Talk:Bobbejaanland

Nice advertisement!
This article is just one big ad for the theme park. Ozdaren 09:59, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, the article strongly promotes the park and those involved. - Simeon87 20:20, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

This article is based on the park history article published in the academic “Folklife Chronicles”, magazine of the Folklife Federation Flanders) - yr. 14 - nr. 2 april-may-june 2006), connected to the KULeuven, without a disputed neutrality. (i am the author) I think one should not only question the content by labeling it with a POV, but also counter facts/claims by giving arguments and doing some effort. Is there reasonable doubt for some parts? Just say which ones and why some facts ar not true. I think it's more constructive to point these and reformulate where needed than just labeling. The ones of proof falls on the one who claims but also on the on who disputes. How can it promote the park and those involved if it is sold in 2004 and again in 2007 (cfr: 'Since the park was sold in 2004, the number of visitors decreased significantly')? It's about the history of the park, not the park today. Regards, Peeper 22:18, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, why does the article contain sentences like:


 * Not in the least, it stands out because of its totally unique identity, ... (no informative value)
 * The life of Bobbejaan is also a lucky bag of colourful anecdotes and two anecdotes (see further in this comment)


 * Also sentences and sections like the following have no informative value but simply praise those involved:


 * The key to succes was the mutual trust in this triumvirate and their pragmatic and powerful work ethic.
 * During the 43 years of the Schoepen-management, we can consider the founding father to be the artistic brain behind the park. His wife José (who is the oldest of sixteen children) was the commercial backbone, and her sister Louise set up a solid foundation with regard to accounting and finances. The key to succes was the mutual trust in this triumvirate and their pragmatic and powerful work ethic.


 * The article also stresses the popularity of the park three times (check other articles about amusement parks, like Warner Bros. Movie World or Disneyland Resort Paris which don't praise the park):


 * In 43 years Bobbejaanland became one of the most popular theme parks in Europe.
 * With its mix of informative fun, Bobbejaanland can rank as the maverick among European amusement parks
 * For Belgium, Bobbejaanland is considered to be the best. (Test-Aankoop magazine 477, June 2004)


 * As for other things that can improve the article, it really shouldn't contain things that relate to Bobbejaan's life but not to the park. Examples of these things are the beginning of the The artist dominates the entrepreneur section, the anecdotes in the  Attractions section and also the photo of him and his wife on the right. In closing, the article contains a significant number of laudative words that make this article feel like an advertisement. Also, please don't remove the POV-template while the neutrality is still disputed. - Simeon87 23:46, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry Simeon, but the POV-template was added before one argument was mentioned. Also sorry for my bad English, but I hope you get the point:

• ”The life of Bobbejaan is also a lucky bag of colourful anecdotes....” (source: 15/05/2004, De Standaard). There are a lot more of course, but are they “colourful”? In june 1980 the Wildwaterslide burned into flames short after the opening of the attraction. Or, in august 1982 half Belgium had a power cut-off, also the park, where thousands of people wanted their money back (VRT news, august 4th 1982). You want more?

• Citation: ”Not in the least, it stands out because of its totally unique identity” (speech Leo Tindemans, opening Revolution ride, june 2nd 1989) (Cfr: a family concern, unplanned and organicly grown out of an international music career of the artist, etc...)

• Also: "Compared to, for example, to Disneyland France this theme park is grown organicly from/out of an elementary essence/core”. (Prof. Etienne Vermeersch, 2006) (don’t know how to translate it correctly. (“Folklife Chronicles”, 2006) • Citation: “During the 43 years of the Schoepen-management, we can consider the founding father to be the artistic brain behind the park. His wife José (who is the oldest of sixteen children) was the commercial backbone, and her sister Louise set up a solid foundation with regard to accounting and finances. The key to succes was the mutual trust in this triumvirate and their pragmatic and powerful work ethic”. (“Folklife Chronicles”, 2006) and references in the speech of Leo Tindemans, opening Revolution ride, june 2nd 1989.

• One can also add that this triumvirate was known as hard but consequent business people. (“Less fun” De Morgen, 15-05-2004)

• No problem by deleting this one: “In 43 years Bobbejaanland became one of the most popular theme parks in Europe.”

• Citation and Source added: “With its mix of informative fun, Bobbejaanland can rank as a maverick among European amusement parks” (“Folklife Chronicles”, 2006)

• What’s the problem with this specified quote?: For Belgium, Bobbejaanland is considered to be the best. (Test-aankoop CVBA, Belgium (member of Euroconsumers SA) - magazine 477, June 2004) • The artist dominates the entrepreneur section, is more a part for Bobbejaan Schoepen, but I think it is relevant to tell here short that after the selling of the park, Bobbejaan focused again on his music career. Everybody who knows the history of the park is aware of the fact that the artist and the entrepreneur Bobbejaan Schoepen is impossible to devide. So that the story begins with music and ends with music, sound a bit romantic, but it’s an historical fact. After one can make a new title for the next generations? • Some of the anecdotes in the Attractions section are very relevant: the Nudie Car e.g. These cars are still in the park. • Also, his wife is always seen as the engine of the park. That’s what Bobbejaan himself also claims in interviews (“Uit het oog”, Mark Vanlombeeck, VRT-television interview, 1995 + “SCHOEPEN troef”: 14/02/2007 – interview Knack magazine)

If the article contains a significant number of laudative words that make this article feel like an advertisement, please feel free to change where needed. But using negative words/examples makes the content not especially more objective.

Please, be constructive with me and add the POV-template only if we keep disputing without to agree. This is under construction with good intentions and argumentation. Peeper 03:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * As for the POV-template: you removed it without waiting for a response to your first comment at this talk page. Anyway, I understand that you have sources for each of these quotes but that's not really the point. The problem is that the number of such laudative sentences and choice of words is significantly higher than in other articles about amusement parks. In other words, this article contains far more opinions than other articles. For example, compare it to the two articles I mentioned earlier: Warner Bros. Movie World and Disneyland Resort Paris. These articles give a neutral description while still indicating that the parks are popular. I can't find any overly positive sentence in the Disneyland Resort Paris article but the article still gives a good description of the park, the attractions and related activities. Same for Warner Bros. Movie World: apart from the word 'popular' in the first sentence, there are no sentences that praise the park.


 * You can source the sentences in the Bobbejaanland article but they don't contribute to the neutrality of the article. Pretty much all of the things you just provided sources for are opinions of other people: either the opinion of a magazine, things that have been said during an interview or the opinion of those involved. Like, why include quotes from a speech that was given in the park when opening a ride - of course such a speech wouldn't be neutral. If an opinion/quote doesn't increase the informative value of an article then it should be removed. In my opinion, that would mean most of the above quotes should be removed: the article should objectively state the history, the attractions and it should adequately depict the popularity of the park. Currently, the article is more an ode to the park and those involved (really, you may or may not agree but I'd recommend comparing it to various articles to see the differences). - Simeon87 12:25, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Peeper, how about you disclose on this talk page that you are Bobbejaan's son, like you do here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Grand_Ole_Opry#Bobbejaan_.28Bobby_John.29_at_the_Opry_1953 66.243.44.250 (talk) 01:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

This is an absolute spam about that park that is of no interest AT ALL. As a British, I am shocked by the Flemish behaviour to promote anything they have. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.184.132.6 (talk) 21:54, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

NPOV removed
I updated the article and removed the NPOV tag, please use or  for sentences, then detail issues here. - RoyBoy 00:04, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

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