Talk:Collective Soul

Ridiculous POV
I had no choice as an editor but to remove the most heinous POV drivel from the lead paragraph, but the entire article is peppered with the same fan-drool. I don't have time to go through and find neutral ways to paraphrase this article (and I suspect the article would be about 1/3 as long if it were properly done) but maybe someone who has the time and expertise could do a little more than I did? ThanksDrewson99 (talk) 03:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Completely agree. Phrases such as "Collective Soul exploded out of their hometown of Stockbridge, Georgia onto the national consciousness", "and more than lived up to the promise of the debut, ", "Collective Soul’s chart-topping streak continued:" and "The album debuted at a respectable #66 on the Billboard 200." all smack heavily of an ardent fan writing this.

Seriously needs cleanup and all POV removed.--Spoco2 (talk) 02:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

i agree i mean i love collective soul but this page makes them seem like they were huge after 1997 there popularity droped after 1997 like most of the real deal post grunge bands who came out in the early and mid 90's ,i mean with the teen pop explosion of the late 1990's nobody wanted to here real alternative rock,im not counting the fake post grunge bands like match box twenty and third eye blind--Wikiscribe (talk) 22:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know too much about Collective Soul but I do like them. Like Drewson I was shocked at how badly this article was written; I spent about 10 minutes cleaning up the more egregious examples of bad POV from the article, though the whole article probably needs to be rewritten, since everything about it is pretty outrageous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fingolfin 14 (talk • contribs) 19:18, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Fleurbutterfly 21:09, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * super uber praising. Hahaha. But CS is one of the best bands of all time, though indeed, their fame dropped starting 1999.

Clean Up
Considering that this already has a comprehensive list of singles produced by the band, I think it's redundant to make the bulk of the article about what position each single debuted at on some billboard chart. Personally, I think the article should focus more on the history and sound of the band.
 * Agreed. I'll try and find time to do some work on the page. Beatdown 21:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I did a major clean up of the 1993-2001 Atlantic Records section. I removed most of the info about singles because it is contained in the info box at the bottom of the article.  Still some work to be done on the whole article, but things are looking better.  Beatdown 14:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Origin of band name?
I've read that the band got the name "Collective Soul" from Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead? Can anyone confirm?


 * I've read that, also, but unfortunately I can't recall where. Amina skywalker 03:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Check collective soul's website  Fleurbutterfly 21:14, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

It's in the book, I'm sure. Edited the main article to properly reflect the phrase in the book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.151.207.124 (talk) 06:32, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Subjective Information Removed
The line, "They became one of the most successful bands for over a decade. Consistently among the most-played on radio stations and TV during the 1990s," has been removed for its irrelevance, inacuracy and highly subjective nature.

What are you talking about? Do you have any knowledge about the bands success? The statement is true.
 * Response**:

I have also read that this statement is true, atleast of the most-played radio content.


 * Yeah. True and correct. Do your assignment and research. Their fame even reached surprisingly, rural areas back in 90's. And i mean, mountains, cows, forests... You know what i mean.  Fleurbutterfly 21:17, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Performance in South Africa
They recently performed in South Africa as part of the Coca-Colab Massive Mix. Is it worth adding? Laurie

Confirmation and Review
Yes, the name came from Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead.

I saw them twice in '94-'95, once when they toured with Aerosmith and again when they opened for Van Halen. They blew Van Halen right off the stage. Since then, every time I've seen Collective Soul, they've been headliners. Bobbaxter

El Music Group Section
Please provide references for statements made in this section. Most are subjective.

Let me change it to:

As lead singer Ed Roland confirmed, working with The Atlanta Youth Symphony Orchestra was one of Collective Soul's most memorable experiences and the product of a baby being nurtured to maturation.

^ Please site your source for this. ^ "I do think an editor ought to be able to spell 'cite' "

"The DVD ended up selling quite well and the reviews for it were very positive from all over the music industry."

"Joel Kosche is receiving positive attention from... critics as being a proficient guitar player."

If you are going to write that CDs and DVDs have sold well, back it up. All these things might be true but please provide objective evidence. Remember, the object is to sound like a historian, not like a fan-boy.

Subjective elements removed from El Music Group section as well as clean up of some grammatical errors.

___

"Collective Soul is known for attracting many listeners with there catchy brand of rock. Many hard core fans of the group became such after only a few hours of listening (this quick form of attraction to the band is often referred to as a "Mess")"

Anything to back this up? Please sight your sources for this. How do we know how long people listened before they became fans? What is a "hard core fan?" Site your sources for the term "Mess." Explain why this term is used or delete it.

Major Label Years
The "major label years" is just a mess.

"They even landed a dream gig, warming up for rock superstars Aerosmith." Was this their dream gig or the author's dream gig? If this was their dream gig, tell us why. Otherwise, it's not worth including.

"It was certified triple-platinum in 1996 and spent an incredible 76 weeks on the Billboard 200, making it a blockbuster success." A blockbuster success? You don't work for the record label do you? Come now, state the facts and check your bias at the door.

"They hit a supreme high with their radio success, few rock bands have this much success with rock singles." Tell the readers why this radio success is important and how it was obtained. Or simply omit this information.

"Many people said they did not think that the band would be around for long." This sounds pretty shady. Who said this? Your friend Billy? State who said it or don't include it.

"Critics and experts did not favor this album as much as the fans." Again, elaborate or don't include it.

"However, everyone knows these bands have their own unique qualities. Critics questioned their choice of "image" and were saying that Collective Soul had become a "gimmicky pop-rock band". This was rather untrue, they still played their instruments with skill, despite the technological advances." If everyone knew this, there would be no need for wikipedia aricles about bands. Who were the critics and why do we care? Who's to say that they played with skill?

Basically, just clean up the bias and posr your sources. This seems highly opinionated. Opinion is fine, in moderation. I just don't like reading about Joe Shmoe's take on the band. I like to read what the band did(albums, tours, etc.), who is in the band(bios, controversey, dynamics), and finally the music itself(sound, style, influences).


 * I tend to agree with most of what you have said (whomever you are), and have embarked on a re-write this afternoon. In the future, may I recommend that you be bold in updating pages. Wikipedia is a community effort, and thrives on the community's input/work. JPG-GR 19:42, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree. It reads just like a VH1 special. --Deuxsonic (talk) 21:23, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Is It Guilt or a Separate Issue?
The last two sentences of the introduction read: "Some have called Collective Soul a Christian rock band, a styling the band has repeatedly denied. They do, however, admit that their lyrics are often spiritual in nature."

Should the latter line read "admit" or "acknowledge"? "Spiritual" does not necessarily equate to "Christian". Even the band's name is more eastern in religious philosophy than Christian. Additionally, the swearing found in the songs "Smashing Young Man", "Vent" and "Burn" somewhat closes the door on the "Christian Rock" styling. Can a music group be spiritual and non-Christian? -Eccl.7.12 15:47, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * "acknowledge" is a better word. David Bergan 23:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I understand the reasoning behind not using the term "Christian Rock" in describing this music, but I think there should be some acknowledgement, within the article, of the "spiritual" nature in some of the music. Instead, it is completely void within the article, and upon checking this discussion, I see that it was touched on, yet removed. I assume this is because of the "Christian Rock" comment.

The reason I looked up the band, is to find out if there is religious or spiritual meaning in some of this music. It does sound that way, and I get tired of Christians that only listen to "Christian Rock" while rejecting all other music, merely because it is not considered "Christian." This is my way of defending listening to mainstream music, even if it is not called Christian. Much of it has spiritual meaning, or moral meaning that should not be rejected buy those who consider themselves religious. Religion can be a touchy subject, but I think certain views should be acknowledged, at least in a general way.

I myself am a "Christian" that doesn't mean I abstain from swearing, nor that all Christian music does. If you were referring to conservative Christians such as, Southern Baptists, the idea of not swearing may be fairly accurate, when it comes to moral issues. There are some branches of Christian faith that are not so conservative, and may even use some swear words in their music. We should remember that each religion can be very broad and include a wide range of mind sets, values, morals, ideals etc. So while music containing swear words may seem a reason not to consider it Christian, I tend to disagree in this situation. However, I would certainly be willing to except the word spiritual rather than Christian, or even religious.

I guess I should address the lack of formating in my post. I could try to format it, but I only know a little bit of html. I think it would be fine to edit my post to put in any proper formatting that needs to be done. I have never added to any wiki page or file, so I'm not sure of the standards for this format. If I did this often, I would take the time to learn it, but I usually just read articles and discussions from Wikipedia. So if someone feels the need to edit this, feel free to cut or add whatever is needed. Hopefully I will learn proper formating, as I will probably eventually need to use it more in the future.

Venus Brown 24.110.102.49 (talk) 01:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Internet rumors....
I've read that Cho Seung-hui's favorite band was Collective Soul. Can anybody get a link to confirm this? - S h a r k f a c e  2 1 7  05:37, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes indeedy. It was in the article, but someone has since removed it. I vote that we reinstate this for he was so obsessed with the song, he wrote the lyrics all over his dorm room. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0704/17/acd.01.html --Carthaginienses 16:02, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The NY Times published an article with more of his background and they say a roommate confirms he listened to Shine alot. Pgrote 01:02, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Collectivesoulyouth.jpg
Image:Collectivesoulyouth.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Collectivesouldosage.jpg
Image:Collectivesouldosage.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Collectivesoulblender.jpg
Image:Collectivesoulblender.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Collectivesoul7evenyearitch.jpg
Image:Collectivesoul7evenyearitch.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Tagged as NPOV / Advertising
Folks, I have tagged this article as needing to be rewritten to a NPOV for its tone which is close to "advertising". Examples: the article says the band "exploded" in popularity, and that its manager was "greedy, deceitful". Those are not encyclopedic terms and are not substantiated in the article. Clearly somebody's shaded point of view, and not footnoted. -- hadley 23:57, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Haha, I slapped it on their earlier too, but mainly because of the first paragraph - 211.30.231.112 23:01, 2 November 2007 (UTC)(ZEROpumpkins)


 * The first paragraph is VERY "POV". Proxy User (talk) 20:21, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

On YouTube?
Is Collective Soul on YouTube? http://www.youtube.com/user/collectivesoul Could someone verify this? -Yancyfry 03:56, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

POV
This article needs some work. The first paragraph is especially in need of work. Come on folks, this isn't a "fan site". A decent article can be written without sounding like the band's PR agent. Proxy User (talk) 20:23, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Images
Most of the images on the page were clearly copyvios even though someone tagged them with a GFDL/CC license. I'm going to go ahead and remove them from the page. Not to mention that they were in very non-standard boxes... 66.93.12.46 (talk) 00:50, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Slightly OT: Jovian Storm
I am posting here because a certain user is trying to get all of my articles deleted, notably Jovian Storm (Kosche fans should know them well. Everyone else, please forgive the interruption!). If anyone has any contributions to make for Jovian Storm, please do so now. The user is claiming the article to be a hoax. I will post a similar request on Joel's Wiki page and hope for the best. Wikisicky (talk) 01:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

History
Apparently there is no history about this band, and they just got popular in 5 seconds. Come on, someone put some work into this and tell the story of the band. I don't know anything about the band. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.172.244 (talk) 17:14, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Music videos
This is pretty excessive and maybe requires a discography page but it's essential an internal Wikipedia link farm.--MattyMetalFan (talk) 20:54, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

The Epitome of Post-Grunge
Collective Soul is heavily regarded as one of the first true post-grunge bands and I have multiple sources cited as well as other pages on Wikipedia stating the same thing however it appears someone on this page is trying to cover up this clearly cited fact and is in direct violation of the point of view policy. Wikierman337 (talk) 16:37, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Please point us in the direction of this multitude of reliable sources as well as the reliably cited Wikipedia articles that verify your claim. Because as things stand right now, your current source is from an unreliable site (as Ponyo pointed out) and their terms of service state "We have no obligation to, and you should not expect us to, review content on our Site, including User Contributions (defined below) or contributions by our independent contributors". As well as "ThoughtCo does not represent or guarantee that any contributor has achieved any particular level of expertise or knowledge or has any specific qualifications or credentials as to the subject matter to which their contributions relate". Ponyo, could you weigh in here please. Rob van  vee  16:48, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi. I'm generally not involved with music-related articles, but I came here and decided to expand the lead section because I'm a huge Collective Soul fan, not that it's really relevant. Anyway, I stumbled upon this dispute. ThoughtCo doesn't appear to be a reliable source, but the AllMusic write-up on Collective Soul states that the band is post-grunge. Again, I'm not heavily involved with music-related articles, but it appears that AllMusic is a reliable source.--12george1 (talk) 22:27, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Awesome 12george1. I don't have a problem with the genre, I just want to see reliable sources. If one of you haven't added it back, I'll do so later.  Rob van  vee  04:53, 14 May 2019 (UTC)