Talk:Big Brother: Over the Top

Page Creation
Created article since CBS has released an official announcement with details.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  05:09, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Do we know if this will be Big Brother 19 or if they will give a different name to the digital edition of the series? - Katanin (talk) 20:11, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Its being referred to as Big Brother 19 by the press and Julie Chen used the hashtag #BB19 in a tweet confirming her role as host of the new edition. We can always move the page if CBS decides to use a different numbering scheme for the online edition.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  10:01, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * There was a press release today stating that Big Brother 19 will air in the summer of 2017 and Big Brother 20 will air the summer of 2018. This season will be a digital spin-off but no official name. Nobo71-Wikipedia.org 19:31, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 September 2016
In the list of previous winners it lists Paul Abrahamian as the winner for season 18. The season is not over yet and the winner has not been chosen.

67.214.200.81 (talk) 08:57, 20 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The page is not semi-protected. You can make the edit yourself. — MRD2014 (talk) (contribs) 00:24, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
 * At the time the user requested to make the edit the page was semi-protected due to consistent vandalism. The semi-protection started on 23:39, September 18, 2016‎ and ended on 03:39, 22 September 2016.  ♪♫Al  ucard   16♫♪  05:19, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

There is alot of people that keep chaging the vote before the eviction and messing with the page.

Big Brother 19
Julie Chen called this season the next season, meaning it is a continuation of the previous big brother, should this be called Season 19? Chase (talk) 18:07, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Not actually called "19", but put in between 18 and 19. Chase (talk) 18:15, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
 * We should stick to what it is because that is what is on the official website MSalmon (talk) 21:10, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I wasn't talking about renaming it, but it shouldn't be placed in it's own entity. This season is the season after 18 and before 19 and should be presented that way. Chase (talk) 23:03, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
 * CBS is clearly separating the two the main/parent version with the established format is airing on their network. The digital edition is being considered a spin-off of its parent with its own format. Their press releases are separating the two in this manner and should be reflected as such. Now if CBS was to classify Over the Top as the next 19th season like they identified All-Stars as the 7th season then it wouldn't be separated. CBS however is making it very clear the digital streaming edition is separate than the broadcast television edition.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  23:25, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

This should be Big Brother 19! Mandy420 (talk) 04:33, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

America's Influence
America gets a vote to evict and the ability to pick a nominee. Their vote should be added in the voting section however the name "America" will be in blue. The name should always be kept below the other houseguests, even as they are evicted. Bgc7676 (talk) 17:51, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Putting it at the top would place it in an awkward position in the middle once the twist is eventually retired or when someone eventually wins the game. No need to unnecessarily break the HouseGuests up in the chart.- Katanin (talk) 19:43, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * That is why i separated it. Chase (talk) 20:01, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Since it is a regular vote America's eviction vote should be right above "Evicted" with "America's vote to evict" that would be clear and self explanatory. The blue color should only be used in events of twists where America wouldn't normally have a vote or influence.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  04:52, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

We do not put for example "Morgan's vote to evict" so putting that for America would not make sense. Also the MVP in bb15 was blue, it has been used for twists involving America. Bgc7676 (talk) 05:15, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
 * This is not a twist this is a regular part of the format and aspects of the format should not be repeated in notes when it is explained at the top of the table, and should be explained in the format section. The color blue should only be used when America has gained a power that normally wasn't for the viewers like MVP was originally a power for the HouseGuests not America, Canada's HoH is another example. The table has to be accessible to everyone that visits this article not just editors from America. The color is not needed and we do not need Notes 1 & 2 every single week of the table its unnecessary.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  05:19, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

This has been agreed upon by everyone but you. Please stop editing it. Bgc7676 (talk) 21:15, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can change it without consensus, you don't own the article MSalmon (talk) 09:53, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The article should conform to MOS:ACCESS and the established Wikiproject: Big Brother guidelines. Also having the color, the extra black bar along with "1,2" in the notes section makes the article size bigger than what it needs to be. There is no reason to have the box America blue when it is clearly noted marked as America's eviction vote and by having a short discription at the top tells the reader about America's nomination vote and the America's eviction vote. That reduces size of the article and cuts out a lot of repeated information. Just because you and 2 other editors like that format doesn't mean its covenant for someone who is color blind. The article should be edited in a way that it can achieve good or featured article status. No one here is even willing to discuss or to look at a different idea. Three people agreeing is not make it decided upon. If you think the current way is better then explain it. Discuss it, consider other editor's ideas instead of constantly reverting without giving it a second thought. Is it that bad to have the box the standard color saying "America's eviction vote" without the black line below it when it has beneficial aspects like reducing article size, reducing repeating information and making the table more accessible to other readers to understand? I feel like I am bashing my head against a brick wall here.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  05:05, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I fail to see two people agreeing with them here. Only has agreed to this format. Also, I'm not aware of any policy that restricts "article size". So, I am not sure that is a good argument. However, for lack of redundancy is the best argument you presented and I agree with you. Also, stating there is consensus for something on this article, besides those brought up on "Wikiproject: Big Brother guidelines" is false. Nothing on this page has received new consensus and that arguement is invalid to use. Chase (talk) 16:00, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Here is the WP:LENGTH about article sizes  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  01:31, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

The reasoning for this format is because blue indicates that America is not a houseguest which is also why it has been separated. "America" should be used instead of "America's Vote To Evict" because we do not say for example "Whitney's vote to evict" we say "Whitney." The value of the vote is the same as any other houseguest so it should not be presented with a different title. We have the blue and the italicization which shows perfectly it is not a houseguest. Also with the included notes, it shows that as well. Having "America's vote to evict" is long, sloppy and makes the column a lot larger than all of the others which doesn't help the article at all. It negatively effects the look of it as well as the understanding. Bgc7676 (talk) 19:40, 2 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I think a visual look how the table could potentially develop would work best. The current format that wants to keep will be known as Proposal One while the alternate format that I have suggested will be known as Proposal Two. I have here on my sandbox a mock-up of both proposals that include the Head of Household needing to break a tie and 1 America's Care Package that had a temporary effect on the game. As the season progresses there could be a double eviction and possibly other America's Care Packages that may introduce something new that we didn't see in Big Brother 18 (U.S.) that could require a note or special color added to the table.
 * Proposal One includes the blue italicized America's column with notes every week to explain America's eviction vote along with a note explaining their nomination. In this version you can clearly see how those two notes will become repetitive the notes column loses its effect to clearly explain to a casual reader the one off instances like the Head of Household tiebreaker and any America's Care Packages or other twists.
 * Proposal Two is the same mock-up as Proposal One except both America's nomination vote and America's eviction vote is clearly explained at the top once. When you look at the Notes column it places more emphasis on explaining the Head of Household tiebreaker and the America's Care Package twists.
 * When you compare the two side by side with the same content Proposal Two is an easy, clear to read table while as the season progresses Proposal One becomes the harder to read table that looks sloppy, creating unnecessary notes and emphasizes one row (namely America) as being more important than all the other rows with the two solid black lines. I ask each of you to look at both carefully and take into consideration how the tables will both look once the season is finished before deciding on a certain format.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  22:52, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
 * There is no point having notes and the bit at the top of the table, either have just the notes or the bit at the top not both MSalmon (talk) 20:53, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Voting History Columns
Usually throughout the seasons the rows of people's voting history are a lot thicker. How can we fix this? Bgc7676 (talk) 20:44, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Once they are evicted or become Head of Household then they will become thicker --MSalmon (talk) 21:34, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

I know but usually throughout the season we do not have this issue before one of those two things occur. Bgc7676 (talk) 03:40, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It happens every season even with the Nomination tables used by the international Big Brother articles.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  01:54, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Identifying who's safe in the table
These housemates that the Head of Household is choosing as "safe" are not completely immune from nominations they are still eligible for public nominations and being the potential re-nom if the Power of Veto is used. Someone should only be highlighted yellow if they are 100% completely immune from eviction outside of being the Head of Household or the Power of Veto winner.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  01:37, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Summary/Episodes section
Switched the summary to recapping the weekly episodes so the article would meet WP:N and WP:FAN guidelines. The Summary/Episodes section shouldn't be overly detailed explaining every moment of the season only key moments from the episodes should be noted in the episode recaps. Similar to Big Brother 17 (U.S.) key events can be noted as they happen on the live feeds but within their respective episode row like this week's events should be under "Episode 2" and so forth. If the recaps become too large we can break it off into a separate article like Big Brother 17 (U.S.).  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  12:06, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Week 3 Veto
Green will be used to represent boomerang veto if used. Blue will represent diamond. If it is a double veto it will be a light pink. Bgc7676 (talk) 19:37, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The table doesn't need a separate color to identify this veto a note in the table will suffice that this Veto is different than the regular Golden Power of Veto. Besides that blue clashes with the blue that is being used for American and can't be used.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  00:25, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Also the green clashes with the green used for Head of Household.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  00:49, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * We don't need a color for America's eviction vote because it is a regular part of the game. MSalmon (talk) 20:11, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Co-HOH and Double Eviction Veto
This edit makes it a lot more clear that Jason was the co-head of household and Shelby was the competition winner. Competitions based on America's vote will be in purple.

Bgc7676 (talk) 20:30, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Final 4 Do or Die Comp
Morgan's win, similar to a coup detat, should be listed under the veto section. Although it was not a veto win, it will help show that she won the comp. it will be shown like this. The comp was also technically a veto competition as it removed someone from the block, giving them safety.

Bgc7676 (talk) 07:31, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * There was no veto competition so doesn't need to be included. MSalmon (talk) 18:04, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Msalmon. It just makes things more confusing, the table explains it well enough as is. – Katanin (talk) 20:53, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Showing runner ups and winners
It should look like this. Wrapping "fewest votes" for Kryssie and Jason makes it way too messy.

Semi-protected edit request on 4 December 2016
Please revert to the previous edit due to vandalism. Change from: Dbbrock (talk) 09:34, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done. Vandalism reverted by Msalmon. Thanks for your request. &#9733;&#9734; DUCK IS JAMMMY &#9734;&#9733; 13:14, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Voting during the final
Hi, were the votes frozen at all during the final because if not then it should be out of 3 not out of 2 (which should only be used if the voting was frozen)? MSalmon (talk) 20:39, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Reply to : Kryssie was eliminated, leaving two left. So that revealed she received the fewest votes out of the three. In the final, Morgan won revealing she received the most votes out of all three and both her and Jason. Therefore leaving Jason receiving the fewest votes between Morgan and him (2). -- Chase |  talk 21:13, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * So the voting closed before Kryssie left? --MSalmon (talk) 22:17, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Reply to : I have no clue, but it shouldn't matter. -- Chase |  talk 23:03, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * If the voting has closed before Kyrssie left then it should be out of 3 because the public were voting for three people. If it closed after that then Jason should be out of 2 because it was between him and Morgan. See UK series for examples. MSalmon (talk) 23:28, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Reply to : I actually watch the UK series and this is how we do it there as well. For example, on the last season of Celebrity Big Brother, they have out of 4, out of 3, out of 2, etc. However, if Jason and Kryssie were eliminated at the same time, they both would be out of 3, but that is not the case. We know that Kryssie got the least amount of votes out of all three of them, Jason came in second with the least amount of votes out of Morgan and himself, but received more votes than Kryssie, and Morgan won. It is incorrect to say Jason got the fewest amount of votes out of three because that would be Kryssie. Jason didn't get the most votes, nor did he get the fewest out of three. -- Chase |  talk 01:40, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The voting closed prior to the finale started then they revealed who got 3rd place leaving two in the house and revealing who won at the end. Its not like the UK where the voting continues throughout the finale and the voting lines were frozen. Fewest votes to win should be Kryssie and Fewer votes to win should be for Jason but doing the Fewest votes (out of x) would be easier considering they don't release the percentages and it would reflect the way the finale revealed the winner during the finale.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  14:05, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * That's all I wanted to know that the vote closed before 3rd place MSalmon (talk) 20:08, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Wrap feature?
Does anyone know why we can't prevent things from wrapping anymore? Bgc7676 (talk) 19:49, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 12 July 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Did not move the first, but moved second.  Anarchyte ( work  &#124;  talk )  12:10, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

– Similar to Celebrity Big Brother (U.S. TV series), it was previously decided that article needed to follow WP:NCTV. The same idea applies to both articles in question. OfficerAPC (talk) 18:28, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Big Brother: Over the Top → Big Brother: Over the Top (U.S. TV series)
 * Gran Hermano USA → Gran Hermano (U.S. TV series)
 * Oppose first, support second: Opposing the first because there is no other Big Brother: Over the Top. If there were multiple BBOTT's I would support but there is nothing that it needs disambiguating from.


 * If another country ever created a BBOTT I would support the move. A similar example is Teen Big Brother: The Experiment: if multiple countries had a series named this it would need to be moved to Teen Big Brother: The Experiment (UK TV series) but as the UK is the ONLY country with a series named this there is no need for disambiguation. It would be like re-naming Law & Order: Special Victims Unit to Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (U.S. TV series) just because Law & Order: UK exists.


 * Support the second per nom. The Doctor Who  (talk) 21:10, 12 July 2018 (UTC)


 * STRONGLY Oppose 1st; Neutral/weak-oppose 2nd. Since literally nothing else is called "Big Brother: Over the Top" and there's literally no international versions that have ever been called anything like that, I STRONGLY oppose the 1st move for unncessary disambiguation. However, on the second, I'm kinda neutral on it - pretty sure it may have actually been called "Gran Hermano USA" in many sources? But still, we should CREATE REDIRECTS no matter what happens. Paintspot Infez (talk) 22:27, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose 1st / Support 2nd  - As others already said, the first does not need any disambiguation as no other country produced a version of that show. The 2nd one, using the references used in the article itself, it seems the name was indeed just Gran Hermano and per WP:NCTV the disambiguation should be the proposed version. --Gonnym (talk) 19:59, 21 July 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.