Talk:Carry On Sergeant

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:08, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Grimshaw again?
In the movie Strictly Confidential (film), William Hartnell plays another character named Grimshaw. I havn't seen the movie but is it maybe the same role? --Victory93 (talk) 00:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Origin of the title
I've always assumed that the "Carry On" of the title was deliberately intended as a double meaning – the military one as described in this article, but also a reference to "carry-on" meaning a fuss or commotion, as in the expression, "That was a right carry-on!" The second meaning would obviously fit the subsequent films, which had no military context but plenty of fuss and commotion.

I'm reluctant to add this to the article, though, as it's just a supposition. Does anyone know whether it's correct? Paulwilliam2 (talk) 14:06, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Probably not. This film was not intended as the first in a series, but a standalone film - and it works very well if approached in that manner. There is very little slapstick farce - indeed, the scene involving the accidental discharge of a fire extinguisher sticks out as inconsistent with the rest of the film. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 09:41, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Redrose64. I watched the film this afternoon (should really have done that before I wrote the post :-)) and I see what you mean. Some the comedy is more reminiscent of Dad's Army - all those scenes on the assault course, bayonet practice etc - than the later Carry-Ons. Paulwilliam2 (talk) 21:56, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Authorship
Delderfield "planned" a screenplay but the film title says "Carry on Sergeant by R F Delderfield". This article also says "...Delderfield's script that involved a male ballet troupe being conscripted was turned into a play." The "screenplay" of the film is credited to Norman Hudis "with additional material by John Antobus". However, the article about the film says simply "written by Norman Hudis"

The article about Delderfield says "The first Carry On film, Carry On Sergeant (1958), was based on Delderfield's play The Bull Boys." I have been unable to find any information about that play but the reference to a Delderfield script, although unreferenced, says firmly that a play resulted.

So, I am leaving this information as a query in the hope that someone knows more about the play and relationship to the film, and that someone knows Wikipedia policy on authorship of films. Humphrey Tribble (talk) 05:11, 24 August 2022 (UTC) Screenplay by Norman Hudis, additional material by John Antrobus". -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 11:37, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I've got about five books on Carry On ... films, will check when I can find them (recent house move). -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 14:53, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, as you can tell from the next section, I found them. The most relevant to this question seems to be where several passages are relevant:
 * [by early 1958] a much-rejected film treatment of R.F. Delderfield's The Bull Boys had found its way onto the desk of Peter Rogers. It dealt with the forced enlistment of a ballet dancing team into National Service
 * Peter Rogers saw a distinct possibility in the piece and approached several writers to liven up the antiquated dialogue
 * all round good egg John Antrobus wrote a treatment for a film based on The Bull Boys which led Rogers in the right direction - some of the material remains in the finished film and Antrobus retained an 'additional dialogue' credit. Finally Norman Hudis looked over the script and cut out the inner soul of Delderfield's work, bringing out the working-class ideals and struggles of the squaddies. The ballet dancers are forgotten
 * Does that help? -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 12:26, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It sounds, then, that the way the film is credited is accurate:
 * Delderfield is the creator, and Hudis wrote most of the script, but some of the Antrobus material remains.
 * Therefore, it is “Carry on Sergeant by Delderfield”, Screenplay by Hudis, With additional material by Antrobus.”
 * Thank you, . Humphrey Tribble (talk) 19:29, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The credits show: "Carry On Sergeant by R.F. Delderfield

Cast list
We need to sort out the cast list, people keep adding uncredited roles without sources. As with (virtually?) all other Carry On films, the opening titles give only actors' names, not the parts that they play. I have three books listing actors and roles, but they differ.

lists the following: • Sergeant Grimshaw - William Hartnell

• Charlie Sage - Bob Monkhouse

• Mary - Shirley Eaton

• Captain Potts - Eric Barker

• Nora - Dora Bryan

• Corporal Copping - Bill Owen

• Horace Strong - Kenneth Connor

• Peter Golightly - Charles Hawtrey

• James Bailey - Kenneth Williams

• Miles Heywood - Terence Longden

• Herbert Brown - Norman Rossington

• Captain Clark - Hattie Jacques

• Andy Galloway - Gerald Campion

• First Recruit - Jack Smethurst

• Thirteenth Recruit - Henry Livings

gives more actors, but fewer roles: • William Hartnell - Sergeant Grimshawe

• Bob Monkhouse - Charlie Sage

• Shirley Eaton - Mary

• Eric Barker - Captain Potts

• Dora Bryan - Nora

• Bill Owen - Corporal Copping

• Charles Hawtrey - Peter Golightly

• Kenneth Connor - Horace Strong

• Kenneth Williams - James Bailey

• Terence Longden - Miles Heywood

• Hattie Jacques - Captain Clark (Medical Officer)

• Terry Scott - Sergeant O'Brien Also starred: Note that Gerald Campion is not listed.

gives the most comprehensive list: • Sergeant Grimshawe - William Hartnell

• Charlie Sage - Bob Monkhouse

• Captain Potts - Eric Barker

• Mary Sage - Shirley Eaton

• Norah - Dora Bryan

• Horace Strong - Kenneth Connor

• Peter Golightly - Charles Hawtrey

• James Bailey - Kenneth Williams

• Corp. Bill Copping - Bill Owen

• Miles Heywood - Terence Longdon

• Herbert Brown - Norman Rossington

• Andy Galloway - Gerald Campion

• Captain Clark - Hattie Jacques

• Gun Sergeant - Cyril Chamberlain

• 1st Specialist - Gordon Tanner

• 2nd Specialist - Frank Forsyth

• 3rd Specialist - Basil Dignam

• 4th Specialist - Jack Gatrell

• 5th Specialist - Arnold Diamond

• 6th Specialist - Martin Boddey

• Medical Corporal - Ian Whittaker

• Injured Recruit - Bernard Kay

• Stores Sergeant - Anthony Sagar

• 1st Storeman - Alec Bergonzi

• 2nd Storeman - Graham Stewart

• 3rd Storeman - Alexander Harris

• 4th Storeman - Pat Feeney

• 5th Storeman - Edward Judd

• 6th Storeman - Ronald Clarke

• 7th Storeman - David Williams

• Mr Sage - Martin Wyldeck

• Mary's Mum - Helen Goss

• Sgt Paddy O'Brien - Terry Scott

• Sgt Matthews - John Mathews

• Sgt Russell - Ed Devereaux

• Sheila - Leigh Madison Recruits:

None of these list Benny Lee, so that is definitely one entry that should be removed. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 10:37, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Charles Hawtrey, Kenneth Connor, Kenneth Williams, Terence Longdon, Norman Rossington, Gerald Campion, Hattie Jacques, Cyril Chamberlain, Arnold Diamond, Gordon Tanner, Martin Boddey, Frank Forsyth, Ian Whittaker, Basil Dignam, Anthony Sagar, John Gatrell, Alec Bregonzi, Graham Stewart, Alexander Harris, Pat Feeney, Terry Scott, Edward Judd, John Matthews, Ronald Clarke, Edward Devereaux, David Williams, Leigh Madison, Bernard Kay, Jack Smethurst, Haydn Ward, Brian Jackson, Graydon Gould, Don McCorkindale, Jeremy Dempster, Leon Eagles, Terry Dickenson, Malcolm Webster, Henry Livings, Patrick Durkin, Derek Martinus, James Villiers, Michael Hunt and Bob Monkhouse". Some of these are variant spellings of what is shown in the books: Terence Longden/Longdon; Jack/John Gatrell; Alec Bergonzi/Bregonzi; John Mathews/Matthews; Ed/Edward Devereaux. Derek Martinus is not listed in any of the books; and the film credits do not list Martin Wyldeck, Helen Goss or Benny Lee. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 12:47, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The article about Benny Lee says “Carry On Sergeant (1958; uncredited)”. The Internet movie database, which was very reliable in its pre-commercial days, supports this:  “Carry on Sergeant   Recruit (uncredited)”. Since he is uncredited, he wouldn’t have been included in any of the books. (I note that none of the books gives a list of the recruits.)
 * I suppose the only way to resolve this once and for all is for someone who would recognize Lee instantly–unfortunately, his mother isn’t available–to watch the film and grab a screenshot, which could then be added to the article about Benny Lee as ongoing evidence (or not). If he is there he ought to be in the early scenes of the recruits marching and being met by Sergeant Grimshawe in the barracks.
 * (A truly obsessive person could dig for the pay records of the film. It is also barely possible that someone who played a recruit is still alive. I wonder if real soldiers were used.) Humphrey Tribble (talk) 19:58, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * PS
 * IMDB says “View agent, publicist, legal and company contact details on IMDbPro”. Does anyone have access? Humphrey Tribble (talk) 20:01, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * IIRC the film credits match Rigelsford but without the character names, I need to borrow my mother's DVD to be certain. I note that none of the books gives a list of the recruits - er, Ross does: they are the 14 names listed after Leigh Madison. Including these, more than two-thirds of the actors listed by Ross are not credited in the film. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 22:23, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The credited cast list is quite long, it reads: "Starring William Hartnell, Shirley Eaton, Eric Barker, Dora Bryan, Bill Owen,