Talk:Clogging

Clogging is hader than tap. In tap they make light sounds and in clogging we make hard sounds.

Vandalism
This page had been blatantly vandalized so I went ahead and reverted it to a more previous version.

JudgeMana 02:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)JudgeMana

Jooba
I did the nerge and redirect of Jooba, I was only d to find a single reference (which may support the narwal or it may be based on wikipedia's marriage page). If anyones good enough to know if the usage of it is not correct please place a note here. does the PINK FLUFFY UNICORNS DANCING ON RAINBOWS know it is correct please remove the section on Jooba (funny word). If you remove it and don't know how to clean up the redirects leave a note on my talk page. THE PAINFUL WATER BOTTLE HURTS MY SOUL Jeepday (talk) 02:36, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

McAlister
I have removed the following text:

In Europe, clogging groups are often part of square dance clubs, but some are also organized as individual clogging clubs. Justin David McAllister of the Village of Bexley, Ohio is known for his clogging which he started as a child. With his modern influence, clogging is making a comeback among the young.

because I can find no reference to "Justin David McAllister". Ogg 14:25, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Brandon Norris?
Should this article mention the appearance of Brandon Norris on So You Think You Can Dance? I could be wrong, but it's my impression that Norris greatly increased the awareness of clogging in America. Capedia (talk) 22:02, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Clogging vs. Clog Dancing
The article makes it clear that clogging and clog dancing are two different styles of dance, even though clogging has some roots in clog dancing. However there are other areas in the article, including the re-direct of "clog dancing" to this article, which treat the two styles as the same. Should clog dancing have its own article? ++Arx Fortis (talk) 15:52, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Although Clogging and Clog Dancing may be considered two different styles in many parts of the world, in the US they have been used synonymously for as long as I've been dancing. Perhaps a new article needs to be written for English Clog Dancing and include the different styles found in England. The same for the Netherlands style as well. When a search for Clog Dancing is made, a links page can show the different articles and the user can pick which one they want to read. - k5jat (talk) 21:24, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Others and Should these articles be split. Lancashire style clog relies on the dancer wearing clogs and dancing in a very disciplined way-- not doing a freestyle dance in slippers! The Lancashire section is well referenced and can easily be pulled up to a B- the rest of the article is basically unreferenced free prose. The articles are easily separated (though I am not sure what one does with the edit history).-- Clem Rutter (talk) 22:42, 27 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I raised a few concerns on this a couple of years ago and coming back am disappointed in the page. Half an hour ago I started by saying "I'm not, at this stage, convinced that a split is needed", but I now think I agree with Clem.  Probably the easiest thing is to hijack the redirect page on Clog dancing to become the main article on all forms of dancing with clogs.  There needs to be reference to the use of clogs in Morris, but only a reference.  The North American section (which is both confused and confusing) can be left to languish where it is, but with a hat note redirecting the reader to the Clog dancing page.  When the non-Appalachian content is removed, then reference in the edit history to its relocation ought to keep things straight,  Comments quickly please, I may start quoting WP:BOLD! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:24, 28 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Pragmatically, I think it is easier to clone the page to Clog dancing and use that (albeit with a hathote to a Clog dancing (disamb) page) to develop a well referenced British clog-dancing page. It will also solve the talk page dilemma. This EFDSS page says almost every thing we need to put into the lead. We can then at our leisure delete irrelevant passages from both pages. The split should only take a couple of hours.--  Clem Rutter (talk) 22:21, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Derivation of "buck"...
The derivation of the word "buck" given here seems needlessly complicated for the situation, and also doesn't seem to link it to its use for dancing. Why this and none of the other possible etymologies? "Buck" has been used to describe a (young) male for far longer than the meat-smoking story told here (e.g. bucks and does) - "Buck dancing" refers to male solo dancing (such as often developed in occupations such as the Navy) or circumstances where female partners weren't available (such as mining camps, cowboying, etc.), or in the case of a "buck dancer's choice" to a round of dancing where the male chooses the female partner (similar to a ladies' or gentleman's excuse-me).Jock123 (talk) 13:03, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Netherlands
The information in the second half of the first Netherlands paragraph is derived from Ehow's web page detailing "the history of Dutch wooden clogs". I was not able to include the citation, as ehow is on Wikipedia's blacklist as a spam site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramseyman (talk • contribs) 07:28, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Lead section
We really can't start off with "Clogging is a type of North American folk dance" and then immediately discuss English and Welsh origins going back to the 15th century! Perhaps "Clogging is a type of folk dance originally based upon the sound of clogs." and leave the Appalacian developments to the United States section? The third paragraph also worries me, see clog where the evolution of the English clog is discussed, it comes not from the whole foot Dutch style, but from the development from pattens which I suspect is the confused source of the last sentence. Can anyone confirm or cite this interpretation of "flat footing"? To me a flat footed dancer is one who doesn't use rise and fall. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 16:30, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Hear hear. This is one of those "We are the world, we are the people" articles, that some US Wikipedia writers indulge in. APW (talk) 07:40, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Made edit to make lead section less contradictory and American centric --Bigmeuprudeboy (talk) 08:33, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

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Clogging not considered dancing among some Baptists
When I was a boy my family lived across the street from a baptist preacher and his family. He was a permanent fixture (not an itinerant preacher) at a middle sized baptist church nearby. I don't know what his title was, but it was something more professional than deacon, and something less august than bishop. My family was mostly secular, although we went to a Catholic church on a most weekly basis because of my mother's upbringing, which was pretty conventional mid-century Catholic. My father had been raised a strict Lutheran, but he had become agnostic/atheist, and so he didn't care about the religion that my mother taught us. I assumed our neighbor was like one of the junior priests at our Catholic church... someone who was on the payroll, but wasn't the boss. I went to the church to see him speak a couple of times, but I don't know what the structure of the clergy was at their church. I just knew him as Pastor John. For all of that background, this is the one thing that always confused my family about the faith of his family. They were deeply conservative, to the point that they would say that rock music was the devil, and that dancing was the devil's business. But somehow their faith made room for clogging. Specifically, that country music accompanied heel and toe tapping style of dancing (excuse me, clogging), that they loved to participate in. Their church would put up clogging exhibitions in the very church, and my family could never figure out how it was any different from other forms of dancing. So why is clogging okay to the Baptists but if you call it anything else it's the devil's business? Is this still a thing? Or was my experience with this possibly splintered off group of clogging Baptists unique? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:5:D004:990:7447:3043:9400:BAAE (talk) 05:00, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Recent additions
I think the safest course- is to delete. The paragraph on clogs reads like a c&p from tourist board material and is off topic. The addition about 'special tricks' is adding material to a referenced fact- material that the reference doesn't support. There is no referenced material to save. Is there anyone who thinks it could be saved? -- Clem Rutter (talk) 09:42, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Clem, TBH there's not a lot, and what there is needs a fair amount of rewriting ("our" and "we" for example). The bit on clogs themselves also needs moving.  However, WP:DONTBITE applies; this is user:TG11TG15's first attempt and he needs help and guidance. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:58, 5 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I've removed some of it and left a note and welcome box on their talk page. Richerman    (talk) 12:24, 5 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Oops! just realised it's all cut and pasted so had to remove more of it as it a wp:copyvio Richerman    (talk) 12:34, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

This article continues to provide problems- Martin of Sheffield made a suggestion 23:24, 28 October 2015 (UTC) that the article is cloned and we can separate out our copyvios from Clogging and its entirely unreferenced text. Clem Rutter (talk) 12:41, 5 January 2016 (UTC)b


 * I was mulling over this last weekend, having realised that a couple of months had slipped past. There are a number of issues:


 * 1) Clogging and Clog dancing are used interchangeably.
 * 2) The North American tradition seems to have diverged a long way from clogs.
 * 3) We have to be careful over terminology with the Welsh and Lancashire traditions - each claim to be the original and unique, yet both seem to be very similar.
 * 4) Have we information on other traditions (Yorkshire for instance).
 * 5) Is there an Irish tradition?  Their traditional step dancing is very similar.
 * 6) We need to link to Morris danced in clogs, and in passing to tap.  What other offshoots have I missed?


 * I had earlier considered making Clog dancing the British tradition hat noted to Clogging. Clogging to be the American tradition, hat noted to Clog dancing.  I'm now considering:


 * Clog dance (disambiguation): main => Clog dance (British), since it seems to be the earliest tradition.
 * Clog dance (British) to include Welsh and English styles. Hatnoted to disambig page.
 * Clogging US tradition, hatnoted to disambig.
 * All traditions to also link to clog for details of the footwear versus the dance.


 * If I do push ahead with the split, then I fear that initially there may be a dearth of citations, perhaps once the "in use" and "under construction" tags are lifted there could be a concentrated attempt by those interested to find some good citations. If people would like I'll push ahead and try to sort something out by the end of the week. I'll also run around the relevant footwear pages to link to the dance pages and I hope that will stop duplication such as occurred here. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:54, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Clem Rutter (talk) 14:51, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * References galour! Chris Brady 2006 Clem Rutter (talk) 12:49, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅ I've kicked it into rough shape. There's still a lot of work to be done referencing and expanding.  I'll chase around the footwear adding hat notes back to the dance over the weekend.  For stability reasons, let's go to the talk pages for a brief discussion if you want to change the structure back or further. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:42, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Well done Martin - it makes more sense now. However, I can't see the logic of having Morris dance and Clog dance (British) but Clog-dancing for the disambiguation page - it should be Clog dance for consistency? See:Tap dance, Folk dance, Square dance etc. Richerman    (talk) 07:21, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Partially (I'll confess) the order in which I worked on them, but also because I was originally planning on making clog-dancing more than a disambiguation page, see for instance the way that clog (shoe) indexes to the regional variations. It's probably laziness, but in speech one tends to use the participle instead of the noun, perhaps the dreaded "encyclopaedic" critisism applies here!  I'll not do anything for the moment, but I might follow your suggestion over the weekend - what do others think? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:16, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Proposed move of Clog-dancing to Clog dance
There is a discussion concerning moving Clog-dancing to Clog dance on the Talk:Clog dance (British) page. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:20, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

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