the trend towards "unit pricing", and is thus "anti-consumer". Any ideas ? Feroshki (talk) 22:35, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Stubbies (13 fl.oz) were exclusively used by XXXX in Queensland until the early 70s. Other brands used 26fl.oz bottles, and 13fl.oz steel cans. The first "stubbies" in Sydney were the frog mouth types used by KB, circa 1973. These had very large ring-pull steel caps, and a lot of drunken fingers were cut on the very sharp edges. US standard sized "stubby" is 12fl.oz, as is the coke can, so a lot of export beer is now bottled in this size, or 330ml. European beers are increasingly using 440 (20fl.oz) to 500ml as their "stubby" sized can. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.244.75.87 (talk) 03:16, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Jug
So what about jugs? I am not sure if they are common in all states/territories, or whether there is standard size for them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.196.92.158 (talk) 23:57, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

AHA jugs were 1125ml, or three 375ml stubbies. There was no official standard size, though. Australian-made and calibrated AHA glassware is long gone now. Most historical measures, such as demijohn or flagon or magnum, don't have official sizes. A flagon can be 1/2 gallon, or a full gallon, etc.14.202.248.82 (talk) 08:21, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Beer in SA
Quick question - an IP added: 350 ml (12 fl oz) known as a "metropolis" to the list of SA beer sizes. I'm not much of a beer drinker, but I haven't heard of that size before - it could be my ignorance, but because it was unsourced I removed it for now. Is anyone able to confirm that this is a South Australian beer glass size? - Bilby (talk) 14:14, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I've occasionally heard it here in SA but I don't think its widespread. -- PennyDancer — Preceding unsigned comment added by PennyDancer (talk • contribs) 13:18, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Needs a Re-Write
This article is about the most piece-meal and worst written article I've come across. A lot of drunks trying to write something sensible (hic). Needs to be locked and rewritten by a professional piss pot. "Fosters bros arrive from NY with refrigeration equipment ..." Didn't the Australian Thomas Mort invent the first commecial friges. NOT freakin New Yorkers !!!! Where ice is available all year 'round!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.213.61.59 (talk) 09:07, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The template is from 2008 and this article is still not up to standard. I am going to do some work on it now, but any help will be very much welcome, as 5 years is long enough!--Soulparadox (talk) 12:51, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

The history bit is just educated guess work. Lager strains did not arrive in the UK until 100yrs after the first fleet. There were a lot of German immigrants during the potato famine, and I'll bet some of them brought supplies into SA. The very first beer brewed in Oz was at a stall on the Sydney-Parramatta road. Nettles were used in place of hops; an old English recipe. The malt was derived from imported grain, most likely wheat.27.33.247.140 (talk) 04:56, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Abbott's Lager?
I remember this from my childhood (Melbourne in the 40s). Where did it come from and who made it? Is there any connection with a brewer named William Henry Abbott who was active as a brewer in Launceston around 1880? Pamino (talk) 00:59, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

It would have been produced at CUB's Abbotsford Brewery in Melbourne, where they still do Abbotsford Invalid Stout. Every now and again CUB have to do a batch of extinct beers (for example Ballarat Bitter) to keep their ownership of the trademark, who knows they might do a batch of Abbotts Lager eventually. --MichaelGG (talk) 05:09, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Abbott's was one of the firms that merged to make CUB, circa 1910. THe dominant partner was Victoria Brewery. They had "VB" written vertically in red print on all their labels. The beer was simply called Bitter Ale. The public had incorrectly assumed that VB stood for Victoria Bitter, and so CUB renamed it to that in the 50s.14.202.248.82 (talk) 08:32, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Taxation
I tried to add this new section but I don't have access. Can someone add it.

Beer and spirits are heavily taxed by the Federal Government compared to wine. All alcoholic beverages incur an excise that is in addition to other taxes. There is little on no excise on domestically produced wine. For 2015 typical prices, the effective cost of 1L of alcohol is $125 in spirits, $113 in beer, and less than $30 in wine in bulk 4L casks. Beer and spirits are produced mostly by large companies most of which are owned international concerns. Wine and wine grapes are produced on farms and many of which are family concerns. In keeping with policies of agricultural protectionism, farm products are treated with favour and wine is not excised. The excise on the 'big business' beer and spirits is claimed to place a curb on excessive alcohol consumption. Nevertheless most alcohol abuse occurs with cheap wine and particularly with the bulk cask wine. 4L and 5L casks of 10% ABV wine can be purchased often for less than $10. A 9L carton of 4% beer costs $45. It is a case of a cash grab by the Federal government using reasoning that they do not adhere to themselves.27.33.247.208 (talk) 05:36, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

❌ Got a source for that? Kendall-K1 (talk) 17:40, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, get NAT 72660 (PDF) from the ATO. It lists the cutoff strengths of beer for each of the excise levels. Go to Dan Murphy's and check the prices: 1. VB $48/carton, 2; JW $38 per 700ml, Oak cask wine $9 per 4L, McWilliams Sherry $11 for 2L at 18%. I forgot to mention that if a brewery sells beer onsite there is no excise on that beer.( Buy some XXX at the Milton brewery and see how much cheaper it is.) No excise if the brewery's total production is less than 30 tonnes per annum. Excises are usually proclaimed by some public servant and they are very reluctant to advertise these facts. Note that beer is *much* cheaper to make than wine.27.33.247.187 (talk) 12:43, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

For a standard drink (i.e. same amount of alcohol): spirits have a Fed tax of $1, beer is 45c, and wine is 5c. Source "ABC Landline", 14 Nov, Cider piece.220.245.40.163 (talk) 02:19, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Article on SA butcher and serving sizes
This might be a useful reference: "Take a butcher's hook at the butcher glass", Brews News, Brett J. Stubbs (2012). https://www.brewsnews.com.au/2012/06/09/take-a-butchers-hook-at-the-butcher-glass/

In addition to the "butcher", the article also mentions the downshift in SA serving sizes.

Despite some stories of small servings for short workers' breaks, the butcher may have originally been a large serve intermediate between a half-pint and a pint (like the NSW schooner).

Pelagic (talk) 10:38, 29 November 2017 (UTC) Pelagic (talk) 10:38, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Units used inconsistency and inaccuracy
The section regarding the volume measurements used has a part which is poorly written and lacking in consistency. >The (425 ml) schooner is only regularly requested in NSW and most other states generally drink the smaller pot or middy. A pint is a misnomer in all states bar NSW. In NSW and WA a pint is the larger imperial measure, in all other states it is the 425-475ml NSW schooner. It claims that the 20 fl oz pint is only regularly used in NSW and WA, when Victoria by my knowledge frequently uses it as well. This assertion also contradicts that given in the table above it. I am not confident enough with my sources to change it currently though.Deonyi (talk) 01:36, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

I know this is only my understanding, but i believe ^9 in the beer size table is incorrect, specifically saying "traditionally". Schooners have long been sold in WA, though it has been hard in the last few decades to find a pub or bar that sells them. My understanding is that in the 90s there was an infux of British themed pubs that sold British ales in pint glasses and this became quite popular, to the point of pubs more generally serving all beers in pint glasses (even if the type of beer didn't suit being served in a wide glass (that's a thing right?, I feel it's a thing)). Schooners have come back a bit of late though, refer https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/sneaky-pintsized-tricks-in-perth-are-not-smart-business-20160707-gq10bk.html(.) I'm not an editor so will leave this for others to consider 61.68.193.4 (talk) 10:04, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Using an extract from a book of fiction as a quote about real life should be removed
I note under History 19th century that an extract from the book "For the term of his natural life" by Marcus Clarke is used to reinforce claims of ongoing public inebriation at that time, including drunkenness in children. While the novel was based on research undertaken by the author as well as a visit to the penal settlement of Port Arthur, Tasmania, none but the author can possibly know how much is truth and how much is fiction.

A fictional book does not necessarily reflect real life, so using a quote from a piece of fiction should be removed, otherwise where is the data to actually confirm its veracity? If there is historical data on which this novel is claimed to be based, then I suggest that the historical data should be used to confirm this claim, and not a book of fiction.

Tzali (talk) 05:13, 6 December 2022 (UTC)