Talk:Chagatai language

= Comments =

Extinct?
What are the (presumably not extinct?) "discrete languages" mentioned, and are they distinct enough to create a language barrier to the people involved? -- WormRunner

A long time ago I asked for a source for the statement that the last speaker died in the 1990s, and none has been provided. I cannot believe that there were still native speakers of classical Chagatay in the twentieth century: might it be a reference to Teke Turkmen, also sometimes known as "Chagatay"? I am therefore going to delete this statement. If anyone finds a source, they can reinstate it. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 16:16, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Family
of course it's mongolian language. Tsagaadai(old version Chagatai) was a Mongolian. in hystory of Mongolia at that time wasnt anyword turk. all ethnic groups had their names, but not still turk. turk was 1 time after huns there & go way to west after fight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.182.44.231 (talk) 23:42, 13 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter who was what. This is about the language itself, and what matters there is what the language itself was like. This one was like Turkish, not Mongolian. 83.253.228.202 (talk) 01:38, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Turkic, not Turkish. Turkish is the turkic language spoken in Anatolia today.50.111.46.18 (talk) 12:12, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Chagatai and Chagatay
What is the distinction (is there as distinction?) between Chagatai and Chagatay? I see that the latter appears to include the former in the Karluk branch of the Turkic language family according to the Infobox. TonySever (talk) 17:01, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Chagatai dictionaries and manuscript
Chagatai-French Dictionaries

Dictionnaire turk-oriental By Abel Jean B.M.M. Pavet de Courteille

https://archive.org/details/dictionnairetur00courgoog

http://books.google.com/books?id=Zt8GAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://archive.org/details/dictionnairetur01courgoog

http://books.google.com/books?id=d6UCAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://archive.org/details/dictionnairetur02courgoog

http://books.google.com/books?id=wamJAF5x50UC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Name of uyghur language debate during the 19th century
See Uyghur_people and Uyghur_language for context over the naming debate. The Uyghur themselves did not call themselves nor their language as "Uyghur", but some foreign European and Russians applied the "Uyghur" name to them in the 19th century, and in the 20th century the Soviet Union managed to impose the name "Uyghur" and get the Uyghurs themselves to use the name for their language and ethnic group through their puppet Sheng Shicai. The modern Uyghur language is descended from Chagatai language.

http://books.google.com/books?id=oWj9NreO9zYC&pg=PA172#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=oWj9NreO9zYC&pg=PA173#v=onepage&q&f=false

A sketch of the Turki language by Robert Shaw

"In the Turkish of Kashghar and Yarkand (which some European linguists have called Uighur, a name unknown to the inhabitants of those towns, who know their tongue simply as Turki), we can obtain a glimpse backwards at a state of the language when the noun (which in Western Turkish is almost inflected) was but a rude block, labelled if necessary by attaching other nouns, &c, to show its relation to the..."

http://books.google.com/books?id=dw7gAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Vj1bAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZT1bAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=oWj9NreO9zYC&pg=PA9#v=onepage&q&f=false

Chagatai manuscript
https://archive.org/details/mirdjnmehpublip00navogoog

http://books.google.com/books?id=gr0MSY32LOwC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://archive.org/details/SharahAlAqeedaAlKhalisaciatayTurkish

06:44, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Correct Arab/Persian/Osmanic spelling
All spelling as given by ref. [2] is correct -  but I cannot see any reference for the spelling (and associated transcription) "جغتای / Jaghatay". Thus, I think: Regarding all the examples given by ref. [2] together with today's Turkish form "Çağatay", the one correct Arab/Persian/Osmannic spelling is "چغتای". DocumentReader (talk) 17:38, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Move?
It seem like Chagatay is more used than Chagatai. Can anyone search it up on ngrams? Beshogur (talk) 10:20, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Chagatai Language
Baburnama page 207, Moghuli (chagatai) language was spoken amongst Hazaras and nikudaris Elyas719 (talk) 18:50, 26 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Please read my edit summary. HistoryofIran (talk) 18:56, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Encoding of Yeh
In the table of Chagatai language, Yeh is encoded in several different ways:

initial form: as U+FEF3 ARABIC LETTER YEH INITIAL FORM

medial form: as U+FEF4 ARABIC LETTER YEH MEDIAL FORM

final form: as U+FEF0 ARABIC LETTER ALEF MAKSURA FINAL FORM

isolated form: as U+FEEF ARABIC LETTER ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM

These encodings seem all to be problematic:

1. These characters from Unicode’s Arabic Presentation Forms-B U+FE70-FEFF should not be used. “Instead of these, letters from the Arabic block (U+0600..U+06FF) should be used for interchange.” (The Unicode® Standard 15.0 – Core Specification, p. 400)

2. In the Chagatai orthography, Yeh is used both to indicate consonantal /j/ (“y”) and the vowels /e/ and /i/. The use of both Arabic Alef maksura and Arabic Yeh for what should be one and the same abstract character is highly questionable.

I propose using U+06CC ARABIC LETTER FARSI YEH exclusively: not only has this character the correct semantics (and I have no doubt the familiar Persian letter was ‘borrowed’ for Chagatai, not the much more remote Arabic forms), but it also exhibits the correct shaping behaviour, retaining the two horizontal dots in initial and medial positions, while omitting them in final and isolated positions.

The rendering of initial, medial and final forms can be triggered by adding Zero Width Joiner characters (U+200D) at the appropriate places. This should probably done for all other initial, medial and final forms in the table as well.

What do you all think about this? Pimrietbroek (talk) 21:37, 4 January 2024 (UTC)