Talk:Blood quantum laws/Archive 1

Broken Link
Native Descendency and Blood Quantums

Dawes Act / Genocide
The interpretation of the "Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide" Article 2, Item C would include the intent behind the Dawes Act, which was designed to remove land from the Native Americans, as well to force the deterioration of the communal life-style of Native societies, and impose Western-oriented values. The act also did not proved enough land to make them economically viable, and caused a large number of Native Americans to become landless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hyrcan (talk • contribs) 21:33, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

deleting mention of a proposal
I've just now removed:

==Genetic DNA testing==

Project DNA: Diaspora of Native America (see Sally Larsen) proposes using genetic testing to consolidate the Diaspora of Native America as a self-determined entity.

The article on Larsen explains that she's not a legislator, an anthropologist or a geneticist but instead is an artist. Artists are of course free to make proposals as anybody else, but this artist is not a particularly prominent one and the article about her cites no coverage in any political or academic publication for, or any mass media coverage of, this proposal. (It almost appears as if Larsen is using Wikipedia to gain publicity for her ideas.)

I recently made a similar deletion in Diaspora for the same reason; you can read about it here. -- Hoary (talk) 01:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

A cohesive list of what tribes and what percentage for which legal benefits?
I'm sure something can be ascertained from U.S. law in this regard: All the recognized tribes which are greater monies, certain privileges and rights beyond regular U.S. citizens and what percent of what tribe one needs to be to acquire them. Nagelfar (talk) 21:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

How so I get started Suzzieq66 (talk) 00:22, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Issues section
Needs to be coherent. Note contradiction:

"Therefore, critics argue, Quantum Blood law is racist as it will continue to propel and compound the legal and statistical extinction of the American race."

But the very next paragraph concludes:

"Tribes can adopt policies that while racist provide for useful control over population size and immediate resource access."

So some forms of racism are better than others? Or "our" racism is ok, but "yours" is not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Martindo (talk • contribs) 22:00, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree - this is an issue that plays both ways, such as the controversy about the Cherokee excluding the Cherokee Freedmen after a century. Both sides need coverage. Today tribes establish their own membership rules and sometimes have "blood committees" to establish membership. Inclusive, exclusive - it's all about who belongs.--Parkwells (talk) 17:22, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

What about Canadians
Does anyone have any information about such laws in Canada? 74.253.4.163 (talk) 18:50, 24 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.23.80.71 (talk)
 * I have some and will add when I have a chance. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:25, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of Issues section
I have deleted the issues section, which makes pretty strong claims. There are references in the article, but no idea of which claims are backed up by references. This has been the case since August 2008 at least. Please add it back in if you can - but with the references in place, thanks! BananaFiend (talk) 14:05, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Why don't the refs tag work?
I can't see the problem. And yes, these laws are a factor in Canada as well, especially with the Mohawks of Kahnawake and the article will need to be expanded to reflect that. See Club Native Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:13, 8 September 2009 (UTC)


 * This is already so complex in the US; I think it would be difficult to have an article covering other nations' issues. Perhaps they can be linked under a broader category, or it will become so large and unwieldy as to be meaningless.--Parkwells (talk) 18:55, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Edit for accuracy
Some editors have made serious errors and cited sources while making mistakes of fact and interpretation from the sources. For instance, someone blamed the US government for late 20th century Seminole exclusion of black members from receiving revenues of settlement of land claims. The source accurately holds the tribe responsible. In fact, the US government insisted by treaties following the Civil War that the Seminole and Cherokee, for instance, had to provide slaves and African American members with full tribal citizenship, as freedmen were receiving by amendments to the US Constitution. I'm editing content of the article to more accurately reflect the sources.--Parkwells (talk) 18:23, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Blood quantum mathematical accuracy in debate
What if the applicant whose great-grandmother is "full-blooded" (turns out to be 3/4th) and great-grandfather is one-quarter or 1/4th, what does that make their child, the applicant's grand-parent? Someone explains how it works in each individual case. Normally, a person who has a tribal member parent and another (non-tribal member) parent, the child is half (1/2), the child marries outside the tribe to have a grand-child classified 1/4 and the grandchild does the same, now the greatgrandchild is 1/8 and continues to have 1/16, 1/32 and 1/64 to further dilute the American Indian genetics with those outside the tribe or race. Anyone who is knowledgable in grade school math can find like a medium of 0.75 and 0.25= it seems to be 0.50, but to claim full-blooded should be 100 percent. The blood quantum laws varies by each American Indian tribe and nation, like the article claims and they should mentioned a few recognize partilineal lineage (i.e. the Cherokee was through the mother) was common before contact with European cultures. For example, the child is a male and he cannot pass it on when he marries a non-tribal woman and had a male nor female (grand)child, except the child is 1/2 and often can be "passing white" or chose to identify with the tribe to have the (grand)child pass on the tribal identification to the (greatgrandchild), but requires to marry in that tribe. + 71.102.11.193 (talk) 07:52, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The fractions listed in the article are the minimum blood quantum required by various tribes, so, for instance, if someone was something like 19/64th, that would fall above 1/4. -Uyvsdi (talk) 18:26, 12 July 2010 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Relative significance of distinguishing between different tribes
Under the heading "Issues with DNA ancestry testing", it states "However, Y-chromosome and mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA) testing looks only at "direct" line male and female ancestors and thus can fail to pick up many ancestors' heritage. Some critics thought the PBS series did not sufficiently explain the limitations of DNA testing for assessment of heritage.  More significantly, current DNA testing cannot distinguish among separate Native American tribes." (emphasis added). In what way is DNA testing's inability to distinguish among separate Native American tribes" in any way significant? The term "Native American" is widely accepted in the scientific community to apply to a discrete group of Asian peoples who migrated over Berengia to the Americas no more recently than about 8,000 years ago, when the land-bridge was washed-out.  That isolates the genetic stock of those people from admixture for the next nearly 8,000 years until Europeans arrived.  So the DNA markers for Native American are among the most specific and accurate of all ethnic groups.  To claim that it's "more significant" that DNA testing cannot (yet) distinguish between different tribes is absurd.  It's as insignificant as saying that it's problematic that DNA testing can't distinguish between whether a person of NW European ancestry is from Jutland or Groningen, two closely related haplogroups. Unless someone can justify why it's significant in this context that DNA testing can't distinguish between different tribes, this statement should be removed. Occam&#39;s Shaver (talk) 18:24, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
 * In the US, Native American status is through tribal enrollment. If you don't belong to a tribe, you are not legally Native American. You can test your DNA until the end of time, but that will not get you entre to a federally recognized Indian tribe. Yuchitown (talk) 22:28, 31 December 2015 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * In reference to the opening statement above, sometimes people hope that DNA testing will tell them what tribe they are descended from, if they have distant, partial Native American ancestry. That's why the statement was in there, to say that DNA testing cannot distinguish among the tribes. In addition, every tribe has its own membership rules, often related to documentation of direct descent from a person(s) registered on certain historic rolls, such as the Dawes Rolls in Indian Territory, or Durant Rolls in Michigan, plus a percentage of tribal or Native American ancestry. Some tribes are using DNA testing in contemporary practice, but only to prove a child is descended from a particular adult. (Can't remember which tribe I read this in reference to.) Parkwells (talk) 13:44, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Sac & Fox Tribe of the Mississippi in Iowa to prove paternity. Yuchitown (talk) 21:06, 1 January 2016 (UTC)Yuchitown

Fed QB
What is the QB required to receive federal benefits? Or does federal benefits depend on what one's tribe's QB is? Prsaucer1958 (talk) 22:10, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
 * By tribe. The fed doesn't magically shower 1/4-blood Indians with milk and honey, contrary to popular belief. Yuchitown (talk) 22:26, 31 December 2015 (UTC)Yuchitown

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