Talk:Brooklyn Law School

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Lede
An editor deleted a paragraph of the lede that had in summary form some of the more relevant data about the school. Saying it should be in the text. But the lede is supposed to reflect the most important information (which of course may include data) from the text. It should be restored, not deleted because of one editor's unsubstantiated pov. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brooklyn_Law_School&diff=867714296&oldid=867642168 199.102.168.8 (talk) 01:07, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Interim dean and new dean in lede
An unregistered editor insists that the lede should contain these sentences: "For the 2018-2019 academic year, Professor Maryellen Fullerton assumed the role of Interim Dean at the law school, replacing Nicholas W. Allard, who stepped down in July 2018 after six years at the school's helm. Michael T. Cahill, co-Dean at Rutgers Law School, will take over as Brooklyn Law School’s next President and Dean starting in July 2019." I disagree. First, the information is unsourced; it would be ok if the information were discussed in the body of the article, with a source, and mentioned again in the lede but that's not the case. Second, the lede should be a summary of what is in the body of the article and this information isn't mentioned in the body. Third, it's information that simply isn't necessary in the lede; this isn't critical information that readers have to know about to understand this subject. ElKevbo (talk) 13:26, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Classification
We need to make clear in the infobox and lede that this is a private institution. That is how it is classified and it's an essential part of the infobox and lede.

JesseRafe is insisting that we not link "private" to Private university, instead preferring Private school or Independent school. Neither of those articles are correct, in my opinion, given the U.S. usage of "school" to refer primarily to k-12 institutions. Linking "private" to Private university (i.e., private) is the standard practice across articles in Wikipedia for this reason and I see no reason for this article to be different.

I also don't understand JesseRafe's continued removal of "law school" from the "Type" parameter of the infobox. Of course that is a critical part of the "type" of this institution! We can quibble about which article is best to provide readers with more information about "private" but it's undeniable that this is a law school and it's ridiculous to not include that in the infobox as it's the most basic definition of this institution. ElKevbo (talk) 15:01, 26 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Read the articles you're linking to. The "school" one clearly refers to post-secondary as well. "School" is unambiguously one third of the this school's name, it's a school. Of course it's a law school, add that back if you wish. Previously only one word was used there and it just said "private", and additions of "law school" were coupled with erroneous co-additions of "university" which is plainly incorrect. Independent school directly discusses post-secondary education in its text and refers to them in the US subsection. "University" is plainly wrong for this institution, it is not a part of any university. Considerations to what is meant by or understood as "school" are plain editorializing and speculation. It's a school, a law school. Above user wants to imagine there's something called a "law university" because they grant degrees and calls others ridiculous? Please. JesseRafe (talk) 15:08, 26 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The awarding of graduate degrees is the typical distinction between a college and a university; if we had a "private graduate school" article then that would be the most appropriate link but since we don't "private university" is the closest one. It has nothing to do with "being part of any university" and I don't know where you got that idea. It has everything to do with being as specific as possible and generic "private school" and (rarely used in the context of higher education in the U.S.) "independent school" are not at all specific.
 * All I am seeing in your bizarrely belligerent reply are misunderstandings of how these words are typically used in the U.S. and in Wikipedia articles especially in the context of higher education. Focusing on "school" in the institution's name is especially problematic as the phrase to focus on is "law school" which, in the United States, unambiguously refers an institution that awards the JD (and often other graduate degrees in law). And in the U.S. the two fundamental classifications of colleges and universities are "public" and "private," not "independent" (and "dependent?"). ElKevbo (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2021 (UTC)


 * You're being the one being belligerent and casting aspersions. You're also way offbase and contradicting yourself. One can't say how words are used on Wikipedia and then link them and then not use the words found on those Wikipedia pages if they differ from what you prefer! That's just OR and faulty reasoning, unless you have evidence that school stops at 12th grade and nothing else is called "school", let alone graduate degrees which are conveyed at graduate...schools? If you have another reason, then use that, but not false claims as to what Wikipedia says, which is what I say and counter to your baseless claim that BLS is a university. That's plainly false. If you have a problem with "private school" redirecting to "independent school" take it up on *that* talk page, not here. There's no "dependent school" (other than the colleges that make up a university, perhaps) and accusing me of suggesting that that is the dichotomy we should be using is a strawman tactic and indicative of your faulty reasoning and bad faith you've presented in our entire exchange. JesseRafe (talk) 16:11, 26 April 2021 (UTC)


 * You're right: There is no such thing as a college or university and everything is a school. Since we don't need college or university can you please redirect them to school? Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 16:54, 26 April 2021 (UTC)


 * I may not agree with JesseRafe on all he says, but I don't understand why you are giving him so a difficult time here. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:D069:BDD8:6C1F:C57F (talk) 03:47, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

wp:lede
An editor is of the view that his deleting everything in the lede but two sentences is appropriate. I think that a wildly incorrect understanding of wp:lede. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:25CC:860:C81C:AF31 (talk) 05:22, 7 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is appropriate to delete this paragraph of alumni selected by Wikipedia editors with no apparent selection criteria or intent to communicate anything except "this law school is fantastic!" to readers:


 * Brooklyn Law School alumni include New York City Mayor David Dinkins, US Senator Norm Coleman, judges Frank Altimari (US Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit) and Edward R. Korman (US District Court for the Eastern District of New York), attorneys Stephen Dannhauser (Chairman, Weil, Gotshal & Manges), Myron Trepper (co-Chairman, Willkie Farr & Gallagher), Allen Grubman (entertainment lawyer), and Bruce Cutler (criminal defense lawyer), CEOs Barry Salzberg (Deloitte) and Marty Bandier (Sony/ATV Music Publishing), and billionaire real estate developers Leon Charney and Larry Silverstein.


 * If you object to having a short lede, you are welcome to add a few sentences that summarize the many other sections of the article e.g., history, academics. ElKevbo (talk) 05:25, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
 * One - other than your subjective view, what basis do you have for saying it is appropriate? Two - didn't you delete other material previously in the lede? Or am I mistaken. If so, how about instead of violating wp:lede by having it even less summarize the contents of the article below it -- which is what wp:lede calls for (not those parts of the text below .. limited as they are .. that ElKevbo thinks should be reflected, leaving it even less representative than it was previously) .. you restore some of the lede that was previously there, and has been deleted, to edit in accord with what wp:lede calls for. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:25CC:860:C81C:AF31 (talk) 05:37, 7 March 2024 (UTC)


 * I think you're mistaken. The only other things I've removed from the lede of this article are a few parameters of the infobox that aren't used in the law school infobox template and the words "a number of." ElKevbo (talk) 05:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Apologies on that point then. If I am mistaken - because I saw this page years ago, and it had a lede like that at Yale Law. Which has been decimated.
 * On the rest of my point, if you were to delete the parallel language in Yale Law School and New York University School of Law and UC Berkeley School of Law, and all similar pages, and were supported, that would be interesting. I'm bringing those pages to your attention. Will you delete that language? I'm guessing you will not. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:25CC:860:C81C:AF31 (talk) 05:44, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you agree then, having looked at those articles? --2603:7000:2101:AA00:21AE:B3B0:833A:978E (talk) 20:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC)