Talk:Buckfast Tonic Wine

Incorrect, and unvalidated Information
One of the writers from this page is obviously from Coatbridge, and is trying to put a more cool spin on Coatbridge by referring to it, as the "Buckfast Capital" without any reference to such a quote. Most Monklands area is the same place with no real boundary. Airdrie & Coatbridge are pretty much indistuingishable as seperate towns, so any attempt to try and claim "Coatbridge" alone as a capital is erroneous. Please support your quote or leave it out of this entry. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris303 (talk • contribs) 20:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Chris303 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris303 (talk • contribs) 20:32, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Numbers on bottles
I don't want to sound all Wikipedian but do we have any sources regarding the numbers on the bottles? It's just that I've wondered for years what they were about and have heard plenty of different suggestions (syrupy/smooth, different production lines, no difference, etc) and it'd be great if someone had actually gone to the effort to find out for sure.

Also, I've seen bottles between 1-40 (including quite a number of 1s, so they can't be that rare) but I don't think I've ever seen one above that and I knew someone who maintained a complete collection of the numbered bottles. Perhaps this is a difference between the Scottish/Irish versions? Or have I just missed them (quite likely given the effect of the sweet tonic on one's memory)?--Acamon 09:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * My theory is that the numbers on the bottles themselves are to do with the manufacture rather than what is eventually put in them. I presume the number corresponds to the mould, so that if a faulty batch of bottles are produced then the offending mould can be taken out of service quickly. Another possibility is that it has something to do with the batch of raw glass, or perhaps that is what the dots signify. I am sceptical that the number on the bottle relates to the content because J Chandler will get consignments of bottles in the hundreds, if not more, and it would be difficult to separate bottles by the embossed number. BTW the bottle I bought in Blackpool at the weekend has number 19. Rugxulo 00:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

The (fairly incoherent) theory floating around down south is that the numbers relate to how the bottles are stacked in crates - either you get crates of '1s' or you get a crate numbered 1 to 24 or 40 or whatever. This might tie in with the view that lower numbers taste better than higher numbers. Or it might not. The stuff does seem to taste different from bottle to bottle. We should ask the monks i guess ...Mujinga 01:09, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know the numbers on the bottles refer to either:

1. The cask/barrel the wine is from 2. The thickness of the glass

What factual evidence there is to support this I don't know. Maybe a section on "myths" regarding the numbers would be helpfull

I emailed Buckfast manufacturers J Chandler & Co about the numbers and I received the following reply. Bit disappointing really: Thank you for your enquiry.

The numbers on the bottle relate only to the glass bottle manufacturers mould numbers. They have no bearing on or relate to the wine in any way.

Regards

J Chandler & Co (Buckfast) Ltd Franyhi 01:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)franyhi

yes i went on a pilgrimage to Buckfast Abbey and they told me the same thing in the shop there Mujinga (talk) 21:46, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Nonsense removed
I removed the nonsense about the Convention on Human Rights and the Data Protection Act (which covers data held on computer and is therefore irrelevant to restricting sales of Buckfast - and even if the restrictions were based on electronic databases (HOW unlikely) off-licenses would only have to register with the DPR to comply with the regulations.) -- unsigned comment from user:84.67.70.215


 * Quite right - it sounds like someone's unsourced conjecture. If they'd said that xyz newspaper or abc pressure group had said it might contravene those laws then we should probably have included it, but lacking a source it's not suitable. -- Finlay McWalter |  Talk 15:46, 26 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, I just checked the new Data Protection Act and it does cover paper-based personal data in a "structured" format - nevertheless, an automatic breach of the act would only occur if off-licenses hadn't registered under the Act (and if they'd been told to record the data by the police, it seems likely they would have been told the correct procedure). -- user:84.67.70.215 

If you are refering to restrictions on sales of Buckfast in Scotland there is some kind of data base kept. It seems to revolve around off-licences in certain areas being made to keep a list of the serial numbers from each bottle sold. The idea, although it doesn't sound that fullproof, is that when you buy a bottle you have to sign your name (possibly your address as well) then if a crime is committed using the bottle it can be traced back to you. As I said, it doesn't seem like the best system but I know it is in place in some ares on the outskirts of Glasgow.

Up here in East Kilbride they have also started writing on the bottles with ultra violet pens so that any underagers that get caught drinking it they will be able to tell which shop they got it from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.22.70 (talk) 19:23, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Article rearranged
I changed the article to give an overview of the drink's popularity in parts of Scotland and Ireland *before* going on to talk about underage drinking. The bit about "chronic alcoholics" I removed because the controversy is mainly about anti-social behaviour, not about use by heavy and/or alcoholic drinkers, and I have put more emphasis on that issue. Hope this is acceptable. 62.7.141.241 20:36, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

I have added a new reference site for the Glasgow Buckfast Appreciation Society

Buckfast Triangle
As a native of Coatbridge which is the largest of the 3 towns in the "buckfast triangle", I very much doubt that Airdrie, Bellshill and wishaw account for 80% of buckfast sales. The total population of the 3 towns is only around 80,000 which is nothing in comparison to Glasgow (ok, it'd probably be only the east end and south side that'd drink it, but still) or Belfast.

Also this triangle does not even include the two largest towns in their own region North Lanarkshire, Motherwell and Cumbernauld. Plus the article also incorrectly said that South Lanarkshire is in the triangle (which it isnt) which would suggest that buckfast is a problem there too.

Perhaps someone could suggest a more accurate correction? Jizz 03:08, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


 * AIUI the 80% figure came from the Daily Record. I can't find any surviving articles on the Record's website but one of the articles quoted by bawbag.com has this figure. Perhaps the "Buckfast Triangle" is another media invention. It (and the mention of it in the article) probably pre-dates the bother in Auchinleck in 2005 which is mentioned in the article. Rugxulo 21:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Aye.. if it was listed in the Daily Retard is must be true.

Mrs Brown
Today I mentioned Buckfast with a friend of mine, a Mrs Brown. She had heard of the nickname "Mrs Brown" for the wine but thought it emanated from south west England (where she has in-laws of that name) and that the nickname is at least 20 years old. I was thinking it had something to do with The Broons. Some information on the origin of this nickname would be quite interesting because unlike many of the other nicknames (Wreck the hoose juice, Ned Champagne etc) it may not be of Scottish or Irish origin. Rugxulo 21:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Licence granted on condition Buckfast is not sold
The article mentions that a premises only got a licence on condition Buckfast was not to be sold (I will stick a citation tag there). ISTR reading somewhere that this is untrue, but a prospective licencee promised not to sell the wine in an attempt to make a good impression with the council. If so then the article text is wrong. Rugxulo 21:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Northern Ireland, particularily Co. Armagh
I am angry to see that Northern Ireland's not got much of a mention here. It is definitely as popular here as in Scotland. Co. Armagh is of course the county in which Lurgan is, mentioned elsewhere in the article. i may add something in.. Do, although it seems some contributions have been scrapped already Franyhi 20:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)franyhi

Armagh in Great Britain?
Armagh is not in shite britain but part of our glorious free nation of ireland!!

Hearsay
I met a nice old Irish alcoholic on a bus in Hackney a few years ago. As we shared a bottle of Buckies he told me about how the stuff used to be sold in pharmacies in Ireland. This was good for him after a night of hard drinking, because the pharmacies opened at ten in the morning, a full hour before the pubs, which opened at eleven. Thus, he could get a bottle in before the drinking began again. After a while the dastardly powers that be stopped the sale of Buckies in nonlicensed places and this is why (according to him) they had to put on the label that it contains "no health-giving properties". Cheers! Mujinga 01:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Photo
The photo of an empty bottle lying as litter gives a biased impression of the drink. If anyone agrees I will provide a photo of a full bottle standing on a counter. Doobystew 17:11, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately I must agree, the photo is entirely out of keeping with the usually humourless style of Wikipedia and it could be a lot better. You might also want to revert all the vandalism and put some protection on this page, it may be a lot of fun but it is not very encyclopaedic. -- Horkana 17:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I think showing a bottle of Bucky in its natural environment is within Wikipedia policy actually. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.198.220.139 (talk) 11:29, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * but that is NOT in Buckfasts natural environment as the vast majority of sales end up in people's front rooms as opposed to a small minority in gutters. I call NPOV and will remove it. 81.110.28.183 (talk) 09:39, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Nonsense Sentence
"The monks of Buckfast Abbey are a fine folk,long descended by the crab people before them and their distribution partners strenuously deny that their product is particularly harmful to goats but bears must beweare "pareden, saying that it is irresponsibly and illegally enjoyed by the great majority of underage purchasers." I'm guessing that it is supposed to say something along the liens of "most purchasers enjoy it properly, it is the underage, illegal drinkers that are the problem".  Also, the whole quote deserves a CITE PLZ. --JD79 20:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

10 year supplie of buckie
Shereenshelby (talk) 13:54, 6 July 2009 (UTC)there has been a bit of talk about buckfast factorys shuting down and that there is only a 10 year supplie dont no if its true has any1 else heard this??

Nicknames
Does the article really need such an extensive list of nicknames, particularly given that nearly all are unsourced? I'd suggest cutting it down to a handful of the most common, and only if they're sourced. Kay Dekker (talk) 19:32, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * There are obviously many nicknames and we should list as many as can be reliably cited. Some years ago I did source some of the nicknames from a BBC article, but the citation has gone. Rugxulo (talk) 22:32, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That section is a perpetual magnet for everyone's favorite or local term. I nuked the whole list as there is currently no cite. DMacks (talk) 06:16, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's two references http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4264059.stm and http://www.flickr.com/photos/rabsda/3161078192/ I personally think it is an important part of documenting the unique cultural aspects of buckfast and its unique cult status in the west of scotland in particular. --cloudo (talk) 07:34, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely important, but definitely only what's citeable. BBC ref is good, so I added the ones it gives. DMacks (talk) 18:45, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You lot are so retarded! Ooh the nicknames are not cited, ooh we can't put that in. Classic limited thinking. A BBC hack gets a few names off the streets and adds them to an article, but that's OK? Where are the references or sources for those names? But this is the nature of the world now, nothing is "official" till an "official" source says so!? Why are people still bothering with Wikipedia any more? It's not a repository of open-sourced knowledge it's just a dumping ground for the "official" version. So put the nicknames back, or must we all obey what "authority" tells us to do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.39.48.169 (talk) 12:16, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry but they're too many nicknames and most of them could just as well be made up. Like Cake in Brass Eye's Drugs spoof. it was known on the street as "loonytoad quack", "Joss Ackland's spunky backpack", "ponce on the heath" and "rustledust" etc. All made up names, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.155.67.148 (talk) 10:20, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Reasons for relative English / Scottish / Irish popularity?
The article implies that Buckfast abuse is primarily an issue in Scotland and to a lesser extent Ireland, and my personal experience agrees with this. Buckfast is rarely drunk by any sort of 'problem drinker' in England, whether street drinking alcoholics or underage teenagers - they drink sherry, cheap strong lager, cider or ordinary wine. If anybody knows why the Scots drink Buckfast and the English don't, it would make an interesting addition to the article. Buckfast is of course made in England. --80.176.142.11 (talk) 16:31, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe the answer to this is similar to that given by Mujinga earlier on, "I met a nice old Irish alcoholic on a bus in Hackney a few years ago. As we shared a bottle of Buckies he told me about how the stuff used to be sold in pharmacies in Ireland. This was good for him after a night of hard drinking, because the pharmacies opened at ten in the morning ..." In Scotland was it not the case that pubs were closed on Sunday afternoons - or all day even. If so, then a chemist may have been able to supply wreck the hoos joose. Alanobrien (talk) 07:33, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Location of park photo
I've removed the name of the park on the photo showing an empty bottle on the grass. While the photo may well have been taken at that park, based on the article it could just as easily have been taken at any number of locations, and linking it to a specific site may give the impression that use of Buckfast is endemic to that particular park. OTRS ticket 2012042110007307 Risker (talk) 05:28, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Hatnote on article on Buckie (the town)
I have put a disambiguation hatnote on the article for Buckie pointing to Buckfast Tonic Wine. If you have views on this, please discuss at Talk:Buckie.--A bit iffy (talk) 15:58, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Scotland: Obvious POV of pushing, denial of the facts and WP:COI
Wikipedia is not about the truth. Only what is veriafable. This particular drink is clearly linked to numerous issues in Scotland. Removing referenced details because you don;t like it "John" is a clear violation of numerous rules. What is said is referenced. Therefore removing referenced statement clearly demonstrates that you don't want a WP:NPOV which begs the question why? With all the hoo har on here about "paid" editorships, why are you so determined to down play the problems this brand of drink is causing in Scotland? Wikipedia rules make it clear this site is against WP:CENSORSHIP so why the need to hide the facts? 81.132.174.121 (talk) 12:09, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

WP:SYNTH
Removed this line: "Its high strength (15% ABV/14.8% in the Republic of Ireland), relatively low price and sweetness are characteristics that appeal to under-age drinkers. The reference doesn't mention Buckfast at all; 15% ABV is not "high"; and Buckfast is "relatively expensive". Blackberry Sorbet (talk • contribs) 02:12, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

BIASED to the max
This article is more biased than everything else I have read within the last half year. Somebody is on a crusade against this fashionable drink, unhealthy or not. I don't even like the taste of it, but let us get down to the point. Yesterday it was Teacher's Whiskey, today it is XYZ which the boozers prefer. This is plain ridiculous. The authorities blame the producers instead of blaming lazy parents and an ignorant society for not being able to educate young citizens to be responsible. Blame the car producers for the accidents done with their cars. Good night Britain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:45:491D:7E6:69DA:6FBE:4769:5831 (talk) 23:35, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Lack of coverage on Northern Ireland
Buckie isn't just a Scottish problem! Andy Dingley (talk) 10:03, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

World Buckfast Day
Are there any proper sources for this? If not, obviously we'll need to remove it. --John (talk) 19:52, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes John, editors who aren't just obsessed with stripping out all and any references to a couple of particular newspapers which have clearly offended you in some way don't have a problem with it. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:00, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks Andy for your contribution. Any decent sources around? Let's give it 24 hours or so. --John (talk) 20:09, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

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"notorious for being a high class beverage consumed by...health and safety professionals and structural engineers alike"
The second paragraph of the lede claims "...Buckfast has become notorious for being a high class beverage consumed by the likes of health and safety professionals and structural engineers alike." No source is cited for this claim, but notwithstanding that failing, it is also a nonsensical statement. "Notorious" is pejorative, but "high-class" is generally considered positive, so "notorious for being...high class" is contradictory. And how the editor who added this settled on "health and safety professionals and structural engineers" as two vastly different markets to cite, to demonstrate the breadth of its appeal is beyond me. Unless anyone can offer a persuasive argument for retaining this sentence, I'm going to strike it. Bricology (talk) 07:56, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Swinging
It's all well and good, but I just don't have the energy anymore. 2A02:C7F:8D28:B100:98DB:420E:630D:1124 (talk) 22:53, 30 November 2021 (UTC)