Talk:Citadel of Damascus

Basic TODO list
Yazan (talk) 00:33, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Expand the history section.
 * Mamluke ✅
 * Ottoman ✅
 * In 1860 the Druze-Maronite conflict spilled into Damascus. Many Christians were saved through the intervention of the Algerian exile Abd al-Qadir and his soldiers, who brought them to safety in Abd al-Qadir's residence and the citadel. Yazan (talk) 11:13, 13 March 2010 (UTC) ✅
 * French ✅
 * Modern ✅
 * Expand the architecture section.
 * This is a very impressive source. Yazan (talk) 20:13, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Expand the recent conditions section.
 * Check this Yazan (talk) 08:03, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Find/create a copyright-free floor plan.
 * This presentation has very good floor plans, do you think we can use them? Yazan (talk) 18:52, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Specific tasks
While wikifying references to the citadel in other articles, I found some potential topics to include: Zoeperkoe (talk) 04:17, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * List some notable prisoners while citadel was prison?
 * Article on Izzat Darwaza says he was imprisoned in the citadel, but the reference to this, Abu-Ghazaleh 1973, isn't in the bibliography.
 * This article says Ibn Taymiyyah was also imprisoned there. Yazan (talk) 08:09, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * According to this, Abd al-Qadir Qaddura was also imprisoned there for a month. Yazan (talk) 08:17, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Timeline of archaeology, 2000s says 3500 yr old remains have been found inside the citadel, but without reference. I will look this up. If notable and sufficient details are available, we could perhaps make a pre-Islamic section in the history section? Zoeperkoe (talk) 04:22, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Dumper says the citadel stands on the site of the old Roman castrum.Yazan (talk) 11:10, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Damascus: A history mentions excavations inside the citadel in a footnote on page 274, which states "The first reliale clues as to the possibility of Bronze Age settlement in Damascus may come from the recent excavations in the Damascus Citadel by a Franco-Syrian team (Institut Français de Proche Orient, Directorate-General of Antiquities & Museums of Syria) led by Sophie Berthier and Sawsan Khalifeh as well as the soundings of Michel al-Maqdissi (DGAMS)." I'll try to find more about them by following the names of the people and institutions involved.  T i a m u t talk 21:41, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * These are probably the same excavations from which the burial referred to above came. If you come across any publications on this that aren't accessible online, let me know, and I can almost certainly get them from my university library. Zoeperkoe (talk) 23:48, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * My main source on the citadel, the dissertation by Chevedden which is in the bibliography, says that there is no physical evidence for the existence of a Roman fort on the location of the citadel, and argues that this is (partly) based on a misreading of texts by earlier scholars. So unless the more recent excavations have indeed yielded evidence for Roman occupation (which I have not yet checked), I am inclined to follow Chevedden at the moment. Zoeperkoe (talk) 23:57, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you have an electronic copy of Chevedden's dissertation, I've been trying to get a hold of it for a while? Yazan (talk) 11:04, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I only have a hard copy but I will check whether a pdf exists. Zoeperkoe (talk) 17:19, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I found the pdf through my university account of http://www.proquest.com/en-US/access/connect.shtml, so you can try it there if you have an account. It's 30 mb, so otherwise we have to set up a file-share somewhere, as it's too big to email and zipping usually doesn't work well with pdfs. Zoeperkoe (talk) 15:56, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * No, my university, does not have a subscription there. If it's at all possible, when you have the time, to upload it to some file-share server, I'd be very grateful. Best. Yazan (talk) 16:35, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Location map
The location map should maybe be of a map of Damascus and then pointing out where in Damascus the castle is, instead of where in Syria. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 12:32, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you have a map of Damascus? I don't think there is one on WP. Yazan (talk) 12:35, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Isn't there a map of the old city with the walls and gates? I think you used it in the Old city (Damascus) template. Only I don't know how to put the name of the citadel in the map, so may be you could replace the map? Zoeperkoe (talk) 16:15, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The map I created it, except it's not very accurate, I think we can make a better one. On a side note, I received this email concerning the diagrams and photos from the Italian-Syrian cooperation team.

--Hi, we would be gratefull if you can mention: courtesy of: www.nmdcsyria.org The citadel is not yet open to public as mentioned on Wikipedia. It will be in next year when consolidation works made by syrian-italian cooperation will be concluded. Thanks for your interest.

Renzo Carlucci IE PMU Restoration Laboratories National Museum Syrian Italian Development Cooperation Programme Rue Qasser Al Hier - Damascus - Syria www.nmdcsyria.org Office: (+963) (011) 44677238 Mobile (+963) (0) 9881481248

--Yazan (talk) 16:26, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the maps would help very much, but I'm not sure how we can license them. Yazan (talk) 16:28, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Did we use any images from them? I checked and I thought all of them were made by private users who uploaded them to wikipedia as own work. Or did you ask them whether we could use images from their presentation? If it's the latter, they have to officially sign a document that they release the images to wikipedia under one of several copyright notices and that document will be stored by wikipedia, iirc. Zoeperkoe (talk) 16:36, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * No images were used from the presentation, they're very low quality any way, but the floor plan could be used. Yazan (talk) 16:45, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * So, to be sure, they have actually said that we could use the floor plan?


 * If so, then it's a matter of copyright. Wikipedia doesn't allow fully copyrighted images to be used (in the sense that no copies/derivatives may be made), so if they allow the use of this map, then it must be under a less strict CR license, and they must agree to that license.


 * Also, simply redrawing doesn't solve the problem, as the original CR would also attach to the new drawing. I haven't worked with CR images before on wikipedia, so if necessary we better ask a specialist at the helpdesk or so. Zoeperkoe (talk) 17:01, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Location
The article says in the lead that the citadel is located between Bab al-Faradis and Bab al-Nasr, and then in the body it says it is between Bab al-Jabiyah and Bab al-Faraj. I'm not an expert on the ancient Gates of Damascus, but the citadel as it stands now is located between Bab al-Jabiyah (the entrance to the Street Called Straight) and Bab al-Faradis. Not sure if Bab al-Nasr, and Bab al-Faraj are only other names for these. Yazan (talk) 11:12, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I am not sure how that got into the article; however I know that in one source I found different names for the gates than where in the article. For now, I would stick with the names as they are in WP, I'll try to look it up and if one of the gates used to have another name, I will add that to that article. -- Zoeperkoe (talk) 14:01, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

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