Talk:Black conservatism

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Untitled
I think most blacks would disagree that they are "left-wing." The tendency to vote for Democratic candidates does not make one left-wing. Is this an informative article, or an editorial?? Kemet 21 Nov 2005.

Why is racial integration considered a linchpin of conservatism? It seems to produce a dissonance with individualism. I wouldn't expect us to support segregation, or be hostile to integration, but I just don't think it's necessary to promote it or even support it to be a black conservative. Juan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.28.181.62 (talk • contribs) 05:33, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

"I think most blacks would disagree that they are "left-wing." Oh, really? I'm a leftist black and most of us are leftist or at least centrist. Are you black? Didn't think so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kmcneil (talk • contribs) 06:45, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Is there decent evidence that black conservatism is "rising?"

LegCircus 19:31, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Excuse me...
Not to "pull the 'Friend card'", but I have black Republican friends who would spit in your face if you called them a Democrat. So it's opinionated just like Politics are. What you need to understand is that they are educated people out there, and the color of thier skin isn't a factor. For all you know a Black person could have written all this and you'd have no idea, you just assume it was a racist, and that my friends is called a Stereotype, here's an example: "This page is constantly being vandalized, and I'd expect nothing less from angry Librals.", of course, thats just an example sentence... take no offense. SakuraAvalon86 (talk) 20:22, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You have friends who would assault me for exercising my First Amendment rights? Sounds very Republican to me; I guess the purpose of this message is that I agree with you! LOL! 99.231.241.146 (talk) 15:58, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Morgan Freeman
Why is Morgan Freeman on this list? He donates money to some liberal Democrat party people according to NEWSMEAT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.139.58.246 (talk • contribs) 07:37, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Rewriting
Just like there is no blanket position with black liberals, there is certainly no blanket position with black conservatives. The original writer of this piece seems to take the position that black conservatives, as a group, are monolithic. Most black conservatives that I know would take issue with that (as do I). Mhking 18:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Famous Black Republicans
I'm not entirely sure how we can neutrally distinguish these two situations, but it is clear that there is a significant difference between being a Reconstruction-era black Republican and being a black Republican today.

Reconstruction-era black republicans were not "conservatives", at least not by any useful standard of the time. They certainly weren't about to become southern Democrats! It's highly misleading to compare Joseph Rainey to Condoleeza Rice. --Saforrest 23:14, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Jackie Robinson
According to Great Time Coming : The Life Of Jackie Robinson From Baseball to Birmingham, Robinson supported multiple Republican candidates including both Goldwater and Nixon. Mhking 01:44, 22 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The problem with saying Jackie Robinson is a black conservative is this idea that Democrat equals liberal. The Democratic party when Robinson was growing up were the remnants of the Democratic party of the late 1800's (i.e., the South) so Democrat did not equal liberal, Democrats equaled racist, so I would question the validity of trying to classify who and who isn't a black conservative.


 * Inner City Blues 18:15, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Robinson was a Rockefeller Republican. Although he remained a Republican until his death, he was quite disappointed in Nixon's administration, and did not vote for Nixon in 1972. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.116.245.238 (talk) 05:10, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

Lionel Hampton?
It seems I recall he was a strong Nixon and Ford supporter, but that he was more of a Rockefeller Republican. If correct would he fit the entertainers section?--T. Anthony 11:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Michael King (Project 21)
Fair enough -- I haven't been on Fox News since last summer (had to back off with going to work for a television station), and I have scaled back my writing output. I have also put my blog on hold for the moment (though I will probably put some links and other "minor stuff" online there soon). My "official" bio (FWIW) is at http://www.11alive.com/whatson/whatson_article.aspx?storyid=76848 --Mhking 15:06, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Black Republicans on Black conservatives page
I would question the placement of Black Republicans on a page about Black conservatism as it seems to equate the two. Being a Black Republican doest not mean the person is a Black conservative, especially when you talk about people in the late 19th century and early 20th century. We have to remember that the Democratic party was the South, so most Blacks by default chose to be Republican. The shift towards the Democrats started under Roosevelt and after the 1960's it would be disingenuous to say that Republicans of more recent times are even comparable to the progressives of the early 20th century or the party in the post-Civil War era.

I suggest that Black Republicans, or the history of Black Republicanism be given a new page or removed from the Black conservatives page. We have to remember that parties are fluid and the placement of this list on the page suggests an ideology that has remained the same for decades.

Inner City Blues 18:26, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Republicans and conservatives are not necessarily synonyms. Certainly not in the nineteenth century. On a different issue is James Meredith mentioned in this article? He sounds like he'd fit.--T. Anthony 16:20, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Also this article mostly seems to be devoted to explaining why black conservatives are seen as wrong and bad for the black community with a tendency to indicate "because they most likely are wrong and bad for their community."--T. Anthony 16:28, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. "Black Republican" does not equal "Black conservative". Listing Frederick Douglass in an article on Black conservatism is totally rediculous. Kaldari 06:45, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Frank Pembleton
I think I know where this came from, but I'm a fan of the show and I don't think it's accurate to see him as a conservative. He has conservative views on many crime-related issues, but he is also strongly progressive/liberal/other in non-crime areas. In the first 2 seasons especially he's depicted as intense about racial concerns and implies Lt. Gee is a sell-out. He chides Bayliss for being prudish and annoys Beau by implying he's a racist. In a Season 4 episode he makes a mocking reference about becoming a Republican because they're cold and uncaring. Anyway unless there's something I'm missing I hope this removal is acceptable.--T. Anthony 08:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Ummm
Does it seem to anyone else this article has a great many problems? It seems like it's trying to deal with one bias with a counter-bias and comes out a bit confused. Also on reflection much of it seems to see the black community as just liberal majority versus conservative minority, which seems a bit exaggerated. In life and judging by commentary I think a great many, possibly as much or more than a third, of African Americans deem themselves independent or moderate with some just apolitical. The vast majority votes Democrat, but I'm not sure that means the vast majority is "liberal" in the US sense. On many social issues the African American community comes out moderately conservative judging by polls. However we have a two party system in the US so if you dislike the Republicans (and I think it's fair to say most African-Americans do) you vote Democrat, but that doesn't mean you per se identify as liberal or Left.--T. Anthony 17:01, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Article needs work
Parts of this article do not read like an encyclopedia, but like an opinion column. I removed the most egregious section, but others approach it in terms of stating opinion as fact, using first-person narration, and failing to cite sources, especially for controvertial statements. I added a tag at the top to draw attention to this problem. Argyrios 01:38, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Black conservatives are still Democrats
This article is very biased, I feel that it is racist, probably original research or from very bad sources.

Majority of blacks do not identify with the left on many of the issues on this site. First off, the way this site defines the left is incorrect. But mainly, the majority on blacks have conservative views on social issues. To claim otherwise is total ignorance and racist. 75.2.250.145 04:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * When I edited I tried to differentiate a bit. From what I can tell 19-28% of the black population self-describes as "conservative" to a moderate or strong degree. However going by the partisan numbers I know of this means up to half, or maybe more, of the "Black conservatives" are Democrats. Likewise to say the black population is mostly Left, as this once did, is almost certainly misleading. A great deal of blacks are moderate or politically mixed/independent. (If the US had a viable Christian Democratic Party, or a Christian socialism party, I think it's possible it could do well in the black community)--T. Anthony 09:40, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * What nonsense. Of course most of us are on the left. It's just a handful of idiots who are conservative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kmcneil (talk • contribs) 06:45, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup
A cleanup tag has been added to this article. It contains confusing generalizations and doesn't cite sources. (68.98.52.155 03:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC))

Zora Neale Hurston
Reading on her I wonder if she should be mentioned. In some ways I think calling her politics "conservative" is a bit misleading. She opposed integration largely based on her support of the Universal Negro Improvement Association and African Communities League and black nationalism. For example her letter opposing Brown largely seems to indicate she deems blacks to be a separate culture that does not need to associate with white America and that integration was based on the idea blacks needed "white mares" to uplift them. However she did support Robert Taft and was staunchly anti-communist. What do you think?--T. Anthony 09:25, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

It seems pretty safe to say that anyone who supported Robert Taft (in the extremely liberal political climate of the time, at least among intellectuals) would not mind being called a conservative. -Larry Siegel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.191.143.129 (talk • contribs) 21:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Judging by her opposition to the New Deal and her support for Robert Taft I would think she is a conservative.Jordalus (talk) 18:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

"Conservative" vs. "Republican"
Several have noted that African-Americans hold some conservative views, yet vote Democrat. If this is true, would it be fair to say that they vote over mostly economic issues? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.72.215.225 (talk • contribs) 17:33, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I suppose, but a lot actually vote Democrat because it's a cultural/traditional thing. I don't mean to offend anyone here, but it's true. Just like a lot of people vote however their parents voted, blacks often times tend to vote Democrat because it's the "black" thing to do. And don't in any way make a comment about me being racist. I'm only suggesting that it can sometimes be the case. Of course there are intelligent, well-informed blacks that do vote on the issues. - Brad —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kgj08 (talk • contribs) 05:26, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

"Fiddy"?
50 Cent a conservative? Huh? I vaguely remember him making some Pro-Bush statement to spite Kanye West, but that's it. By those standards, you could throw Eazy-E on there since he showed up at a GOP fundraiser once. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.95.209 (talk • contribs) 09:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah I read the 50 Cent article and he basically only said George Bush didn't cause people to die in Katrina. 76.86.0.31 —The preceding  signed but undated.

Actually 50 cent was interviewed on television where he aid he was a Republican and that he wasnt voting for Obama. I'm sure a quick google search will find you to it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.87.99.55 (talk) 14:38, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Criticisms and mis-conceptions of Black conservatism: A historical context
This section really needs to go. I have no clue what purpose it serves. The last part about Uncle Tom seems to pass off all black conservatives as either a) "dumb Christians" or b) arrogant people that are trying to use the Republican party to advance their own status, even if it means that they hurt other blacks in the process. I understand that the article doesn't necessarily endorse the insult "Uncle Tom". But why put it in. There's a few faulty assumptions it also makes. It assumes that conservatism hurts black people as a whole and that liberalism helps black people. There are conservatives (black and white) that believe that liberal views on issues truly hurt blacks (affirmative action, welfare, high taxes, etc.) This may sound ridiculous... but there are actually black people that don't like "Reverend" Al Sharpton (!!)

Like I said, the whole theme of the article makes it sound as though black conservatives are just trying to lift themselves up and hurt other blacks in the process. It really needs to go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kgj08 (talk • contribs) 23:31, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for Fixing This Article
I would sincerely like to thank whoever fixed this article. When I visited it two years ago, it seemed very one-sided, basically claiming that all black conservatives were "Uncle Toms" and other unfair allegations. 204.84.255.170 (talk) 00:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)Cato
 * Yeah man, I removed that entire section. That was ludicrous.  I removed it a long time ago and nobody has responded to anything I said on the talk page.  Guess it's okay ha. -Brad Kgj08 (talk) 06:08, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Worldwide View
This article is very American-orientated, and needs to present a more worldwide veiw. Lord Cornwallis (talk) 18:10, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Can I suggest the idea of splitting this article and having black conservatism as a parent article, and a Black conservatism in the United States to cover the subject in that country? Black conservatism is a worldwide phenomenum( in N.America, S.America, Africa and Europe at least). This article is currently too focused on just the US. Lord Cornwallis (talk) 05:33, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I have now split off the sections relating only to the United States into its own Black conservatism in the United States article.Lord Cornwallis (talk) 03:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

List of people needs to list a source
I marked all of the unsourced people in the "Notable black conservatives in the United States" with a tag. Disappointingly, this was every person but one, who was the only person without her own WP article! I did not tag the politicians or pundits, but the others absolutely need a reliable source, no matter how obvious it is. Rgrds. --Tombstone (talk) 11:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Somewhat biased
Parts of this article sound like speeches rather than an encyclopedia article, such as "The Black Conservative movement is very critical of the Democratic Party for spreading leftism amongst the black population to such an extent that Afro Americans today lack self respect, family values and constantly live in the mentality of victimhood." This is very one-sided opinion that serves no real informational purpose. It needs to be modified to sound less like a diatribe and more like an article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drphillips (talk • contribs) 03:20, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Article Critique
This article introduces the topic of black conservatism in multiple cultures, but then does not elaborate on their development in those countries. For example, the article refers to black conservatism in Africa but only includes two lines and does not show how the religious backgrounds they refer to in Nigeria impacts their different political ideas. This is especially important given the wide variety of religious backgrounds in Nigeria, all of which have different values. Not to mention the rest of the countries in Africa that went completely unmentioned. I also found that the piece has not been updated to include much data from the 2000's. There were a few specific examples of contemporary black conservatives in the United States, but outside of that the article did not include too many references to developments in the 2000's or even refer to the development of black conservatism through time. Black conservatism has not stayed stagnant over the years so it would be appropriate to discuss how it has developed, how the number of black conservatives has changed, as well as what causes black individuals to support conservative ideas when they have historically been more to the left in the United States, as stated in this article. I would like to see changes made to reflect all of that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trmosley (talk • contribs) 06:38, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Trmosley (talk) 14:36, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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This article is still awful
This can't be salvaged, someone needs to start over, preferably a black conservative. The "woke" politics of the author are dead obvious. How does an article about black conservatism mention Kanye West but not prominent black conservatives like Clarence Thomas?? Thomas Sowell?? This article is an embarrassment to wikipedia.