Talk:Christian Social Union in Bavaria

Name

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the debate was move. &mdash; Nightstallion (?) 09:20, 25 January 2006 (UTC) According to their own website, the party is called "of" Bavaria, not "in" Bavaria. . Gryffindor 01:08, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That is odd that they would mistranslate their own name "Christlich-Soziale Union in Bayern". Could we just move the article to Christian Social Union instead? Kusma (討論) 14:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think that the party would not know what their own name in English would be. But we can also move it to Christian Social Union, but I just want to have it as correct as possible, therefore the link to the party's homepage where it says they are the Christian Social Union of Bavaria. Gryffindor  16:21, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I just found the CSU's behaviour odd. Support your move proposal now (after thinking a bit more). Many usages of the "in" name on Google seem to come from Wikipedia mirrors anyway. The German wikipedia uses the full title, so we should use the "official full English title" as well. Kusma (討論) 17:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

I removed "(only in 1957 it was running in the Saarland too)" that was added by Braunbaer. According to www.csu.de the "CSU" that existed in the Saarland from 1955 to 1959 was created independently and without the approval of the Bavarian one. So the CSU wasn't ever running outside Bavaria. djmutex 07:38 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

The CSU in 1957 was running as one party in Bavaria and the Saarland, and got two seats in Saarland and according to the Electoral Law, it had to fight (as one party) with the qualifing threshold of 5% (of Germany, not only a country) or the three constituencies. In the Saarland less than 5% of the Germans are living, so there were no chances for a Saar-only-party. The Saar-CSU was the Rest of the former CVP of the Saarland.

It should be mentioned, that 1957 was the first federal election in the Saarland, after the "little" reunification with (West)Germany. The CVP was against this unification and for an independant Saar. The CSU in Saarland merged with the CDU later.

The "created independently" is no great fact, because most of the Parties were created independently in the federal states and merging later. The CSU in Bavaria did not merge with the other C-Parties and the Saar Parties couldn't because Saarland did not belong to West-Germany.

To increase the confusion, there was a small Party named CSU in Saarland before the unification, with no real influence and independent with the Bavarians (merging with the CVP or dissolving, I don't know).

I don't know, why csu.de ignores this fact, of course the history of the Saar-CSU is an other history than the Bavarian CSU (except this one-time running together), but the CSU as a Germany Party was running 1957 in the Saarland (first and last time against the CDU) too. --Braunbaer 16:08 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * Interesting. You have a source for all this? djmutex 16:35 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * http://www.aicgs.org/wahlen/saarland.shtml (Electoral Result: 21% in Saarland)
 * http://home.arcor.de/gozer/wahlen/parteien.html "bei Wahlen kandidiert die CSU nur in Bayern (bei der Bundestagswahl 1957 auch im Saarland)"
 * http://www.cdu-saar.de/verband/geschichte1.jsp
 * Datenhandbuch Deutscher Bundestag page 91 and 93
 * The German Electoral Law, that makes it important, that the same party is running. It got 3015892 votes in Bavaria and 117168 votes in the Saarland, making 3133060 votes for the Party CSU. --62.104.206.64 18:15 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

''Edmund Stoiber took over the CSU chairmanship early in 1999. He ran for chancellor in 2002, but lost.''

Germany is a parliamentary system--how could Stoiber have run for chancellor? I'm not familiar with the 2002 elections, so I'm unclear as to what the sentence could mean. Mackensen (talk) 10:38, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Even parliamentary systems are becoming ever more Presidential, with the party's leader effectively running for Chancellor. Stoiber was the CDU/CSU nominee for the Chancellorship in the election and so spearheading the campaign, participating in any leader debates and the like, rather than the CDU's Merkel. Timrollpickering 23:42, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

2005 Election - more information and discussion needed
I'm not an expert on German politics, so I'd prefer someone else to write about this in the article, but according to the Results of the 2005 election, the Bavarian CSU lost more seats from votes in Bavaria than the CDU did in the entire rest of the country. Does this indicate a realigning of Bavarian politics? What percent of the Bavarian vote was their loss of 1.6% of the total vote? Blackcats 01:37, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

The CSU got only 49,2% of the votes in Bavaria. 2002 they had 58,6%, which was extraordinary because Stoiber ran for chancellor. The traditional aim of the CSU is to reach more than 50% in Bavaria and currently there's a lot of discussion, whether the programm has to be corrected and the left wing of the party is strengthened. But it is to early to have a complete analysis. -- Alex from Bavaria (By the way: I extended the Article "CSU" in the German wikipedia. Perhaps someone who's fitter in english language than me could translate some important parts of it.)

On the federal level, the CSU is often perceived as the more socially conservative of the two parties, although recently it has also been seen as more leftist on economic issues than the CDU.


 * This isn't really a contradiction, though it may appear as such to people accustomed to the American essentially two-party political system. The CSU is more conservative on issues like homosexuality (esp. same-sex marriage), school prayers, abortion etc., while at the same time being to the "left" of the CDU on social equality issues. But this is because the self-image of the CSU is as the party of "simple folks" (in terms of lifestyle, not mental capacity, mind you :-) ), or the "little man". So to speak, the CSU is the party of Bavarian conservative Oktoberfestian coziness, and everything that doesn't fit into this picture is viewed with suspicion (whether it's non-Christians, homosexuals, foreigners or newly rich types). It's not necessarily enmity on their part, though, just a tangible discomfort with everything that questions Bavarians' view of living in the most beautiful and homey country on the planet. God's second home on Earth, so to speak, when He's leaving Jerusalem on vacation. Probably one visit to Bavaria will tell you more than a thousand of my words, though. :-) (If I have exaggerated some points a little it was just for the point of illustration.) Aragorn2 18:46, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * "whether it's non-Christians"... I think you mean "whether it's non-Catholic"!


 * Aragorn2 - further confirmation that Bavaria is, indeed, the Texas of Germany. (grew up in Texas, now living in Bavaria, so I should know.) Texmandie 09:16, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

although recently it has also been seen as more leftist on economic issues than the CDU.
Source? Bavaria is one of the most economic liberal states in Germany. They're "Sparpolitik" isn't very leftist. 195.3.113.38 22:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

the CSU is NOT a Socialist party !!!
"Political Ideology Christian Democracy, Socialism" ??? no —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.240.182 (talk) 21:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:CSU logo.jpg
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BetacommandBot 11:35, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Ideology, stance in issues
From the article it isn't clear what kind of policies this party supports. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.134.163.209 (talk) 14:50, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

History
Focus too much on Strauss. 2.210.43.153 (talk) 21:31, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Bavarian nationalism
You cannot deny that there is a Bavarian nationalistic faction within the CSU, though they don't make up a significant group (anymore - since the 1960s). --Datu Dong (talk) 15:13, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Bavarian Seats
Just to avoid an edit war: An IP is changing the CSU seat diagram to the number of seats that stem from Bavaria. This contradicts the diagram used on the German page. In the Bundestag, there are no Länder seats. The CSU has decided to run in Bavaria only, hence the party's seat share is smaller than some others. Any thoughts? --Nillurcheier (talk) 16:46, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Wrong, in Germanys MMP-system, the proportional seats are allocated through Landeslisten and the Überhandmandate are also in relation to the states. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.96.172.106 (talk) 20:28, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

internal elections
Not yet sourceable; however, the blogs are ablaze that Söder's looking to resign. Should get up to date on that I believe Sucker for All (talk) 00:43, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

History section ?
There is no history outline so far. No information about "founders", founding process, early years. --213.172.123.242 (talk) 07:59, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Ideology
How about changing the "conservatism" of infobox's ideology to "social conservatism"? In fact, the CSU is more culturally conservative than the CDU. Mureungdowon (talk) 00:11, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

That’s needlessly redundant, as generic “Conservatism” already implies social conservatism. Autospark (talk) 18:20, 21 December 2022 (UTC)


 * I agree with User:Autospark. "Conservatism" and, I would add, "Christian democracy" already include "social conservatism". It is no surprise, by the way, that the article on the CDU features "Christian democracy" and "liberal conservatism", not "conservatism", in its infobox. The status quo is fine to me. --Checco (talk) 16:04, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Posición
I propose to add (with sources of course) "Centre-right to Right-wing" because it is described like that, and it's more right-wing that the CDU. Hidolo (talk) 14:32, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * They are not commonly known as right wing --FMSky (talk) 15:19, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, they are. And there are more. Hidolo (talk) 15:32, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Half of these links dont work or are literally sources from the 1980s --FMSky (talk) 15:56, 21 June 2024 (UTC)