Talk:Cellulite

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 February 2021 and 28 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jessica.jfrancis.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 17:03, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Definition is subjective and is politically biased
"Cellulite describes a common paraphysiological cosmetic problem that is claimed to occur in most women" I appreciate the good will of those contributing/writing this article, however I cannot accept the word 'probem' as part of the definition of cellulite. There is no objective reason why this should be considered a problem, unless the person with cellulite believes so. It's like saying that having big ears or a small penis is categorically a 'problem'. Politics starts with language, and I consider that we should be very careful when choosing the words. I don't feel qualified as to contribute to this article, but I would very much apreciate if you keep my change of 'problem' for 'condition' or other similar term. Many thanks for your hard work on cats 80.195.225.186 (talk) 12:10, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It doesn't say problem anymore. Asarelah (talk) 03:13, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

men vs women
Now, I don't know if this is true or not, but it's something i was told...somewhere. anyway, the story goes like this: men and women have different interconnecting tissues under their skin. womens is "hatched" if you will, wheras mens is more of a "crosshatch" sort of mesh. it is because of this finer mesh that the mens tissues have that fat can't pop through from underneath. this isn't mentioned in the article (so far as i can see) but it would be good if someone could find a reference and include it. dreamcatcher23 (talk) 02:27, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

perhaps i'm not alone in this belief! see http://www.drlenkravitz.com/Articles/cellulite.html - specifically at the bottom, the final diagram. dreamcatcher23 (talk) 02:29, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

As a medical student, I have never in my life heard this sort of nonsense. This entire article doesn't seem terribly scientific to me and feels an awful lot like popular fashionable notions trying to pass as science. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.69.211.109 (talk) 23:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Exercise
This page should have a section on exercise and how that affects or gets rid of cellulite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sp0 (talk • contribs) 02:43, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Scientific Literature
I just spent some time completely rewriting this article. I read two review articles from the scientific literature, and used one of them as the basis for my version of this article.

Please help me with spelling, and copy editing. Thank you.

Nwbeeson 18:32, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Treatment
Cellulite is a normal secondary sexual characteristic, just as breasts, pubic hair, underarm hair, wide hips, and narrow waists are. And as with any characteristic, the amplitude of the characteristic is a complex interplay of genetics and environment (including lifestyle choices). In most women cellulite is not a problem and should be accepted. But just as with any characteristic, cellulite does range from barely noticeable, to horribly disfiguring. And just as with breasts women are painfully aware of their cellulite. So for some women medical intervention is indicated. However at this time there is no proven intervention which is effective.

Nwbeeson 18:32, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

>horribly disfiguring

According to whom?

General Reference Question
I would like to ask an experienced Wiki-editor how to handle review articles. In this case I found two review articles:

Ana Beatris R Rossi, André Luiz Vergnanini; Cellulite: a review; Journal of the European Academy of Dermatology and Venereology; 14 (4), 251–262, (2000).

Draelos ZD, Marenus KD; Cellulite. Etiology and purported treatment. Dermatol Surg.; 23(12),1177-81 (1997).

I cited the first a dozen times. But this seems excessive. Is there some Wikipedia standard for this situation? Did I do it correctly?

Nwbeeson 18:32, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Treatment
hey,

how would one get rid of cellulite


 * Look in any women's mag. If you had the real answer, you'd be trillionaire languishing in your seaside mansion in the Caribbean. JFW | T@lk  19:08, 24 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I just edited this article citing a review of the scientific literature which was written in 2000. At that time there were no treatements that were effective. Some help was available for the worst cases, but these treatments needed to be ongoing (repeated often), and are only partially effective. You need to see a physician.


 * It is certain that none of the over-the-counter remedies have any effect.
 * Nwbeeson 18:32, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

The 'therapy' section currently says "The most beneficial therapy is to control lifestyle factors. Controlling stress and anxiety are of considerable benefit." No support is offered for this claim, and it contradicts the previous: "Numerous therapies have been tried. There are no published reports in the scientific literature showing that any [cellulite] therapies work." Delete? 124.170.238.154 (talk) 00:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree - delete, because a) no references and b) "lifestyle factors" is irritatingly nonspecific. Uncat (talk) 06:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The section on treatment is pure pseudoscience, with almost no references to back it up. Reading through it, it seems like a significant portion has been lifted word for word from a website promoting anti-cellulite treatments. Unless someone can produce some decent certifications, I'm going to rip out the entire section and rewrite it with decent peer-reviewed citations rather than pop-scientific mumbo jumbo. JulesVerne 15:46, 6 March 2009 (GMT)

What?!
"Cellulite describes dimpling of skin, caused by the protrusion of subcutaneous fat into the dermis creating an undulating dermal-subcutaneous fat junction adipose tissue."

Who the hell understands that?! 65.172.9.205 00:14, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Me


 * Most people with an IQ over 10


 * Hey, why are you crapping here!?--Edmundkh 17:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't have any special knowledge in medicine, but that sentence doesn't even seem grammatically correct. Specifically "dermal-subcutaneous fat junction adipose tissue". This is just a string of nouns.


 * That was truly a bad sentence. No doubt about it. I removed it when I rewrote the article today.
 * Nwbeeson 18:32, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Take out the word 'fat', and it seems to be a fairly useful description. Dermal-subcutaneous junction - tells you where the abnormality is (between the dermis and the subcutaneous layers), and adipose tissue tells you specifically which types of cells comprise the abnormality.  I haven't read the review articles, though, so I don't know if this is correct.  I popped into the discussion pages, though, because I was looking precisely for this type of information, which is otherwise lacking in the current version.
 * Bdmartens 10:13 16 April 2009 (PST)

No offense, but this isn't the simple English wikipedia. Removing a correct statement that scientifically explains the situation because you don't understand it is not a valid reason.24.190.34.219 (talk) 03:59, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Nor is this specialized medical science wikipedia. Being scientifically correct is not the same as being useful.  24.16.164.87 (talk) 01:55, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Cellulite
I have been a consistent member of a gym for about 2 1/2 years now. I have went from 190 lbs to 130. I have a little bitof cellulite on my thighs. Does anyone have any idea what I can do to get rid of this? (The previous unsigned comment was left by SScott)

There are some expensive treatments you can take up in order to get rid of the "little bit". One's being tested by the FDA and will be several hundred a pop. Just my opinion, but why not save the money for something really long lasting - like a down payment on a house or retirement investments? I find it hard to understand why so many of my contemporaries worry themselves into an early grave over minute imperfections. This article could be improved by adding that cellulite is a multi-million dollar industry that pathologizes the condition, even though it's experienced by a majority of women. (Me too. So what? I'm not going to lose sleep over some dimples on my ass.) With the possible exception of modeling careers and romances with exceptionally shallow people, having a minor physical imperfection doesn't diminish your chances for a happy life. Enjoy your health! Noirdame 11:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Cellulite is just a little fat. The best way to try to get rid of it is to do certain exercises that focus on the region with the cellulite. I heard that another approach is to rub caffeine (coffee) into the region where it appears (don't know if it works). Anyway, this article really needs references. Lulurascal 05:27, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I just read the scientific literature on cellulite, which states that:
 * cellulite is a normal secondary sexual charateristic (just like breasts);
 * it is the response of under-the-skin fat to normal female hormones;
 * it varies from woman to woman in its magnitude; and
 * there is no treatment for it.
 * You can exercise till doomsday and it will not remove cellulite.
 * If there were an effective treatment everyone would know about it, and the person who developed it would be richer than Billy Gates.
 * Nwbeeson 18:40, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * If there were an effective treatment everyone would know about it, and the person who developed it would be richer than Billy Gates.
 * Nwbeeson 18:40, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Nwbeeson 18:40, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Nwbeeson 18:40, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Photo
I have to say it would be considerably more informative to have a photograph of actual cellulite than a metaphorical advert. --MarkSteward 22:22, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. The ad, while interesting, is hardly informative.  A-giau 10:14, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Is there an explanation for cellulite being gender-specific? - Sikon 19:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the general thinking about cellulite being gender-specific relates to hormonal levels...they believe hormones may pay a large part in cellulite development...as to the exact reasoning I'm afraid I don't know - anyone?

YUCK!! Eee... that photo is so f***ing horrible... so scary... --Edmundkh

Yah!!!!! I do not like that photo!!!!!! D:> I wonder how it felt!!!!

17:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I hate to see that stinking photo!!!! --Edmundkh 15:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Picture
This needs a real picture for people who don't know what it looks like; not a surreal advertisement. — Omegatron 01:27, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

That scary photo must be removed!! It's not just metaphoric, and it's horrible... --Edmundkh 17:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I wanna remove that ugly ads... :-@ --Edmundkh 15:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I think a few instructive and tasteful images to illustrate the condition are warranted. – Kaihsu 19:14, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

The image appears to be of a male - given the gender trend with cellulite, is it possible to find a picture of a female? 124.170.238.154 (talk) 00:32, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

News
I'm currently watching the news. They are claiming that there is an government approved drug stopping/lessining cellulite. --Yancyfry jr 03:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a product called, Accent. It uses Radio Waves to destroy cellulite. I found out it is not government approved, but is expected to be later on this summer.

Fat vs. Cellulite
"Cellulite has been found to be indistinguishable from ordinary fat in every medical and scientific test. It is not proven whether any cosmetic lotion, massager or pills can reduce/increase cellulite versus ordinary fat".

Em if it's indistingushable from ordinary fat then.. em it's just fat isn't it? (my understanding of the common use of the term cellulite in modern times is due to clever marketing to avoid using the word fat with consumer products).

--Charlesknight 21:10, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Lypossage?
Anyone heard of this massage modality? There seems to be some research that shows a measureable decrease in body dimension and a decrease in the appearance of cellulite after undergoing a 6 week/18 session Lypossage treatment. To read the research, check out: http://www.lypossage.net/1011948.html

I'm not advertising the treatments. I'm just linking to research done on cellulite reduction.


 * The link posted is dead. It's questionable that it contained anything useful, scientifically, since it linked to a private lypossage business.  A search on PubMed resulted in "Your search for lypossage retrieved no results."  I could find absolutely no scientific evidence for the efficacy of lypossage, although the word science or science-based is often mentioned in the marketing. 50.192.64.141 (talk) 21:48, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

The only way?
"The only effective way to reduce cellulite is the same one which reduces ordinary fat, namely exercise."...only exercise? I dont think so! What about watching your diet? less carbs less fat, less chocolate chunk icecream? Losing weight that would help! Reducing your body fat and reduce your cellulite! Of course excercise is an important component of losing weight, but it is not the only way.

You can exercise all you want, diet all you want, you'll still have cellulite. Lulurascal 05:30, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Not related to being overweight?
One sentence states that cellulite is not related to being overweight. Then later another says losing weight is an effective means of getting rid of it. Something is wrong here.

From personal experience I know weight issues and cellulite are related. Maybe rephrase the sentence, saying that although cellulite can be found in all body types, its more commonly found in people with weight issues. I know, not very politically correct, but who cares really.


 * I'm not quite sure, but I think that body fat also triggers the production of estrogen, which the article states to be linked. --Extremophile (talk) 05:39, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Prevalence
A lot of sites like the BBC health website say about 80% of women say they have visible cellulite, but I don't have references for the survey they got this from. Its not something you actually see in films or magazines though - unless its a paparazzi shot of a celebrity's real backside at the beach. Although completely harmless and very widespread, its considered so offensive that people have to have body doubles rather than display it in public.

Can I also add that I find it a little "PC" that the article starts off by exclaiming it occurs in both men and women. Well yeah, so does breast cancer. Nevertheless, by not mentioning the particular concern cellulite poses for women, both the higher prevelance (sp?) and the larger cosmetic concern, the intro to this article is misleading and does a disservice —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.237.226.100 (talk) 22:58, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Formation of cellulite
Erm... I wonder how is cellulite actually formed. I'm a male, I don't know much about woman's physical problem. Do all fat women have cellulite!? Actually, I'm trying to write a novel about a teenage girl, and I would like to add in the cellulite issue in my novel... by anonymous —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Edmundkh (talk • contribs) 17:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

No. unsigned

Cellulite is not an issue of fat women. It's an issue with most women - fat, thin, whatever. Lulurascal 05:42, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Cellulite is not an "issue" it is a part of puberty just like growing pubic hair and growing breasts.


 * Finally, someone with some sense. CerealBabyMilk 04:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

In History
What record is there of cellulite in history? This would be interesting to know and it could add to the article. Munci (talk) 22:30, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Victorian Age Nude Paintings; http://www.cellulite.md/history —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.244.57 (talk) 19:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Bad picture/cartoon
Can someone upload a humanoid picture of what cellulite is, one with high resolution so people can also see the details of the condition close up. If no one can find 1, please tell me and I will have to take a picture of my old auntys legs and upload them here.--93.97.181.187 (talk) 11:34, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Sourcing
I've asked Wikiproject Medicine for help in bringing this up to WP:MEDRS standard. At the moment it's a dustbin of anon factoids, many contributed with clear commercial intent. 86.161.33.63 (talk) 03:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you, yes mostly uncited speculation. The Rossi article from 9 years ago is heavily cited, but it is not freely available for us to comment on. However the "Classification" section into its different grades is not something that I am aware others have found worth using - unless anyone can point to the contray, then the grading list should be removed. David Ruben Talk 02:10, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

It's simply pathetic...
...that people waste their time worrying about imaginary problems like this while they could be out in the real world dealing with real ones. Seriously. It's just fat, people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.54.213.67 (talk) 11:48, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Physical and mechanical methods?
The second paragraph of the "Physical and mechanical methods" describes spanking, rubbing and buttock clenching at a treatment for Cellulite. Is this description of "lymphatic drainage massage" for real or just a joke?

Also, this section refers to "Grade" levels assigned to degrees of cellulite, but no definition/description of Grades are given in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.237.206.116 (talk) 15:01, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Prevention
Perhaps this article should have a section "Prevention" Gantuya eng (talk) 04:05, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

How about the basics?
This article doesn't even explain what cellulite IS. It presumes you know it's fat. If you think I'm mistaken, read the whole thing again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.253.203 (talk) 14:46, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Spoiler Alert
The word cellulite first appeared in publication in an issue of Vogue. There is no scientific basis for it, there is no "miracle cure," no "treatment;" it is in fact a buzzword. For fat.

Go run some damn laps and eat a salad (sans dressing). 98.145.223.166 (talk) 22:12, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, cellulite is fat, but running laps and eating salads doesn't cure it, otherwise 90% of women wouldn't have it.

roastedpepper 05:07, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Healthy vs. Unhealthy Appears to be A False Dichotomy
The image, courtesy of Body Wraps, appears to be very useful and accurate with the exception of its labeling. If, as the article indicates, 80-90% of women have cellulite and it is the "normal condition of many women", the drawing's description of the cellulite-possessing skin as "Unhealthy" is misleading at best if not plain wrong. The site from whence the image comes appears to be of questionable scientific merit but if the image is legitimately on WP it must be in the public domain and, thus, someone with the skills could excise the offending words. Is there any disagreement that, barring significant changes to the article, the words "Healthy" and "Unhealthy" should be removed from the image? Czrisher (talk) 01:50, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Accessibility of the general public
Most of the information in the article is based on secondary sources and does not contain many subjective opinions. Thus, makes it more reliable. However, many scientific/ professional terms such as extracellular matrix, prolactin etc. are used when writing this article. Hence, makes it difficult for people who are not as familiar with cellulite/ Gynoid fat to understand. The accessibility of the general public is relatively low. Furthermore, more information or researches could be added to explain thoroughly how each factor can contribute to the presence of cellulite. Psunbf (talk) 23:36, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Repetition
The sentence 'Its existence as a real disorder has been challenged' appears in two successive sections, with references to the same footnote 11. I imagine this wasn't supposed to happen.213.127.210.95 (talk) 14:34, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * You are correct. I have fixed it. thanks.MartinezMD (talk) 14:44, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:21, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Dimpled appearance of cellulite.jpg

Vacuactivus
I saw a link https://vacuactivus.com/cryotherapy-and-weight-loss-equipment/ to weight lostt equipment and it is correlated to Cellulite article, but it was removed as not medical reliable source. It's true I think. 47.147.81.231 (talk) 08:51, 24 October 2022 (UTC)


 * See WP:MEDRS. MartinezMD (talk) 17:04, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Treatment? Is this a disease?
From what I could understand of the text cellulite is not a disease. It is a merely aesthetical matter, and labelled under plastic surgery. I believe 'removal' for example would be a better heading for the section currently labeled 'treatment'. A review of this whole article by someone with a medical background would definitely be welcome. 188.83.12.71 (talk) 11:56, 1 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your question, I suspect something like "Cosmetic procedure" might meet with your approval. The thing is, our job as editors is to reflect what the sources say, and in that section the first citation is titled "A modern approach to the treatment of cellulite" so treatment seems to be the appropriate terminology most likely to maintain consensus. CV9933 (talk) 18:32, 1 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hemangiomas aren't diseases yet can be "treated". Treatment does not necessarily mean an attempt to cure an illness, it can also mean to alter or improve something eg hair treatments, lawn treatments, waterproofing treatments, . I see no reason to change the terminology. MartinezMD (talk) 20:09, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Ionithermie
Can you please explain why you reverted my edit ? I was trying to deorphan ionithermie. I understand that it's been described as an alternative medicine/psuedoscientific and the first source I used here is not great, but the second source along with the others I added in the ionithermie article seem like WP:MEDRS to me. I am fine if we mention in article that it's not effective, from what I read I don't think any of these treatments listed are, but I can't find MEDRS sources explicitly saying that, and it seems common enough in spas to at least mention. Darcyisvery cute (talk) 03:03, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I'd be alright including it as a single mention as not being effective. I do not want the article to appear to endorse a failed therapy as you bring up was described as pseudoscience. MartinezMD (talk) 03:18, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Is it okay now? The Coleman citation is the only one I have saying it is ineffective. If you can find others you can add them, but google scholar doesn't turn up much. Also keep in mind this might have the effect of making the other therapies seem efficacious, which again, I seriously doubt. Darcyisvery cute  (talk) 03:35, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I made a further edit to reduce its weight in the article. MartinezMD (talk) 06:54, 26 December 2023 (UTC)