Talk:Cherokee Mental Health Institute

Untitled
I put this information here to seperate the MHI from the town.

The MHI has had numerous proven instances of abusing patients of all ages through various means, including but not limited to, excessive use of force in restraining patients, unneeded use of restraints, unneeded use of jail cell like seclusion rooms, physical and sexual abuse and abuse through to overuse of various drugs. - This is a direct observation made and is true.
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by RBLakes (talk • contribs) 06:39, 29 September 2006


 * Of course if multiple such serious allegations true, then should be mentioned. The problem is that this is an encyclopaedia which requires that all facts can be WP:CITEd from WP:Reliable sources in order to WP:VERIFY. Personal observation is not a "reliable source" and counts as original research under the {{WP:No original research]] policy. Following well-publicised complaints in America in the last year, wikipedia is increasing vigilant about uncited claims that might be seen as slanderous. So whether or not a claim is true (and I have no reason not to personally believe you), as an encyclopaedia, wikipedia must quote from a suitable attributable source. Failure to do so is liable to have all relevant material removed and action taken on those who repeatedly flout this and endanger wikipedia to the risk of complaint & litigation. So please RBLakes, find and provide reports (easiest and best links probably that of a national newspaper) - if needed, I'm more than happy to format the citation and insert as a cite.php WP:FOOTNOTES for you if you need help with this.David Ruben {{sup| Talk }} 15:23, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

David, You certainly don't understand The United States very well or its laws. Here in The United States, a goverment agency can NOT file a lawsuit against a citizen for slander or liable. The Cherokee Mental Health Institute is a state run government agency, with a chain of command that is only 2 steps removed from the governor of Iowa. Second, "genius" there isn't going to be any "national" news coverage of a small time operation in the middle of the country, additionally by law cameras, tape recorders, and the like are banned from the facility and the employees therein are prevented by law from discussing who is there or anything about them. It is even illegal for a patients chart to refer to another patient by name. How the hell do you expect a reporter to get a story without a name, a description of the account, or anything else. Needless to say though, the story has been covered by WHO-TV 13 in Des Moines, Iowa and The Des Moines Register about a 13 year old boy who was abused at the facility, in 2000. The boy was taped by his lawyer who illegally smuggled in a video recorder.
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by RBLakes (talk • contribs) 16:45, 3 October 2006


 * Hmmm, tricky then to cite a source... I see you therefore dropped the paragraph. A local paper would do I suppose (plug in reporter, title, date etc into Template:cite news), but probably unlikely it would have any online archive for anyone else to access if they should wish to confirm/read further; of course online access is not a requirement.
 * I could not find any suitable page for a quick Google search, trying to use the institute's name, "13" and "abused" just brings up their treatment programme for people with 'substance abuse' (the 13 just fixes on page 13 of various reports, not some one being aged 13). "Cherokee Mental Health Institute" "abuse" "allegation" just brings up various committee/state documents as to what policy is with regard to claims of abuse, not actual claims... David Ruben {{sup| Talk }} 01:45, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * This page had a number of factual errors. Some of the information came from articles in the Des Moines Register in 2001 which pertained to all nine institutions run by the Iowa Department of Human Serives.  Four of these are mental hospitals, like Cherokee.  The quotes by patients are not those of patients from the Cherokee MHI, nor were they purported to be by the Register.  The article contains a number of verifiably inaccurate dates and other historical inaccuracies.  It is not appropriate that a Wikipedia article should exist solely to allow an individual with a personal grievance to slander another person or organization.  I have changed the article now for the second time to remove the inaccuracies and slanderous statements, but obviously it will soon be reverted again.  As such I will request that the article be deleted.Toastedzergling 19:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

-Special note: A goverment organization can not be slandered by law. RBLakes 00:01, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Further editing intentions
The United States goverment, an agency thereof, a State goverment or an agency thereof can not be slandered under the law that pertains to slader and libel. The Cherokee Mental Health Institute is a goverment agency, reporting to and under the authority of the Iowa Department Of Human Services (executive branch). I'm going to work to improve this article to include the facts about it, the abusive restraints practices, the illegal use of chemical restraints, the poor living conditions of the patients, and abusive practices of state employees. Effort will be made to include sources such as the Des Moines Register report (which did not exclude Cherokee or it's patients). Let the employee hide behind "confidentiality" laws which makes reporting and discovering abuse and conditions in the MHI extremly hard to impossible, we will just work harder and longer, like we have done for years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 23:35, 3 March 2007 (talk • contribs) RBLakes


 * RBLAkes, please follow policy and sign talk page postings. Also convention is to add new threads to bottom of talk pages. Fine that you state your intentions as to what you feel the article lacks. Whilst you refer to protection against slander, remember wikipedia is not a soapbox, nor somewhere to actually carry out any form of arguing or debate. As just an encyclopaedia, we must only report in a NPOV manner on thrid party notable opinions or facts, verifying by providing citations from reliable sources... David Ruben Talk 14:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Dave - It's not up to you. RBLakes 00:01, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * True - the policies and guidelines linked above are accepted community-wide, and editors do need to follow the Five pillars. David Ruben Talk 01:37, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Unsources, heavily editorializing, probably copyvio
This material is probably a copy of some pamphlet or local history -- references to "here" and so on. In any event, blanket statements about patients not being treated as human and so on need sourcing. We all know awful things happened in such places, but honest remembrance of past wrongs requires careful sourcing, not sweeping dramatic statements. I have removed the most obviously inappropriate material. The earlier discussions about slander and so on have nothing to do with anything. EEng (talk) 20:22, 6 August 2010 (UTC)