Talk:Bethany Dillon

Untitled

 * this article is in need of some sources for all the quotes throughout it. Osmaker 02:55, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bethanydillon-top5.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Bethanydillon-tbsep.jpg
Image:Bethanydillon-tbsep.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page. If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 01:37, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bethanydillon-connectsets.jpg
Image:Bethanydillon-connectsets.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page. If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 01:38, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Childhood
I would like to learn more about Bethany Dillon's Childhood. This article only gives a short sentance or two. Not very informative on what little is there. Could somebody please fix this. 72.65.198.21 20:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Go to this Bethany Dillon fan site. It has brief information. You may also find further information on message boards out there somewhere. Am 8821 17:33, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism and protection
I have inserted a protection on this page due to recent vandalism. - User:Dwilczyn —Preceding undated comment added by Dwilczyn (talk • contribs) 04:48, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians, I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Bethany Dillon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes: When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080227014701/http://www.rhapsody.com:80/bethanydillon to http://www.rhapsody.com/bethanydillon

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Assessment comment
Substituted at 09:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 18 February 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. It appears that Dillon is the primary name used by sources. Primefac (talk) 13:31, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Bethany Dillon → Bethany Barnard – It seems the subject is now releasing music under the new name. We would need to leave a redirect at Bethany Dillon, and likely have to modify the article to reflect the new name. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:35, 18 February 2017 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 05:45, 27 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Support per nomination. All references, including subject's own website, YouTube channel and public communications confirm that her professional name is Bethany Barnard. &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 22:47, 18 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose without further evidence that the subject is widely referred to in reliable secondary sources by her new name. Most of her notability seems to derive from work as Bethany Dillon.  Note Wikipedia has articles called Cat Stevens, not Yusuf Islam, Mos Def, not Yasiin Bey (and no Snoop Lion).  —  AjaxSmack   15:16, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment. Needless to say, performers/entertainers are best known to the public by their stage names/professional names. Cat Stevens is, indeed, best known by his stage name and not by his adopted name Yusuf Islam, nor by his birth name Steven Demetre Georgiou. Likewise, Mos Def is known by his WP:COMMONNAME and not by his adopted name Yaslin Bey nor by his birth name Dante Terrell Smith. Bethany Barnard, in contrast, is this performer's stage name as well as personal name, thus indicating a key difference from the examples of Cat Stevens and Mos Def. She has not been known to the public by her birth name Bethany Joy Adelsberger and her former stage name Bethany Dillon has been replaced by Bethany Barnard. Unlike Cat Stevens and Mos Def who never claimed that Yusuf Islam and Yaslin Bey were stage names, nor did they release any recordings under those names, Bethany Barnard is, in fact, currently performing and releasing recordings under her new stage name and has a current professional performer website as Bethany Barnard, notwithstanding the existence of numerous albums which have her former stage name on the cover. &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 19:07, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Additional comment. It has been pointed out, by way of the appended illustration, that one of the above-mentioned performers has, in fact, returned to performing and recording under the stage name, Yusuf (singer) which, along with Yusuf Islam, redirects to Cat Stevens. With that fact taken into account, the comparison to Bethany Barnard is, however, very slight. A world famous singer-songwriter's return to performing after decades away from the public is not comparable to a relatively recent performer who is continuing her career under a new surname without making the claim that her former surname had such high public visibility that she would be unrecognizable under her new appellation or that the change would confuse those who follow her performances. Confusion, if any, would only result from continuing to feature a main header with a name which the performer is no longer using. A redirect to the former name, along with explanation in the article, itself, should suffice. &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 03:04, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Not one reliable source uses "Barnard". Rather sources like Teen Vogue and Marin Independence Journal have used "Dillon". George Ho (talk) 08:00, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. It's up to the nom to provide a case in terms of WP:AT. There has been no attempt to do this, and the evidence presented so far is overwhelmingly that the new name has not yet eclipsed the old (and it may never do so). Andrewa (talk) 11:40, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * If there's some arcane rule that it is up to the nominator rather that the person commenting, I'm sorry I missed it. Would you be kind enough to show me that. For album deletions there's WP:BEFORE, but I don't know of such for move discussions. The evidence, however, is in the article. I don't really care whether it changes or not, but I will take it off my watch list if anons continue to change it because the subject has changed her name and consensus is against that. Are you prepared to watch the article based on your !vote? Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:47, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your interest in improving Wikipedia, but I take it that you have not read WP:RM. Strongly suggest that you do so (and also WP:AT if you haven't read that either) before taking any further part in any RM. Best. Andrewa (talk) 22:49, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I have and I was going to make an undiscussed move because its not controversial and all it states in WP:RM is that I have to provide a reason, not sources. And AT doesn't either so drop the attitude. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:37, 13 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Post move
I think I need to reply to above so as not to mislead others.

WP:RM states Make your point as best you can; use evidence (such as Ngrams and pageview statistics) and refer to applicable policies and guidelines, especially our article titling policy and the guideline on disambiguation and primary topic. (my emphasis) How anyone could think that a case could be made for this move without supplying evidence is frankly beyond me.

Please, all read WP:AT if you have not already done so, and if you think there are any arcane rules there discuss at WT:AT and/or WT:RM and get them changed. Good luck. Andrewa (talk) 11:33, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I have never heard such nonsense. NGRAMS are for books and are at least two year out-of-date. Good luck yourself. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:48, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree that WP:RM#CM is far from perfect, but you were the one who cited it, and it doesn't support you at all. And again please note what it actually says: ...evidence (such as Ngrams and pageview statistics).... (my emphasis) It's not perfect, but it's far from nonsense (and if you think it's nonsense why were you citing it... underreading again?) and in either case the place to discuss it is WT:RM.
 * But certainly agree that NGRAMS and page stats are not the best examples of relevant evidence. Hear, hear! See user:andrewa/The Problem With Page Views for more on that. Andrewa (talk) 19:56, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Name change to Bethany Barnard
Shouldn't this page be changed from Bethany Dillon to the name Bethany Barnard? This has been Bethany's name ever since she got married in 2008, and is how she is known, for example her official website: https://bethanybarnard.com

Now that time has elapsed since her marriage, Bethany Barnard is also how sources refer to her consistently, e.g. https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/video/i-shall-not-want-bethany-barnard-shane-shane-davy-flowers/

Changing the name is consistent with how similar artists who change their name/gender etc on Wikipedia are handled. If this isn't contested/challenged, I'll implement the name change to Bethany Barnard. Gregorytopov (talk) 03:53, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Only if it becomes a better-known name than Bethany Dillon. Wikipedia uses the subject's WP:COMMONNAME. Since her output seems to have peaked fifteen years ago, I do not expect any more press nor do I expect a change in the article's location. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:32, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * So if someone marries and changes their name, that isn't how Wikipedia refers to them? It seems distinctly odd for an encyclopedia not to use someone's current name. Gregorytopov (talk) 23:51, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I take it you elected not to read WP:COMMONNAME. I do not have anything to add to that. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:13, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes I have. The relevant part is this:
 * Sometimes the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to independent, reliable English-language sources ("reliable sources") written after the name change. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match. If, on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well, as described above in "Use commonly recognizable names".
 * Firstly, it seems to me that this is slightly different than what you stated ("Only if it becomes a better-known name than Bethany Dillon.") The issue is not that the new name becomes better known, but whether reliable sources after the name change is announced continue to use the old name or the new one.  Secondly, can you think of examples paralleling Bethany Barnard, where someone married, had an official name change, and Wikipedia continued to use their old name? Gregorytopov (talk) 23:36, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I do not need to. You need to show that people are looking for Bethany Barnard more frequently than Bethany Dillon. You claim that sources are regularly calling her Bethany Barnard but have failed to provide any. Yet, Apple Music still lists her at the former: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/bethany-dillon/6950279 rather than the latter https://music.apple.com/us/artist/bethany-barnard/1199149043 (I had to search for that). Jesus Freak Hideout also lists her new albums, https://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/cdreviews/AllMyQuestions.asp https://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/cdreviews/ABetterWord.asp but https://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/artists/BethanyDillon.asp Dillon is her primary page. The main problem is that the majority of media on the subject is still keyed to her former name. I do not think you will accept my opinion, so we could go to a broader audience. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:29, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Further, Google NGrams does not even recognize the term Bethany Barnard https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Bethany+Dillon%2CBethany+Barnard&year_start=2000&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3 try adding another Christian artist or two: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Bethany+Dillon%2CBethany+Barnard%2CLexi+Elisha%2CBill+Mallonee&year_start=2000&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2CBethany%20Dillon%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CBill%20Mallonee%3B%2Cc0#t1%3B%2CBethany%20Dillon%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CBill%20Mallonee%3B%2Cc0 "Ngrams not found: Bethany Barnard". Just not well enough known. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:46, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the effort you've put in to provide a detailed response. Gregorytopov (talk) 13:24, 16 January 2022 (UTC)