Talk:Booting

External links add
Hello!

I want to add link to article. It's strict about topic (change boot order and boot from removable device). Also article is well written and has a lot of pictures. It's very close to article on link which already has "Change the Boot Order in BIOS", but I think it digs more deeply and give a lot of examples, therefore it's more useful.

Link: https://123qweasd.com/blog/tech/how-to-boot-from-flash-drive-ultimate-guide/

The FreeBSD Booting Process
Loading a kernel Determine the root filesystem Initialize user-land things Interesting combinations

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Keyvan amel (talk • contribs) 10:50, 7 July 2006‎

Definition of printed circuit board
In https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Booting&diff=1104676485&oldid=1104489231, 86.181.0.154 changed circuit board to circuit board with the comment A 'printed circuit board' is distinct from a 'circuit board'. No evidence that this board has any printed components on it.. In https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Booting&diff=1104698231&oldid=1104676485, I reverted the change with the comment Traces are visible on the board In https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Booting&diff=1105738573&oldid=1104961434, he reinstated the change with the comment Irrelevant. A printed 'circuit' board is once that contains parts of the circuit such as printed on resistors and inductors (though rarely capacitors.

This assertion conflicts with both Printed circuit board and with the historical usage shown in various dictionaries, e.g., "printed circuit -  computer  circuit  consisting  of  an  electronic  sub-assembly;  copper  conductors  are  laminated  on  an  insulating  board  or  card  and  circuit  components  are  inserted  into  holes  and  dip  soldered". Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 18:06, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * For example, the definition of "printed circuit board" in Maxim Integrated's glossary of EE terms speaks of a PCB as being "a non-conductive material with conductive lines printed or etched"; it mentions conductors, but not any other components such as resistors or inductors, being printed.
 * The "What is a PCB or Printed Circuit Board" page on the Eurocircuits Web site says:
 * PCB or Printed Circuit Board is the traditional name for the bare board of which you supply us with the layout data and which you use to mount your components on once we have delivered it to you.
 * A printed circuit board, or PCB, is used to mechanically support and electrically connect electronic components using conductive pathways, tracks or signal traces etched from copper sheets laminated onto a non-conductive substrate.
 * When the board has only copper tracks and features, and no circuit elements such as capacitors, resistors or active devices have been manufactured into the actual substrate of the board, it is more correctly referred to as printed wiring board (PWB) or etched wiring board.
 * Use of the term PWB or printed wiring board although more accurate and distinct from what would be known as a true printed circuit board, has generally fallen by the wayside for many people as the distinction between circuit and wiring has become blurred.
 * although it doesn't mention a requirement for circuit elements to be in the substrate until the third paragraph, which is a bit confusing.
 * "An Introduction to Printed Circuit Boards" on the Cadence Design Systems Web site says:
 * A printed circuit board is a rigid structure that contains electrical circuitry made up of embedded metal surfaces called traces and larger areas of metal called planes. Components are soldered to the board onto metal pads, which are connected to the board circuitry. This allows components to be interconnected. A board can be composed of one, two, or multiple layers of circuitry.
 * with no mention of components being part of the PCB itself, and "Impedance vs. Resistance: Which Is Most Important for PCB Layout?" on their Web site seems mostly to speak of resistance and impedance as undesired characteristics of board traces:
 * All electronic components exhibit resistance and reactance, which together comprise impedance. As much as we would like to think the conductive traces on a PCB are perfect conductors with zero resistance and reactance, this is not the case. Just like the components that go onto a PCB, the materials that make up the PCB cause it to have some resistance and reactance that will determine signal behavior. One goal of a designer in two areas (wave propagation and power) is to design a board to hit impedance or resistance targets, as both will be affected by certain layout choices. In this article, we will look at impedance vs. resistance and their impact on PCB layouts.
 * This section from an O'Reilly textbook also doesn't say anything about printed components being a requirement.
 * "How to Design and Specify Printed Circuits" is an old ("old" as in "the address predates ZIP codes and they talk a lot about vacuum tube sockets on the circuit board") document from the Institute of Printed Circuits. It mentions printed components, but doesn't appear to require them. Guy Harris (talk) 19:57, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * "Printed components" such as resistors and inductors are a relatively new development in the history of PCBs, but it is outside the basic definition of a printed circuit board which refers to the traces, planes, pads, etc. i.e. everything but the components. - LuckyLouie (talk) 18:12, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

sourcing for bootstrap problem
"" Boot is short for bootstrap or bootstrap load and derives from the phrase to pull oneself up by one's bootstraps. The usage calls attention to the requirement that, if most software is loaded onto a computer by other software already running on the computer, some mechanism must exist to load the initial software onto the computer. Early computers used a variety of ad-hoc methods to get a small program into memory to solve this problem. The invention of read-only memory (ROM) of various types solved this paradox by allowing computers to be shipped with a start up program that could not be erased. Growth in the capacity of ROM has allowed ever more elaborate start up procedures to be implemented. ""

The reason this is important is, well ... *why* did people pick "booting" or "bootstrap loading" as the term for this?

Well, it's because you're stuck with this chicken-and-egg problem. And at first sight the only way to get out of it is to somehow magically pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, right? Right?

While the quote and my summary express my intuition on the topic, unfortunately none of these sources actually state the paradox themselves (thus they are insufficient to support the paragraph content). I've even tried using GPT to get a toehold and branch out to find sources that way, but no bueno.

Is my understanding of the etymology wrong? Surely there must be a source somewhere!

Sometimes the most obvious things are the hardest to source! %-/ Help appreciated. --Kim Bruning (talk) 11:55, 23 August 2023 (UTC)