Talk:Charles Francis Adams Jr.

Untitled
C. F. Adams Jr. was awarded the honorary degree of Doctor in Letters at Oxford University on November 4th 1914. Ref: Letter of William Osler in 'The Life of Sir William Osler' by Harvey Cushing (1925), Vol II pp. 381-382.

Charles Francis Adams, Jr. made an observation than which none is more profound in all of American history: "The destinies of nations are, perhaps, very much more decided in the workshops of mechanics than in the councils of princes." --The Railroad System, Ch I., "The Era of Change."

What Adams means is that in the 1830's the country was very much in danger of being torn apart by internal jealousies and rivalries when railroads came along and held it together.Ishmael Dott (talk) 00:20, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

It is not desirous to place women's natal surnames in brackets, as these were their actual names, at least prior to marriage. Modern genealogical practice is to use their natal names without embellishment, or revert to the form "Mrs ... married-surname". I am changing all such occurrences in this article. -dav4is (talk) 18:22, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Military service
'He was mustered out of service on September 1, 1864. On September 8, 1864 he was commissioned as the lieutenant colonel of the 5th Massachusetts Cavalry...'

Why was he mustered out of service, in advance of being re-commissioned? Valetude (talk) 05:39, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * His regiment was mustered out after 3 years of service and was reformed as a battalion. GELongstreet (talk) 19:52, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Requested move April 4, 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was no consensus, reverting to the previously stable title. While there isn't consensus either way in this discussion, I think the nominator's assessment is essentially correct: it was moved as a technical request before the relevant guideline was settled, and given that the guideline now does not support the move (though neither does it proscribe it), I think it best to return to the status quo ante. Ideally, the technical move should've been reverted and then an RM started, but things don't always happen so neatly. --BDD (talk) 19:12, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Charles Francis Adams Jr. → Charles Francis Adams, Jr. – Article was moved recently without consensus or any discussion at all. A number of reliable sources use the comma (see 1, 2, and 3, for example). --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 06:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC) Calidum T&#124;C 05:05, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Comment – see relevant guideline at WP:JR, and discussion establishing current consensus at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biographies.


 * Oppose – most modern guides and our own manual of style WP:JR say the common is not necessary, and causes problems because people often omit the matching comma after Jr., causing grammatical dissonance. And quite a few good sources, like this one do omit the comma, too, so saying that a number use it says nothing.  We don't usually let sources vote on our style; we have central guidance instead, and ours has suggested since 2009 to omit the comma per modern usage.  Dicklyon (talk) 05:53, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Timeout. Can we hold off on Jr. RMs until the guidance at WP:JR is a bit more settled? The above RfC is currently under review at WP:AN, and a further RfC is probable upon the conclusion of that review. If not, then support reverting this bold move per WP:BRD and substantively per this Google Books search, in which the comma version predominates. Dohn joe (talk) 02:27, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * By the way, your book search also shows that the majority of books in the last 20 years omit the comma. It's hardly radical to do so, and nobody think it amounts to changing a name.  Dicklyon (talk) 02:44, 5 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Support per common name (in case I don't get back to this page and because it was relisted on April 17). The comma is part of a person's name (see Martin Luther King Jr. who, commaless, would go throughout eternity with an incorrect comma carved into his tombstone). Randy Kryn 10:14 17 April, 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Dicklyon; per Dohn joe, it would also be hasty to revert when the new RfC will, in all probability, affirm that the commas should be omitted. —sroc &#x1F4AC; 20:59, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
 * That doesn't appear to be the case anymore. Besides, as an undiscussed move this should revert back to the "commaed" title if no consensus is reached here. Calidum T&#124;C 03:49, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
 * And the RFC just closed with consenus to allow/disallow commas as long as an article is internally consistent . Because of that, and because there was a never a consenus to move to the title without the comma, this should be moved back. Calidum T&#124;C 03:04, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.