Talk:Bryan Adams/Archive 2

Untitled
Discussion from 8 February 2007 - 11 June 2007

Covered songs list
That section, to me, is too huge and overwhelms the article. That, together with the choppiness of the prose, is what prevents this from being nominated as a good article, in my opinion. -- Avi 18:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It could go on the discography page. 80.47.164.51 19:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure about the good article thing, it's only just been upgraded from start class to B. Hero1701 22:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I've just removed it because I noticed that it IS already on the discography page. Hero1701 22:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Michelle1, why have you reverted the musical career section?
I spent a great deal of time adding information to the lacklustre section on Bryan's career, yet I did not omit any of the information that was there before. Why has it now been reverted to its previous state? Hero1701 01:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I would also like to know the reasons for you consistenly removing any mention of Sweeney Todd in Bryan's article. Hero1701 01:16, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Sweeney Todd/Bootlegs
Michelle, it is a clearly documented fact that Bryan Adams was in the band Sweeney Todd before his solo career. Now, you're claiming that's not true? Hero1701 15:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Hero, Thanks for your great contributions to the page! I work at BA's office in Canada and we have the facts here, and BA was in many bands before his career started. Highlighting a bar band he spent a few months in when he was 15 was by no means a milestone in his career, and if we agreed we would add the 5 other bar bands he was in! There are people that are continuely try to capitalise on his name with bootleg recordings who don't pay any of the musicians, so i hope you will respect the changes I've made to your addition. all the best. Michelle1


 * That may be so, however, Sweeney Todd are a band of some note, not simply a bar band, they are also a band he released an album with. To me, it seems that they should not be simply omitted from this article, since they are a significant part of his background and career.  Also, you have not simply selectively removed mention of Sweeney Todd, you have completely reverted the edits I have made, deleting useful information in the process. Hero1701 22:16, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Hero, As i said, I work for BA's office and there were many bands before BA started working on his own music and ALL of them were bar bands when BA worked in them. The information you added has been re-edited based on fact, for example he is still working with Jim Vallance and Mutt Lange today. I've kept many of the details you added and thought they were good additions. please keep adding things, and i look forward to your input. best,

Michelle1


 * Michelle, the Vallance and Lange titles were only really a way to try and seperate eras in his career, those headings can be renamed, but I think they should remain in. If you wouldn't mind, could you explain your reasons for removing some of the following information, just so I'm clear:
 * The part about how he met Vallance
 * The part about Adams' change in vocal style
 * The part about Adams' parting of ways with Jim Vallance (I know they still work together, but this was the last time Adams and Vallance collaborated regularly, and on music that Adams would release himself)
 * The part about Adams' anticipated album.


 * Finally, may I say again, that I believe Sweeney Todd is worthy of mention, since he recorded an album with them, he was part of that band and that band was part of his career, that album is still available in shops today. His part in it deserves some place in this article.


 * Thanks for your cooperation Hero1701 03:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Dear Hero, You are obviously a big fan and have an interest in catagorising these time frames, but the bio doesn't need those headlines, it would be better to catagorise things from decade to decade. Thanks again. You can always write to us on email if you like: info@bryanadams.com Michelle1
 * re: when he met Vallance, it is quite clear in the article when they met, and your thoughts on his vocal style are subjective.
 * re: Jim and BA working together, they still work regularly (four songs for the new album!).
 * re: new album. if you really think it's needed you can add something, but there is no real news other than it will probably be this year.
 * re: the band/album you keep mentioning. you have to understand this is absolutely not BA's work, is not in the shops and is only available as a bootleg on the internet. Lets drop that please.


 * Michelle, that's what I meant, decade to decade seems fine to me.
 * I'm not sure that my thoughts are so subjective; it is quite clear to hear on his first album and prior material that Adams sang in a much higher voice, and later, on You Want It - You Got It, he began singing in the "raspy" style he has used since. I believe that Jim Vallance even said something similar on his site.  Your thoughts on this?
 * Great to hear that Jim and BA are working on songs for his new album, his work with Vallance is some of my favourite, but, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe this is the first time that BA has released a song written himself and Vallance since 'Waking Up The Neighbours'?
 * I think some info about the new album is a good idea, even if it's very little, it's better than nothing at all.
 * About the band I keep mentioning, I'm a bit confused at the problem we seem to be having, but the album I have is not a bootleg, I bought it last year in HMV, it's a genuine album. It's been repackaged as Sweeney Todd featuring Bryan Adams and was re-released in 2006, that's what the copyright date on the back says.

Hero1701 15:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Dear Hero, I can absolutely assure you, it is an illegal bootleg and not an Adams recording. The bootleg you are refering to, has been packaged and re-packaged dozens of times to rip people like yourself off. The only offical releases of BA's work are with Universal Records, everything else is either a rip-off, and illegal download, or a bootleg recording. Michelle1


 * That doesn't make sense; HMV is the biggest high street music retailer in the UK, they don't sell bootlegs. If it was a bootleg, why would it be copyrighted to Sanctuary Records?  And if it isn't a real record, how come one of the songs on it won a Juno award in 1977, and if Bryan Adams had nothing to do with the record, how come he accepted that award in 1977?  Hero1701 20:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Dear Hero, If you bought it at HMV, and it has Bryan's name on the cover, then HMV sells bootlegs. End of story, but they can easily be dupped into selling any kind of recording, as they are just retailers. The information about the said recordings is listed in the discography under 'odd recordings' as are many of the other recordings he has done prior and during his career. All the best. Best Michelle1


 * Since we don't seem to be able to come to a decisive conclusion to this dispute, I've be reading up on Wikipedia's Dispute resolution policies and I think it would be appropriate to request a third opinion on this matter, so I've put a request for a third opinion on the matter. Hero1701 00:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, I'm here to provide a third opinion. I'm not familiar with the work of Bryan Adams but I am familiar with bootlegs. For instance, System of a Down's Storaged Melodies. Before I had encountered this particular title, I had no idea that bootlegs existed, however they do, and they can be packaged very well in some cases. I do agree that a little more info is better though, especially if the band BA was in is quite notable. A person's beginnings can be what makes them successful. Hope that was of some help :-)
 * --Seraphim Whipp 00:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Fourth opinion. This is in response to a request for a third opinion, but it appears Seraphim Whipp beat me to the punch while I was still editing. I can't see any reason that the Sweeney Todd stuff should be left out. I would say that any band that produced an album sold at major retailers is not simply a "bar band," but moreover even a "bar band" that had a major musician such as Adams as a member would be worthy of note. If you want to suppress the Sweeney Todd album, Wikipedia is not the place to do it. Take it up with the producers and retailers. Grouse 00:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Since there appears to be a consensus here for keeping the information, I have warned Michelle1 about deleting the information again. Any new reasons for disagreement should be discussed here first. The previous reasons have been unconvincing, and appear to have more to do with irrelevant commercial motivations than what makes a better encyclopedia. Grouse 11:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * On her talk page Michelle1 points out that Bryan Adams is no longer mentioned on http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/music/artist/bio/0,,561333,00.html#bio. I find this strange, as he was clearly mentioned before, so someone is trying to suppress information about Bryan Adams being in Sweeney Todd even beyond Wikipedia. Nonetheless, the All Music Guide is syndicated in other locations so it is a simple matter to change the link to one that still has the information. Grouse 13:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The following is copied from Michelle1:


 * "i added two paragraphs yesterday evening. i would like to enclose it in the body of that text. please tell me how we can do this. thanks Michelle1 14:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)"


 * If you want to add a mention of Shock, then that is fine with me. If you want to delete the paragraph about Sweeney Todd then you will need to provide a better argument to do so. Extirpating mentions of biographies solely because they are "unauthorized" is unacceptable. If you want to continue the claim about being signed for the "sum of one dollar" then a source needs to be provided. Grouse 14:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

i would like to enclose this information with links into the main body of the latest two paragraphs. would you or anyone have any obejection if the entry was thus: As an adolescent, he pursued his rock goals with single-minded fervor. He explained to Steve Pond from Rolling Stone Magazine: "In high school, I was too far into my music to even pay attention to girls." At the age of fifteen Adams quit school and used the money his parents had saved for his higher education to buy a grand piano. He joined bands like Shock and Sweeney Todd, and played in nightclubs, supplementing his income by washing dishes, selling pet food, and working in record stores. A serendipitous meeting with drummer Jim Vallance in a Vancouver music store led to a song-writing partnership that continues to this day. As O'Hara from Macleans magazine phrased it, "Vallance was looking for a singer, Adams was looking for a route to musical respectability, and the two hit it off immediately." The pair began writing songs together and recording demonstration tapes.


 * I have started with your suggested paragraph and synthesized the relevant information about Sweeney into it. I hope you will find this a useful compromise. Thank you for discussing rather than reverting&mdash;it makes Wikipedia a more civil place. Grouse 15:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

thank you, i've let Grouse know about the changes as well. perhaps if i could make another suggestion? to make the links similar to the other ones on the page, as I indicated on my previous note. i've been verifing all the content on the page with links, this would be just for consistancy. Michelle1 15:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm glad we've got this matter sorted out to (I hope) everyone's satisfaction. I'd like to thank Michelle1 for being so accomodating and I hope there are no hard feelings.  Hero1701 15:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm happy too... both with ANY mention of Sweeny Todd in the main article (Michelle1 removed my edit on Feb 3rd & 5th - labelling it as "Spam" (although I don't think it fit WP:SPAM ) and I'll be interested in how the whole "middle name" edit war thing finally resolves itself. (even though I'm not involved in that one)  Thomas Dzubin  Talk 15:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe a third opinion is required :-)
 * --Seraphim Whipp 15:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Funny. :) But of course there are already too many cooks in this kitchen to add another third opinion. I would suggest that the article remain without the middle name for a few days. If a reliable source stating that he has no middle name is not provided, then it should go back in. Grouse 15:59, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I understand what you are getting at in the inconsistency. But WP:REF specifies that a full citation (which has more information) is better than a naked link. It would be better for the other links to be made into fully cited footnotes, but I do not have the time to do this myself at the moment. Grouse 15:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm still not entirely sure how to do that but I'll maybe try and take a stab at it later. Hero1701 15:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * ok, then for the sake of consistancy, and unless anyone has any strong objections, i will put the link as i have been doing throughout the beginning of the article.Michelle1 16:08, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure, they can always be converted into footnotes at a later time. Hero1701 16:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * If you simply want to change a web link from ref style to naked link style then I disagree (as I think it is regressive) but I do not object. If this involves removing any citations to things that are not on a web site, such as an unauthorized biography, then I would object. Grouse 16:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * as this open discussion goes, i'd prefer to remove the biography reference as it is incantation of inaccuracies and keep the other reference as I have been doing throughout the first half of the page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Michelle1 (talk • contribs) 20:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC).

gentlemen, can i please edit the paragraph i entered the other night, with your additions as thus. it keeps the information less one link and keeps it consistant with the page. thanks for your kind consideration:

As an adolescent, he pursued his rock goals with single-minded fervor. He explained to Steve Pond from Rolling Stone Magazine: "In high school, I was too far into my music to even pay attention to girls." At the age of fifteen Adams quit school and used the money his parents had saved for his higher education to buy a grand piano. He played in nightclubs in bands like Shock and Sweeney Todd. He supplemented his income by washing dishes, selling pet food, and working in record stores. A serendipitous meeting with drummer Jim Vallance in a Vancouver music store led to a song-writing partnership that continues to this day. As O'Hara from Macleans magazine phrased it, "Vallance was looking for a singer, Adams was looking for a route to musical respectability, and the two hit it off immediately." The pair began writing songs together and recording demonstration tapes.


 * Are you trying to remove mention of the album? Because as far as I can tell that would be the first album he appeared on, which seems notable. No, I still do not think it is okay to excise the reference to the biography. Grouse 00:36, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * as much as I'd like to, no i'm not trying to remove the album. i don't know if you realise, but it's been in the discography all along with all of the other recordings BA has done outside of his own work and is represented perfectly in the AMG link provided. regarding the other link which i think needs removing; unless you have read the book yourself, i suggest it goes as a random source at the bottom of the page, as truely the other link does the job far more accurately. cut me some slack here, I know what I'm talking about! Michelle1 05:14, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Bryan Adams and Jim Vallance as co-writers for KISS
It is a little known fact that in 1982, Bryan Adams and Jim Vallance were co-writers with Gene Simmons for 2 KISS songs: Rock and Roll Hell and War Machine. Those two songs can be found on the album Creatures of the Night from KISS. This could be added as trivia or something.
 * Those songs are listed on the discography page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.139.237.119 (talk) 00:53, 26 February 2007 (UTC).

True! Thanks for the correction! Denis March 1 2007

The middle name, if any
The Canadian Encyclopedia says "Guy". Some other editor claims to have seen his passport with "Guy". ( A web site says it's after Adams' birthday on Guy Fawkes day.). The Order of Canada Web site doesn't give the middle name. So what's the deal? Why doesn't he use the middle name, which would distinguish him from, oh, say, the half-dozen other "Bryan Adams" on the IMDB? --Wtshymanski 18:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

We have never seen a middle name and we work with him every day. Michelle1 04:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * So ASK him! Why do *so many* sources give it as "Guy", like in Guy Fawkes Day (Adams' birthday)? I trust my "Canadian Encyclopedia" over some anononymous Internet person who claims to claims to be plural and who claims to work for Adams.  It would be a worth-while addition to a somewhat bland, colorless and choppy article if we had some *facts* in it.


 * Similarly, recording with "Sweeney Todd" should not just be brushed off in the discography since it was Adams' first appearance with a Juno-award winning band! Your sterilization campaign is hurting the article; someone in your (putative) position should be a veritable gold mine of facts and accuracy. (You probably don't even remember when "Roxy Roller" was on the charts.) Adams' career goes back a good long way and this article should show the roots of his rise. No-one is going to take the time to improve the article if you inexplicably roll back what appear to me to be perfectly non-controversial edits.


 * I've got to check out a couple of Adams' biographies - my local library has one by Saidman, one by Adams himself, and one by someone named Gregor. Which do you recommend? --Wtshymanski 15:36, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

There is nothing sterilizing about putting things in the correct category and removing errors. His participation in work outside of his own, before and during his solo career, is listed in detail in the discography. BA doesn't have his own biography other than the photographic one he did with Andrew Catlin in the 90's. Everything else is completely unauthorized. You are quite welcome to email me directly at info@bryanadams.com if you need more proof on my validity. Michelle1 16:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm off to the library on Monday to pick up more biographies. Surely fair and balanced discussion of someone's life is available in other than the person's autobiography. The Saidman biography (which I've just skimmed a couple of pages) suggests that Bryan Adams' publicity department should have the word "Security" printed on the door. I begin to see why. --Wtshymanski 17:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I know it's a bit more work, but has anyone considered calling the Kingston public library and see what the local newspaper(s) birth announcements are for November 1959? (I don't know if they did that kind of thing back then). If there is a birth announcement for Bryan, AND if there is no middle name in the announcement, then that can pretty much close the argument. Also... even more work would be to see if it is possible to get the actual government birth record from the Ontario gov't... due to privacy & identity theft concerns, someone may actually have to walk into a gov't office to do that... unfortunately, I'm several provinces West of Ontario, so I am unable to do that. 68.146.251.64 15:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Exemplary modus-enquiry proposition. (Hope feasible another help resolve, location obviate action in person.) Thank you. SandDruhed 19:15, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: "We have never seen a middle name" by Michelle1
For this discussion I bring the external links below, in hope that our encyclopedia presents one day an honest and full life-account, free from vested motive. Thank you. SandDruhed 18:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again for bringing this gossip up. I am also interested in the facts, and the name you are suggesting is based on a fabrication of his birthday (5 November) which in England is Guy Fawkes Day. I give you the following sites which are far more credible:

     

Michelle1 15:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * And yet print references, equally authoritative, give the middle name as "Guy". Surely not everyone born on Nov. 5 gets the middle name "Guy", even if they do have English parents. See the Saidman biography I've just added and also the Canadian Encyclopedia.  So,though he no longer uses the middle name ( a lot of performers don't use their full or birth names), he from all appearences was given the name "Guy". --Wtshymanski 16:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello Michelle1, You mistake enquiry for "gossip" and make value judgment on credibility. Thank you. SandDruhed 19:26, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

There is enquiry and there is hearsay. Adams has never used a middle name on anything he has ever recorded. There are sites on the net that speculate that he may have a middle name, but there isn't a site or a reference that can actually substantiate the claim.Michelle1 22:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Substantiated-enquiry-claim and hearsay not pairwise mutual exclusive. Hearsay is examined under enquiry. Thank you. SandDruhed 16:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * There does seem to be a great deal of evidence to support the fact that Adams' middle name is guy. In fact, I once heard him say that it was Guy in an interview on television.  I believe it was on the Richard & Judy show.  Hero1701 01:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I have yet to see a reliable source that states that he does not have a middle name. No, sources that omit the middle name are not evidence that there is no middle name. Some of the sources provided (such as IMDB) very seldom use the middle name unless it is part of how the person publicizes themselves. A person claiming to work for Bryan Adams is not a reliable source either, although if it were publicly put on his official web site explicitly that there was no middle name I would accept it. Grouse 01:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I recently held and personally inspected Mr. Adams' British passport; it clearly states: Given names: Bryan Guy Adams. I do not understand the reason for the suppression of this information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.92.168.166 (talk) 14:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC).


 * Who are you and how did you come into posession of his passport? Hero1701 15:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It is as irrelevant that someone claims to have seen Bryan Adams' passport as it is that someone claiming to work for him says he has no middle name. Only reliable sources are important, and so far all the reliable sources have either said that his middle name is Guy, or have been silent on the subject (which is not the same thing as saying that he has no middle name). Grouse 15:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

without actually scanning his passport and putting it online, give me an indication on what kind of 'reliable source' you would need and I will supply it. Michelle1 16:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * If there is a statement put on his official web site that he has no middle name, then I would consider that conclusive in the absence of more compelling evidence that he does. Please note that there is a difference between a statement on an official web site, and a statement from someone claiming to work for Bryan Adams. The former is easily verifiable by anyone and the latter is not. Grouse 16:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * as requested: http://www.bryanadams.com/onlineshop/badnews/generalnews.asp Michelle1 23:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No offence Michelle1, but if you do indeed work for Bryan Adams, then it is clear it's simply you posting that message. It's the exact same thing as you posting here that he doesn't have a middle name. Therefore, and this is just personally, I don't count that as valid evidence.
 * Seraphim Whipp 23:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for asking, i don't run the website. It is run by different people, all of whom have to speak to BA.200.190.195.70 01:01, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think it is a verifiable self-published source for this kind of information. Grouse 01:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Please Michelle1 state employment position claim within Bryan Adams organization. This help determine neutral point of view and conflict of interest status. Thank you. SandDruhed 14:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with Grouse. Without actually looking at BA's passport or birth certificate, I think this is about as official as it's going to get, however I do think that all this is worth mentioning in the trivia section, since it would seem to be a common myth and even exaggerated at times (strangely) by BA himself.  Hero1701 15:19, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * YES! A mention in a trivia section is an excellent suggestion.  Perhaps as a similar analogy: I was called "Tommy" in the 1960s...however I have never used "Tommy" professionally or on my resume or on my passport.  A few people (mainly friends who knew me in the 1960s or my sister if she wants to annoy me :-) still call me by "Tommy" and I actually answer them.  If I had a Wikipedia article (hahaha), I would consider a mention of "Tommy" in a "Trivia" section to be appropriate.  another example: (although insulting), if a bunch of people also had a nickname of "Bonehead" for me (maybe all the people in my Archaeology/Anthropology classes where we excavated bones), I might consider that to be appropriate Trivia also even if my real name doesn't have any relation to "Bonehead" and I never really agreed to be called "Bonehead".    Thomas Dzubin  Talk 15:36, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Seraphim Whipp advance cogent point. With him her I agree. Thank you. SandDruhed 19:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hehe. I'm a girl! And thank-you. :-)
 * Seraphim Whipp 23:59, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Please Seraphim, excuse gender conjecture, I beg your pardon. Thank you. SandDruhed 01:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

it seems things just get added to the page by people who disagree anyway. see trivia. Grouse? Michelle1 03:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think two sources counts as "many sources," and I wouldn't say that "some sources" would be notable enough for inclusion. As this is a biography of a living person, I think the contentious bit (which is probably wrong given our current evidence) should be removed. Grouse 10:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * My opinion. We yet see no reliable source that prove or disprove. Trivia mention is no injury, is appropriate section and valid inclusion. Thank you. SandDruhed 13:18, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

who is Michelle1

 * I work for his management. if anyone is at all in doubt of my knowledge on the subject, or wants to contest my impartiality, I suggest you look at my entries. Michelle1 05:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

You may have a conflict of interest issue, then, and you may seriously wish to reconsider editing, or at the very least HOW you edit this article. -- Avi 05:38, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Michelle1: Perhaps you should also consider putting a bit more detail into your edit summaries. Looking at them at (Michelle1), many of them seem to be lacking as per WP:CIVIL, ...for example, my Feb 3 edit which you reverted and marked as "Spam" and the same edit a day later.  No discussion or mention on the article talk page, just a quick revert like I was a common vandal (and yes, I have reread the Wikipedia guideline on assuming good faith). So after that and also looking at some of the other reverts that you've done, I don't see any point in editing the article any more and I've moved on (except for this talk page) to editing other articles.   Now, you may argue that you reverted my edits because I didn't provide references/cites, which is certainly a good argument, however on the flip side, many of your edit additions don't provide detailed references/cites either...but which you may claim you don't need because you work for Bryan Adams management...but if you take a look at WP:COI guideline, again I quote: "avoid editing articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with"  Please note that personally, I do believe you are editing mostly in good faith, and I've certainly learned many tidbits of information from your edits (like this one), but you may also check the Wikipedia policy on consensus at WP:CONS.  ...Anyway, that's my thoughts this sunny (where I am) Friday morning.  Thomas Dzubin  Talk 14:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, I forgot to add a link to WP:NOT, ...I'm not posting in this talk page because I think I'm right or because I like to argue, I'm posting because I'm trying to stick to the ideals of the Wikipedia policies and guidelines. As I've mentioned in a previous talk edit: "my life is not really enhanced or lessened knowing Bryan Adams middle name, if he has one, or if he played in Sweeney Todd or not". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dzubint (talk • contribs) 14:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
 * Yes, and I do see the irony in saying "I'm trying to stick to the ideals of the Wikipedia policies and guidelines" and I didn't sign my previous post and had the HagermanBot autosign it! :-)   Thomas Dzubin  Talk 14:50, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear Thomas, If you or anyone here have a problem with the two years of submissions I've made here, then take them out, I'm ok with that. My view point has always been clear on what I have added and subtracted; to give accurate information and put things in the correct places. Personally i don't like the way the information or the links that have been added lately as i feel they are repeated already in the discography, and furthermore it gives undue attention to work which has been repeatedly sold as BA's work and just isn't. If we want to get into techicalities, we could add every single studio session from his pre-17 years as a studio singer to this page, which would be accurate, but clearly work for hire isn't what BA is about. Michelle1 17:07, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think that the Wiki software allows for edit summaries to be changed or taken out after they have been committed. I was commenting mainly on your lack of detail in your edit summaries, lack of discussion on the talk pages (until very recently) about your reverts, as well as a possible conflict of interest position.  I was not commenting on the content of the "two years of submissions".  In fact I think the content that you have added is great, it's just the content that you've removed (and the process) that I (and some others) may have a problem with.   Thomas Dzubin  Talk 17:38, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * i thought the whole point of the enclyopedia is the ever changing landscape and the oppertunity for all to add and subtract as more information is available. does that mean you don't support my request? Michelle1 18:31, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * When uncontested, yes. When contested, and back up by other sources, some form of consensus needs to be reached to prevent perpetual-check-type edit warring that just ends up in a protected article and a slew of 3RR blocks [[image:smile.png]]. Discussions on talk pages are GREAT for working these kinds of things out between passionate and dedicated editors. -- Avi 18:45, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Adams' Backing Band
I had a thought, I think Adams' backing band possibly deserves its own section in this article. He doesn't simply use session musicians when performing live as many solo artists do, Adams has been with his band (or at least with Curry and Scott) for about 20 years. In some ways, Bryan Adams is more like a band than a solo artist, so perhaps it deserves its own section. Thoughts on this? Hero1701 16:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * WP:MUSTARD specifies that "In most cases, backing bands do not need their own articles; there are exceptions, such as The Wailers and E Street Band." So the place for information about the band would be in this article as you are suggesting rather than in a new one. Grouse 16:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

WP:COI Conflict of Interest guideline
Although Michelle1's edits are certainly done in good faith ( WP:ASSUME), I do wonder about the Wikipedia conflict of interest guideline since she seems to be directly connected to Bryan Adams (website manager? publicist? ). I realize that it is just a guideline and not Wikipedia policy, but the part that jumps out at me is: "avoid editing articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with" I stay away from editing certain articles or making certain edits because I don't have a "safe distance" from the subject matter. (although I did create an article about someone notable who I did have one date with in the 1980s, I felt my distance on that one was far enough to avoid WP:COI)   Thomas Dzubin  Talk 16:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * (and as a side note, my life is not really enhanced or lessened knowing Bryan Adams middle name, if he has one, or if he played in Sweeney Todd or not... but what I do care about more is Wikipedia is a collaborative free web encyclopedia that has external references for things mentioned it that I can look up if I need to) If there are multiple external reliable references about something, then it should be in Wikipedia (and I don't mean "I have seen a passport" since that is not verifiable).    Thomas Dzubin  Talk 16:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * your point of maintaining impartiality is a good one. for the most part, I've tried my best to back up the entries with links to other pages on the internet and will continue to do so. the discussion over the group was unfortunate one, as I felt, and still feel strongly that odd recordings outside of his own solo work were best left in the discography. Michelle1 21:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Article Creation and Improvement Drive
I've nominated this article for the creation and improvement drive because I think that would really help it to be improved to good article status. If you are like-minded, head over there (Article Creation and Improvement Drive) and add your vote! Thanks. Hero1701 22:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

cat issue
I came looking for the People from BC cat, whatever it's properly called....and OK, OK, so he was born in Kingston. Consensus is he's from North Vancouver; didn't want to add that pending ndrestanding the "people-from categories" bt birthplace ain't the only defining parameter.Skookum1 19:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

haven book and name 'confusion'
I've removed the note about the 'Haven' book, as it was never officially released by a publisher, whereas the other two books were in fact released by offical publishers (Key Porter and Powerhouse respectively). If we we were include all of the unpublished photographic work here it would be hard to trace.

On the note of any confusion between, Bryan Adams and Ryan Adams, Ryan is significantly more low profile comparitively, and name confusion would be more likely on his page. Michelle1 13:48, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

AC/DC Recording At Bryan Adams' Studio
Unfortunately, I don't remember what show I heard it on, but it was a radio show, an interview with AC/DC lead singer Brian Johnson. He said that AC/DC were recording part of their upcoming album at Bryan Adams' studio and that they liked it because he still had all the analogue stuff. Does anyone know anything more about this? Hero1701 15:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Failed GA
It's not good. We got ourselves few references, with some fact tags, a timeline, trivia etc. Alientraveller 20:41, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Profile Image Changearound
I found an extra picture of Adams in Wikipedia's database, so I thought it would make sense to use it, this means we can put the current photo of him in performance lower down in the article, which I have done, plus it's a good profile pic of him. If you want to change things back, please discuss them here first before you do it. Thanks. Daskill 23:21, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 20:01, 2 May 2016 (UTC)