Talk:Citadel LLC

Page Lock
I highly recommend this page get locked for the next few months. This kind of vandalism will occur repeatedly until the situation surrounding GameStop ($GME) resolves. TranceaddicT (talk) 21:26, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Wondering if there's not about to be a massive amount of vandalism coming in.
I'm not too familiar with Wikipedia's rules on locking things.

but it's probably going to be prudent to lock the article from editing for the next while. Until what's going on with gamestop blows over. Just think it would save a lot of work, possibly preventing an absurd amount of vandalism, from both sides of the 'fight'. 75.168.21.203 (talk) 03:17, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 June 2021
Citadel is a known hedgefund which deals in naked shorts sellings of stocks. Citadel knows this is illegal but they do not care. They enjoy engaging in fraudulent activities to line their own pockets and bankrupt companies and make thousands of people jobless. 80.0.159.46 (talk) 13:52, 5 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. lomrjyo(talk•contrib•Ping with { {u&#124;Lomrjyo}}) |undefined 13:56, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Illegal market manipulation
Definitly needs some parts about the 'supposed' *wink wink* illegal market manipulation during the AMC squeeze, such as naked shorting, FTD manipulation, FUD spreading in social media and news and at least some semi-illegal, shady moves like rerouting order flow through dark pools to fake selling pressure. ApeGladiator (talk) 15:43, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * What are the reliable sources covering that information? Schazjmd   (talk)  15:49, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

" Citadel Securities automation has resulted in more reliable trading at lower costs and with tighter spreads"
This is straight up lies, pr talk from Citadel to dupe unsuspecting customers, backed by an article clearly pushed by PFOF brokers too muddy the waters of "facts". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sek3000 (talk • contribs) 13:48, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Proposal to split out the section called Citadel Securities
I propose that the section called "Citadel Securities" be split off into a separate page also called "Citadel Securities" for the following reasons:
 * Citadel Securities is a separate company from Citadel. Citadel Securities is a market maker, one of the largest in the world, while Citadel, the subject of this article, is an asset manager. It is confusing and inaccurate to feature a separate company (Citadel Securities) as a subset/division of another company, (Citadel), as is implied by the structure and content of this article.
 * In addition, Citadel Securities can easily exist as a separate, stand-alone article since it passes Wikipedia standards for notability based on a prevalence of significant coverage in reliable sources. Here are a few examples of such coverage: https://www.ft.com/content/58dd7e9d-9483-4ec7-9fdf-1a45f373e8b5; https://www.wsj.com/articles/spotify-picks-citadel-securities-to-handle-debut-at-nyse-1520439264; https://qz.com/1969196/citadel-securities-gets-almost-as-much-trading-volume-as-nasdaq/

I have already created a draft of "Citadel Securities" in my userspace, found at User:Amandaatcitadel/Citadel Securities, which is identical to the current "Citadel Securities" section, except that I added an Infobox, a lead section with reliable sources, an External links section, and the correction of the founding date to 2002. I am notifying who recently helped me with Ken Griffin's page. If there is anything else you need, please let me know. Amandaatcitadel (talk) 14:42, 2 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Their was a recent article about Citadel in the FT, Citadel Securities is a seperate entity from the Hedge Fund business, it needs its own wikipage due to its size + prominence. --Devokewater (talk)  14:45, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

*Oppose. We generally do not spin off the securities division of big financial groups into separate articles: see for a list of prominent examples. The applicable policy here is WP:PAGEDECIDE whose criteria, in my opinion, call for keeping everything in one article. However, I do concede that treating Citadel Securities as a sub-topic of Citadel "The Fund" is sub-optimal, so what I would suggest is to rebrand the article as "Citadel", i.e. a "financial group" comprising both an asset management arm and a market making/securities arm. JBchrch  talk  14:58, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Citadel and Citadel Securities are separately run businesses that play different roles in the market, and the latter is not "the securities division" of the former. They are both subsidiaries of Citadel Enterprise Americas, LLC, a non-notable holding company. There are plenty of examples on Wikipedia of independently notable sister companies that merit their own standalone articles, such as HSBC Finance and HSBC Insurance; or GE Digital and GE Power.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amandaatcitadel (talk • contribs) 15:29, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Amandaatcitadel Thanks for your helpful comment. I understand the mechanics of mutual independence, and I also understand that you guys at PR need to make sure that public and the clients see these two companies as clearly separate. However, I'm not entirely convinced that this separation has reached the reliable sources yet. The latest FT article about the company begins by calling Ken Griffin the founder of Citadel Securities and its related $35bn hedge fund Citadel. The article then spends a lot of time explaining the evolving relationship between Citadel LLC, Citadel Securities and Ken Griffin. The FT and WSJ articles you linked also associate Citadel LLC and Citadel Securities (FT: "group", WSJ: "It was founded in 2002 by billionaire Ken Griffin, who also leads hedge fund Citadel LLC"). I also remember last year's House hearing, where Ken Griffin was called to testify as "Founder and CEO of Citadel and Founder and Principal Shareholder of Citadel Securities" . I will admit that I'm seeing in the reliable sources (I've scanned FT, WSJ and Bloomberg) a tendency to address Citadel LLC and Citadel Securities separately and not as a monolithic group of companies (as opposed to UBS AG and UBS Securities for instance). I am open to changing my !vote if you can provide some reliable secondary sources that would address in more detail how the separation between the two companies and, specifically, to what extent Ken Griffin exercises (or doesn't exercise) a form of common control over the two companies. JBchrch   talk  16:10, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi . I believe the following reliable secondary sources address your points above. The New York Times makes it quite clear these are two separate businesses. NPR goes a bit further, stating that "Citadel runs a hedge fund..." and later says "But a separate business, also founded and majority-owned by Ken Griffin...is Citadel Securities..." An article in the Financial Times addresses the role Griffin plays at Citadel Securities: "Peng Zhao, who joined Citadel in the mid-2000s and has run Citadel Securities since 2017, says Griffin’s influence is evident through the culture of the business, even if the founder is no longer involved in the “day to day” running of a company in which — according to regulatory disclosures — he owns a stake of at least 75 per cent."  I appreciate the time you have taken to discuss this.


 * Thank you. Amandaatcitadel (talk) 21:24, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Moving to support. The New York Times article provides satisfactory coverage of the separation between the two companies and the fact that they are not part of the same corporate entity and are managed separately. Two separate article are justified. In response to Imcdc, I have 0 doubts about the notability of either companies, which a google search with the terms "Citadel Securities" easily demonstrates. JBchrch   talk  01:29, 17 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose. For the same reasoning that JBchrch  lists and support the rebrand as "Citadel", i.e. a "financial group". WestportWiki (talk) 22:11, 2 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Support. This is provided the article has enough independent in-depth sources that show that the securities entity is notable enough to warrant its own page. Not just a brief mention because it happened to be affiliated with the Citadel Group. Also since the author is connected with Citadel, we most certainly need an editor to ensure the article can demonstrate notability and and isn't existing just to promote the securities entity. -Imcdc (talk) 11:41, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Update Activities, Investment strategies and Infobox
Hello. I have a few requests to update and more properly organize the Citadel article.
 * In the "Activities" section, please add the following sentence immediately after the sentence that begins "In 2014, Citadel became the first...": "Citadel was ranked 2nd among the top money managers for net gains in 2021."
 * In the "Investment strategies" subsection please move the content labeled "Reinsurance" and the content labeled "Risk management." Neither of those discussions belong under "Investment strategies" and each should instead be their own stand-alone subsection under "Activities". This source shows what the five investment strategies are, (equities, commodities, global fixed income and macro, credit, and quantitative strategies) and Reinsurance and Risk management are not listed as one of the five.
 * Also, in the "Investment strategies" subsection, please move "Citadel Technology" to the "Former Citadel companies" section, as it is a former Citadel company, and no longer exists.
 * In the Infobox, please remove "Citadel Securities" and "Citadel Technology" from the "Subsidiaries" parameter.
 * Also, in the Infobox, please update the headquarters to Miami.

Thanks so much. Cduffymul (talk) 16:19, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi . I wanted to call your attention to this recent edit request in case you were interested in reviewing and possibly implementing. I would surely appreciate it if you did. Thanks, Cduffymul (talk) 13:18, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Hope this works. Ptrnext (talk) 06:16, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your helpful edits. I noticed that there is an additional mention of the old headquarters location as well as an unsourced “operational headquarters” location which is not accurate. I am therefore requesting the following:
 * In the Introduction, in the sentence that begins "The company has more than 1,400 employees, with corporate headquarters in Chicago," please change Chicago to Miami.
 * In the same sentence as above, please remove the phrase "operational headquarters in Manhattan". It is not accurate and there is no source for this statement.
 * Also in the Infobox, please take out the phrase "Operational HQ:425 Park Avenue, New York, NY U.S." per the above.
 * Thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated. Cduffymul (talk) 12:36, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello : I noticed you made the change to list the 425 Park Av site as the operational HQ. I couldn't find a source—am I missing something or should it be removed? Ptrnext (talk) 04:08, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Honestly, it's been so long I can't remember now. Castncoot (talk) 04:29, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * No worries, just thought I'd check., I've updated per your request. Ptrnext (talk) 05:04, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Update History & Reinsurance
Hello. I have a few updates and corrections I hope can be implemented on the Citadel LLC page.
 * Please remove "Market maker" from the 'Products' parameter in the Infobox, as it does not apply to Citadel LLC.
 * Yes check.svg Done GiovanniSidwell (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)


 * In the History section, the paragraph that begins: "In 2011, Griffin began…" should be changed to "In December 2001, Griffin began…" The source there is from 2011, but the article refers to an event that happened in December 2001. When the date is changed, please move the paragraph to its correct place chronologically in the History section.
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done GiovanniSidwell (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)


 * In the History section, in the paragraph that begins "During the coronavirus pandemic…" please change "Citadel Securities" to "Citadel LLC…" 'Securities' went to Palm Beach and 'Citadel' went to Kohler, Wisconsin. This description matches the sources.
 * Yes check.svg Done GiovanniSidwell (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * , thank you for your help in improving the Citadel LLC article! Cduffymul (talk) 13:12, 12 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Please remove the "Reinsurance" section. It is outdated and irrelevant to the company now. If removal of the section is not possible, then can you move a much shorter version of that section to the "Former Citadel companies" section? Here is a possible shorter version:
 * In 2004 and 2005, Citadel founded CIG Reinsurance Ltd and New Castle Re. In 2006, Citadel's two funds, Kensington Global Strategies and Citadel Wellington had approximately 10 percent of its assets invested in reinsurance. By 2008 Citadel wound down CIG Re, and in 2009, Citadel placed New Castle Re into run-off.
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Please establish a consensus with editors engaged in the subject area before using the Request edit template for this proposed change. I am not knowledgeable enough in this area to evaluate this change, I would suggest starting dedicated RfC and asking for input from interested users. GiovanniSidwell (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks so much. Cduffymul (talk) 14:40, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Updates to Intro, Activities and Employees
Hello. Citadel's article is in need of some updating, as follows: In the Intro section, please:
 * Update "$62 billion in assets under management as of December 2022" to "$58 billion in assets under management at the beginning of 2024"
 * ✅ ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Change "over 2,600 employees" to "over 2,800 employees"
 * ✅ ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)


 * In the last line of the Intro, please change "As of December 2022, Citadel is the most successful hedge fund of all time, posting $65.9 billion…" to "As of December 2023, Citadel is the most successful hedge fund of all time, posting $74 billion…"
 * the term 'most successful' was not verified in the article content ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

In the Activities section, in the Citadel sub-section (the first sub-section) please update the following:
 * Update "As of January 2016, Citadel managed more than $29 billion in capital and was one of the world's largest asset managers" to "As of January 2024, Citadel managed more than $58 billion in capital and was one of the world's largest asset managers."
 * ✅ ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Please change the second sentence in the same section to the following:
 * At the end of 2023, Citadel ranked as the third largest hedge fund manager in the US, and in 2023, the second largest multi-strategy hedge fund globally.
 * I'd like a reliable source that talks about multi strategy firms as a whole, the linked piece reads promotionally. ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Please add the following sentence to the end of this sub-section:
 * In 2023, Citadel returned about $7 billion in profits for its clients, or about a 15% return for its flagship fund. Since 2018 Citadel has returned about $25 billion to its investors.
 * ✅ ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

In the Employees sub-section of Corporate Affairs, please make the following changes:
 * In the first paragraph, please clarify that these events were in the past, so that it reads:
 * In 2007, the fund was known for having one of the largest personnel turnovers in Chicago, gaining the nickname "Chicago's revolving door." The New York Times reported "the firm is unique in its reputation for being a revolving door." It was also reported that turnover was aligned with the hedge fund industry.
 * one of the existing sources failed verification, so I've partially implemented this request keeping with the intent and clarifying who said what. ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Please add the following sentence to the end of the sub-section:
 * In 2018, Citadel was ranked among LinkedIn's 50 best companies to work for in the US.
 * ❌ Not convinced this should be in the article. ForksForks (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

I am also pinging who recently edited the page. Thanks so much. Cduffymul (talk) 22:55, 20 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Hey, I've gone through your requests. Please only ping me for questions about this review, I'm quite busy and may not have time to answer future requests! ForksForks (talk) 03:36, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi, thank you for your help in implementing my request. I appreciate your offer to further assist with this review, and hope you have time to look over the following:
 * Intro section:
 * The CNBC source refers to Citadel as, "the most successful hedge fund in history," based on its $74 billion in gains since inception. Can you please incorporate that language?
 * Activities section:
 * Here is a Bloomberg source about multi-strategy funds that supports Citadel as the second-ranked firm in 2023.
 * Employees sub-section
 * Here is a direct link to the Fortune article, which supports my suggested language: "In 2007, the fund was known for having one of the largest personnel turnovers in Chicago, gaining the nickname, "Chicago's revolving door." (This source is reference 7 on this Talk page reflist and reference 68 in the Citadel LLC article).
 * Thank you again for your efforts to update this article. Cduffymul (talk) 14:41, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ ForksForks (talk) 17:01, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Updates to Corporate Affairs and History
Hello. Please add the following two subjects as separate paragraphs to the end of the "Employees" sub-section of the "Corporate affairs" section:
 * At the end of 2022, Citadel took employees and their families from the US, Canada, and Europe to Disney World for an all-inclusive weekend. The following year the firm did the same for 1,200 employees and their families from six offices located in Asia Pacific, at Disneyland Tokyo. The events were paid for by company founder Griffin in honor of the 30th anniversary of the launch of Citadel in 1990 and Citadel Securities in 1992.
 * Citadel sponsors a competitive 11-week summer internship program each year which accepts less than 1 percent of those who apply.

Thanks so much, Cduffymul (talk) 12:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Promotional, doesn't seem to be due weight, especially the first paragraph. Rusalkii  (talk) 22:16, 11 July 2024 (UTC)