Talk:Bill Withers

Inspiration, Content, and Authorship of Songs
What on earth is the last sentence talking about? Who in his right mind would sing Use Me in a church? The song isn't about uniting people; it's about emotional masochism in pursuit of sex. Is there some other song that the writer was thinking of? (Lean on Me, of course, makes perfect sense in this context.) --Dgilman 01:40, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * This: "It is interesting to note that "Lean on Me" was actually inspired by the church hymns Withers listened to when he was growing up in Slab Fork", contradicts this, on Lean on Me (song): "The song was written by Paul Hill, a college student at St. John's Lutheran College in Winfield, Kansas." Anyone got a source on who actually wrote the song? --Anon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.202.162.8 (talk) 05:57, 31 January 2007
 * Yeah, I noticed this too. Someone needs to clear it up. --Raph89 15:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I know his son, Todd. In fact, I'll probably be eating with him tonight.  I could just ask.  Can you do that for Wikipedia? 157.182.29.249 (talk) 18:42, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Lockheed/Boeing
Since when did Lockheed assemble Boeing 747s? The cited source simply state he assembled toilets for jumbo jets. Nothing about Boeing or Lockheeds... --mristroph 5 December 2007
 * The stringent requirements imposed by an aircraft's function of flying and the relative irrelevance of what's inside mean that the fates of airliner-sized planes will inevitably be as polymorphic as those of A4 or 8½×11 sheets of paper, which come from very few companies but become pictures or letters or adds, in many scripts, and in black and white or red and white or full color. In addition to building (exclusively?) military aircraft that it designed, Lockheed was probably, for instance, the prime contractor for most or all of the AWACS aircraft, most or all of which are packed into airframes developed for sale primarily to the passenger airline and air-freight industries. (See that article for pictures of AWACS with either "737" or "767" in their names.) It would be surprising if, in filling "jumbo jet" tin cans with electronics likely to dwarf the cost of a commercial airliner, Lockheed would not meet the need for toilet facilities by (possibly) hiring people, or (more likely) subcontracting companies, to "assemble" them (the heads, not the planes) "for Lockheed". --Jerzy•t 17:49, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

POV / Sources
I have added POV and Cite-Sources banners to this article for the following reasons:

-This article displays not only biographical facts but also motivations (he refused to give up his job at Ford because of his belief) without citing sources. This is to be avoided in all articles as per Wikipedia guidelines but especially in biographical articles where it may be construed as libel.

-This article uses very charged words and phrases to describe Mr. Withers (one of the best live albums to be released during the 1970s; one of the most significant and respected singer/songwriters of the 20th Century). These type of statements are merely the opinion of the writer and are not verifiable.

Âme Errante 15:07, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Relationship
His relationship with Brett Maslin is referred to in the "Awards and recognition" section. This would assume that the reader knows who this Maslin person is and what kind of relationship (romantic or professional?). If it is of the romantic nature, it should be a "trivia" reference. If professional, the writer should further expound on his /her (?)  role in Mr. Withers' life. 17:44, 30 April 2007 (UTC) Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.82.105.98 17:44, 30 April  & 18:23, 2 May  2007
 * The IP, at 16:43, 27 March 2008, decided that the phrase
 * his/her (?)
 * should be changed to falsely make it appear to have been contributed in the form of
 * his (?)
 * at 17:44, 30 April 2007, without acknowledging that 2 IPs had roles 11 months apart.
 * (Specifically, the real situation was that it started as "his", the original editor changed it to "his/her (?)" two days later, and eventual the forger changed it to their own third version.) --Jerzy•t 18:49, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The Maslin ref was added at 03:45, 27 April 2007 by -- whose sole other contrib, a few weeks later -- was more clearly vandalism, and removed as vand at 11:03, 8 May 2007 by . --Jerzy•t 18:49, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Popularity
I personally have enjoyed his songs. "Lovely Day" is striking for his being able to hold that note so long, but I digress. The statement about his popularity increasing as a result of the use of his songs in commercials seems subjective. His songs may be more "visible," but to say that his popularity has increased seems more "opinional" in nature.65.82.105.98 17:53, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Dead link

 * "My brush with greatness and I didn't even know it...", a blog entry with recent photos of Withers and his band —Preceding unsigned comment added by John Abbe (talk • contribs) 09:46, 1 July 2007

Legacy section
Strongly disagree with the section on covers and sampling being labeled "trivial at best". It's fair that the list of covers of "Ain't No Sunshine" and "Use Me" be moved to the song articles (they are actually already well-covered there), but removing the section entirely slights Withers's legacy as a songwriter and an influence on later generations. Likewise, his music has been used as a substrate for hip-hop songs so often and so prominently that it is entirely germane to document the profound sampling legacy of his music. An at least partial restore of this section is in order. Chubbles (talk) 17:54, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * If you agree that the list of cover songs/samples can easily be included in the respective song articles, what else is left to include from that section? All it seems to be is a list of people who covered or sampled his songs, there's no mention of his legacy, influence on later generations or anything of that nature in that section. There's also no slight to Withers because his many accomplishments and honors are all discussed in the article. The article also includes mentions of notable cover versions/samples of his songs that either charted well or won an award. The only thing that I can see that should be restored from that section is the mention of Al Jarreau's tribute album.  Pinkadelica ♣  19:13, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * A few of the songs have articles which have lists of covers; not all, by far. The lists are demonstrations of his legacy, and the fact that the article may have a brief prose overview of his awards and honors doesn't replace the significant amount of information lost in that mass cut. I don't have a problem with moving to song articles what makes sense to move there, but not all of this makes sense to move, and cutting it all out vastly impoverishes the article and robs it of a great deal of encyclopedic information. Chubbles (talk) 01:13, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Samples
Several Withers' hits were sampled and incorporated into equally successful 90s hip-hop hits. This was the portal to Withers for many 90s kids, myself included. It's a tremendous part of his career, how is that not lead worthy? Hearfourmewesique (talk) 00:07, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Again, your argument is based solely on your opinion which should hold no weight. Your statements "equally successful", "This was the portal", and "tremendous part of his career" are all subjective statements that are not corroborated. I'm not saying you are wrong - all I'm trying to tell you is put a little work in and "prove it". The burden isn't on me...
 * See thread below as discussion starter for "the group".
 * Ckruschke (talk) 15:54, 29 December 2011 (UTC)Ckruschke

Change To Lead
Editor Hearfourmewesique would like to make the following change to the page lead:

FROM: William Harrison "Bill" Withers, Jr. (born July 4, 1938) is an American singer-songwriter and musician who performed and recorded from 1970 until 1985. He is well known for songs like "Lean on Me", "Ain't No Sunshine", "Use Me", "Just the Two of Us", "Lovely Day", and "Grandma's Hands."

TO: William Harrison "Bill" Withers, Jr. (born July 4, 1938) is an American singer-songwriter and musician who performed and recorded from 1970 until 1985. He is well known for songs like "Lean on Me", "Ain't No Sunshine", "Use Me", "Just the Two of Us", "Lovely Day", and "Grandma's Hands", some of which were sampled later to create hip hop hits.

The editor can speak for himself, but he is of the opinion that "this is how 90's children know Bill Withers". I'm slightly older than that, so I have no opinion on the validity of this statement.

However, this change appears to have several problems notably 1) it smacks of an opinion and thus is non-NPOV/original research, 2) it is vague with no singers/songs listed, 3) it is unsourced, and 4) the page is about Withers not someone else (and thus begs the question of "so what?"). My feeling is that if the editor's statement that there are several hits out there that sampled Withers' music, it would be better to create a separate section further down the page with a list of singer/songwriters who used his music to chart singles. Another option is for the editor to instead insert this info into each of the individual songs' Wiki pages since it might be more relevant. A third option is to keep this text (or a modified version thereof) in the lead.

Therefore we are requesting opinion from the group about the change and the best place to put it. Thanks - Ckruschke (talk) 15:48, 29 December 2011 (UTC)Ckruschke
 * Let me answer that one by one:
 * Where is the opinion in a factual statement that some of Withers' song samples were used in others' hits?
 * Here's a "small" list of 119 songs:


 * Ain't No Sunshine (1971) was sampled in
 * Thunderclap by Augustus Pablo (1979)
 * Suzanne by VOF De Kunst (1983)
 * This Beat Be Smooth (Remix) by Toddy Tee (1989)
 * Soulja's Story by 2Pac (1991)
 * Get Bizzy by Big Daddy Kane (1991)
 * No Sunshine by Kid Frost (1992)
 * Wishing on a Star (12'' Mix) by The Cover Girls (1992)
 * Feeling the Highs by Madstyle (1993)
 * Purse Snatchaz by Onyx (1995)
 * Black Chick White Guy by Kid Rock (1996)
 * Ain't No Sunshine by Demastas (1998)
 * Chwile Ulotne by Paktofonika (2000)
 * Nutmeg by Ghostface Killah feat. RZA (2000)
 * Ja Sam Taj by Ding Dong (2000)
 * My Life by Juvenile feat. TQ (2001)
 * No Sunshine by DMX (2001)
 * Grey Skies by Raw Produce (2003)
 * Anytime She Goes Away by Bachelors of Science (2007)
 * Ain't No Sunshine by Theophilus London (2009)
 * Gotta Get Paid by Smoke DZA (2011)
 * I Know by Irma (2011)


 * Grandma's Hands (1971) was sampled in
 * Cehenneme Hoşgeldin by Karakan (1994)
 * No Diggity by Blackstreet feat. Dr. Dre and Queen Pen (1996)


 * Moanin' and Groanin' (1971) was sampled in
 * Morals by UMC's (1991)


 * Kissing My Love (1972) was sampled in
 * Straight Out the Jungle by Jungle Brothers (1988)
 * Kissing My Love (1972) was sampled in
 * Education of a Black Man by Schoolly D (1989)
 * Tribal Jam by X-Clan (1990)
 * In the Ghetto by Eric B. & Rakim (1990)
 * A Minute to Pray and a Second to Die by Scarface (1991)
 * Each One Teach One by Poor Righteous Teachers (1991)
 * Let Me Ride by Dr. Dre (1992)
 * Ahmet Gündüz by Fresh Familee (1993)
 * Track 1 by DJ Q-Bert (1994)
 * Senti Come Suona by Sangue Misto (1994)
 * Romper Room by Juggaknots (1996)
 * Rhyme Training by Mathematik (1999)
 * Cold Cutz by Cold Cutz Crew (1999)
 * Product Placement (Side 1) by DJ Shadow and Cut Chemist (2001)
 * Pulse by Damu the Fudgemunk (2008)
 * Fallin' by Asher Roth (2009)
 * Wonka Beat #4 by Damu the Fudgemunk (2010)


 * Lean on Me (1972) was sampled in
 * Convention '72 by The Delegates (1972)
 * Rap Summary (Lean on Me) by Big Daddy Kane (1988)
 * Dreamland by Wayne Wonder and Frisco Kid (1996)
 * Garbage Pail Kids by Benefit (2002)


 * Lonely Town, Lonely Street (1972) was sampled in
 * It Ain't by Geto Boys (1993)


 * Use Me (1972) was sampled in
 * Use Me Up by UGK (1992)
 * Barrioism by Funky Aztecs (1992)
 * Daily Routine by The Click (1995)
 * Still Dreaming by Nas feat. Kanye West and Chrisette Michele (2006)
 * I Need Love by Jennifer Lopez (2007)


 * Who Is He (And What Is He to You)? (1972) was sampled in
 * I Got Played by Yo-Yo (1991)
 * Dirty Cop Named Harry by Hard Knocks (1992)
 * The Wrong Come Up by L.V. feat. Evil Side G's (1996)
 * If They Move Kill 'Em by Primal Scream (1997)
 * Horse & Carriage by Cam'ron feat. Mase (1998)
 * Ose vs El Chojin-Dos Pesos Pesados by 955, Ose and El Chojin (2003)
 * Trippin Me Out (Audiojack Remix) by Pornobreaks (2007)
 * Arm Piece by Pusha T feat. Pharrell (2010)
 * Who Is He by White on Rice (2011)


 * I Can't Write Left Handed (1973) was sampled in
 * Demons by Fatboy Slim feat. Macy Gray (2000)


 * For My Friend (1973) was sampled in
 * Sun Salutations by Micranots (2000)


 * Let Me in Your Life (1973) was sampled in
 * Good Lord by Brother Ali (2009)


 * Can We Pretend (1974) was sampled in
 * Intro by Scarface (1993)
 * Innersoul by Lootpack (2004)


 * Make a Smile for Me (1974) was sampled in
 * Blackrain by Citizen Kane (1996)
 * Treasure Hunt by Panacea (2008)
 * Don't You Want to Stay (1975) was sampled in
 * Romeo and Juliet by Biz Markie (1991)
 * The Future by Joe Budden (2005)
 * Ghetto by Fed-X (2006)
 * What the Future Holds by OuterSpace (2008)
 * Last Words by Tech N9ne (2008)
 * I Do This by Kendrick Lamar feat. Jay Rock (2009)


 * Hello Like Before (1975) was sampled in
 * Bridging the Gaps by Black Eyed Peas (2000)
 * Back 2 the Way It Was by Xzibit (2004)


 * I Wish You Well (1975) was sampled in
 * Loretta Young Silks by Sneaker Pimps (2002)


 * Let Me Be the One You Need (1977) was sampled in
 * In Time My Brother by Ayatollah (2008)


 * Lovely Day (1977) was sampled in
 * It's Gonna Be a Lovely Day by S.O.U.L.S.Y.S.T.E.M. and Michelle Visage (1992)
 * Lovely Daze by DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince (1998)
 * Players Holiday by T.W.D.Y. (1999)
 * Minute Man by Harlem World feat. Nauty (1999)
 * Sunshine by Twista feat. Anthony Hamilton (2004)
 * Take a Picture by Swizz Beatz (2007)


 * Love (1978) was sampled in
 * Keep It Thoro (9th Wonder Remix) by Prodigy (2003)


 * Rosie (1978) was sampled in
 * Roses by Kanye West (2005)


 * Soul Shadows (1980) was sampled in
 * Papa'z Song by 2Pac feat. Wycked and Poppi (1993)
 * Jungle Boogie (Plus Que Ça!) by Kohndo (2000)
 * Can I Get a Dollar by Masta Ace (2001)
 * Stand a Chance by Damian Marley feat. Yami Bolo and Treach (2001)
 * Il Mio Mondo by Mondo Marcio (2006)
 * Standing by the Window by Precha and Baby J (2007)


 * Just the Two of Us (1981) was sampled in
 * Scratch Monopoly by T La Rock (1987)
 * No Bones in Ice Cream by Nice & Smooth (1990)
 * Silenzio by Sottotono (1994)
 * Suckas (Sucka DJ Dis) by DJ Babu (1995)
 * Banana by Patra (1995)
 * Outta Hand by Troopa Deal (1995)
 * Freaky Flow Remix by Daddy Lord C and La Cliqua (1995)
 * Wrekonize (Remix) by Smif-N-Wessun (1995)
 * Throw Your Hands in the Air by Cypress Hill feat. Erick Sermon, MC Eiht and Redman (1995)
 * Keep It Real by Ram Squad (1996)
 * Peace Akki by Al' Tariq (1996)
 * Just the Two of Us by Eminem (1997)
 * El Juego Verdadero by Tiro De Gracia (1997)
 * Show Da World (Blowin Up) by Werd of Mouph (1997)
 * The Anthem by Funkdoobiest (1997)
 * Time Out by Mad Mike feat. Camrutti and K2 (1997)
 * Just the Two of Us by Will Smith (1997)
 * Just a Few of Us by Luciano Crime Family (1998)
 * Just the Three of Us by Dr. Oop feat. People Under the Stairs (1998)
 * In Loco Parentis by Makiza (1999)
 * Blak Luv by Jeru the Damaja (1999)
 * La Rosa De Los Vientos by Makiza (1999)
 * Cause I Had To by 2Pac (2003)
 * When the Lord Comes by Bone Thugs-N-Harmony feat. K-Mont and Lareece (2006)
 * Bara Du Och Jag by Broshan and Chrippe (2010)
 * Pretty Girl Rock by Keri Hilson (2010)
 * Samo Muzika by Sdem (2011)


 * Oh Yeah! (1985) was sampled in
 * Your Delight by Toy Club (2002)


 * Digging for sources is something anyone can do, I can do it but I am also inviting anyone here to help.
 * So many other artists using Withers' music as a basis for their own is a sign of his legacy and vast impact on generations that did not grow up listening to his music, therefore a lede worthy statement. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 18:26, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not a lead-worthy until it's in the article itself. Quoting from WP:LEAD, "Significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article." In other words, add a section to the article (properly sourced) that explicitly verifies that Withers is famous in part due to the sampling of his music by hip-hop artists. Until then, keep it out of the lead. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:25, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

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Death date
Multiple articles are saying that he died on March 30.

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/trending/bill-withers-lean-me-aint-no-sunshine-singer-dies-81/7WXSYRTPARB5PBAMHOYAJYKEOI/

https://apnews.com/e19138ee60f29a319e45bcfba3e39331?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter MikaelaArsenault (talk) 14:41, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Quite so. I've pointed this out to the editor who keeps changing it to April 3 - which was the date it was announced.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:44, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for doing that. MikaelaArsenault (talk) 15:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2020
This honor should be added under the Honors section: Bill Withers received an honorary doctorate in music from West Virginia University at the 2017 College of Creative Arts commencement ceremony. 2601:545:C700:8C30:694A:C36F:8AF6:D964 (talk) 14:41, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Now added. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:19, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2020
His date of death says April 3,2020 which is wrong. He died March 30. The copy in the content does say March 30 which is right. 2001:569:BC50:7400:39D8:4075:4E5:4472 (talk) 14:44, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Now corrected. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:51, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2020
Change "William Harrison Withers Jr. (born July 4, 1938)[1] is an American former singer-songwriter and musician who performed and recorded from 1970 until 1985" to ""William Harrison Withers Jr. (born July 4, 1938)[1] was an American former singer-songwriter and musician who performed and recorded from 1970 until 1985"" 2A00:23C4:BB8F:2A00:14A3:7E3:2527:21F9 (talk) 15:05, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * That change was made some time ago. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:20, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2020
July 4, 1938 - April 3, 2020 was an American...... 50.29.237.203 (talk) 15:19, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * No, he died on March 30 - check your sources. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:23, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

death
sadly someone need to edit the beginning of this article 2A01:CB08:8BE:AA00:55A3:2C0D:E85C:FAA9 (talk) 15:22, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:07, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2020
Died March 30 2020  2601:845:8100:3A0:150A:FE4F:CF0:C25A (talk) 15:21, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Done. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:23, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2020
Bill Withers is reported to have died. Jporgan (talk) 17:56, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, we know. Try refreshing your browser.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

last album
Why isn't there a page about the last album ??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.238.226.27 (talk) 17:57, 4 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Did it chart?Telecine Guy (talk) 18:56, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 May 2020
Prefer to change "Withers is interred in the Forest Lawn Memorial Park (Hollywood Hills)." to "Withers is interred in Los Angeles." GWMBm1997 (talk) 00:32, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. GoingBatty (talk) 01:16, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I know we can't use findagrave.com, but this seems quite convincing? It's supported by Daily Mail, but of course we can't use that either. GWMBm1997, do you have evidence that he's buried elsewhere in Los Angeles? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:04, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Years active should begin 1967
Was going to fix it but the article is protected for some reason. But his first release was 1967, in fact one could argue that his career began in 1965. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.72.207.36 (talk) 23:22, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

source?
i read online that he was inspired to write "aint no sunshine" in part due to the movie "the days of wine and roses"

At the time of the song’s recording, Withers was working at a factory making toilet seats for Boeing 747 planes and he was inspired to write the song after watching the film Days of Wine and Roses.

"Sometimes you miss things that weren’t particularly good for you. It’s just something that crossed my mind from watching that movie, and probably something else that happened in my life that I’m not aware of."

Bill Withers finding a source for this, and this quote, would add to article. i know, why dont i do it myself. im sort of done with editing for now. sorry, just not in that space anymore. 50.193.19.66 (talk) 18:00, 20 September 2022 (UTC)