Talk:Cruzados

Tito & Tarantula
I have replaced a deleted link to Tito & Tarantula, as well as the link to The Plugz. These musical acts either have or have had former members of Cruzados. Do not remove these links without discussing reasons for doing so on this talk page. Also, I'm not sure how Culture Clash is related to Cruzados and why there is a See also link to them. - cgilbert(talk 17:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Once again I am removing the links. Both those links are in other parts of the article and shouldn't be in the See also. --evrik (talk) 18:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, but why is Culture Clash a See also link? - cgilbert(talk 20:39, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * They are not mentioned in the article. --evrik (talk) 14:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand that they're not mentioned in the article, but what if anything does Culture Clash have to do with Los Cruzados? From the Culture Clash article, I gather that they are a comedy group based in San Francisco.  They are not a musical act; they are not from LA; they have no association with Los Cruzados.  What makes them pertinent enough to grant them a See Also link? - cgilbert(talk 15:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * From what i gather, they used to work with the band ... in any case I advocate leaving it be, otnherwise there would be nothing for that section. --evrik (talk) 18:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I've found information to support what you said about the connection between Los Cruzados and Culture Clash. Apparently Tito Larriva was the band leader for the Culture Clash show on Fox. - cgilbert(talk 19:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Glad you're convinced. --evrik (talk) 20:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Page Location

 * ''The following discussions are an archived debate. Please do not modify it.

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

I created the Cruzados page as a redirect at the request of an anonymous user on the Articles for Creation page. Shortly after that creation, 68.33.186.60 moved the content of the Los Cruzados article to that page(diff). Now the content has been moved back to Los Cruzados(diff). If anyone wants to move the page, please discuss the reasons for the move first. - cgilbert(talk 20:39, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * the page should never have been moved in the first place without proper discussion. --evrik (talk) 14:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The band's official name was just "Cruzados", not "Los Cruzados". Therefore, the page should be listed under "Cruzados". -M —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.33.186.60 (talk) 20:59, 8 February 2007 (UTC).


 * I have heard it both ways, also as The Cruzados. What documentation do you have? --evrik (talk) 14:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've heard it as Cruzados, The Cruzados, and Los Cruzados. However, on the albums, they are listed as Cruzados. See for yourself, here's the album covers: and  -M —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.33.186.60 (talk • contribs) 15:23, 9 February 2007


 * Unless we get better documented evidence, I think it's best to leave it as it is. --evrik (talk) 20:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? is that not good enough? How so? -M 23:26, 9 February 2007
 * I could cite as many sources showing them listed as both Los and The. --evrik (talk) 17:23, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Survey
Here's my results from a 50 page+ google search and a few other sites. I swear this is not biased, I just found every site listing them as either "Cruzados" or "The Cruzados". Los Cruzados appears to be the name of some Chilean soccer team anyway. You might have to use the search tool to find the reference on some of the pages. -M(talk)

Further discussion
-M(talk)
 * Well, it's been 5 days since I made that chart, and no one's said anything. I think I've given by far enough evidence to point out that it belongs under Cruzados, so I'm moving it back.
 * I have changed it back. If anything, it should the The Cruzados. --evrik (talk) 15:24, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Why? I think I've given some clear-cut evidence that they were better-known as Cruzados, let alone that that was their official name. It's like the Red Hot Chili Peppers or the Foo Fighters, the "The" isn't officially part of the band name, you just can't refer to them without saying adding a "The" before the name. -M(talk)
 * Look, if you're not going to argue as to why the page should belong under Los Cruzados, leave it as it is. I think I've definately proven my point, but the page is still under Los Cruzados, and no one's bothering to respond to much of what I say. So I'm moving it back to Cruzados. If you really think the page belongs where it is, say so here, and argue as to why. -M(talk)
 * It's really more like The Beatles. --evrik (talk) 19:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Not quite. The Beatles were sometimes just called Beatles, but their real name was THE Beatles. It's like the Foo Fighters and the Red Hot Chili Peppers because the "the" isn't part of the name, it's just hard to refer to them without putting a "the" before it. The Cruzados' debut album was even called "Cruzados", not "The Cruzados", the way the Foo Fighters' debut album was called "Foo Fighters" and the Red Hot Chili Peppers' debut album was called "Red Hot Chili Peppers". So that ought to prove it. -M(talk)
 * Why don't you register for an account? I went through your examples and found different references within the same articles. I remain unconvinced. --evrik (talk) 22:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I dunno. Maybe I will at some point. Anyway, what are you unconvinced about in my examples? Just about all of them list them as Cruzados or The Cruzados (it can be tricky to tell whether they're including the "the" as part of the name). More than anything, forget about whether it was Cruzados or The Cruzados, where's any evidence that it was Los Cruzados?
 * There, I registered. Anyway, it's been another 5 days since anything's happened here. It's getting very frustrating to have to wait every time with this info stuck on the wrong page. As I said before, if you really think the page belongs where it is, say so here, and argue as to why. Otherwise, let me keep it under Cruzados. --Rock Soldier (talk)
 * Look, I see your point, but I disagree. Would you like to start a straw poll and see if anyone else cares? --evrik (talk) 22:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Um...sure, but I'm not sure if anyone else will vote. Just wondering, why do you disagree? What do you think? You haven't really gone into any detail as to why it shouldn't be under Cruzados. --Rock Soldier (talk)
 * I won't oppose The Cruzados. --evrik (talk) 21:23, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, and if it's going to move, we shouold use The Cruzados --evrik (talk) 21:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Alright, you won't oppose to The Cruzados. But why do you oppose to Cruzados? --Rock Soldier (talk)
 * The noun Cruzados needs an article like The or Los. --evrik (talk) 20:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

move to Cruzados, per the discussion below; the album will be moved to Cruzados (album). A definite article is not mandated or even recommended by the naming conventions, and the dispute over which definite article is correct is a good indication that the definite article is not part of the official title. See the featured article Pixies for another example of a band usually called "the Pixies" but which doesn't reside at that title. Dekimasu よ! 02:31, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I will not oppose this move. --evrik (talk) 21:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Since User:JLaTondre closed the request to have the redirected deleted, we have to wait for an admin to make the move so that the history is kept. --evrik (talk) 21:54, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * An admin is needed either way. As I just stated on your talk page, you need to list page moves at WP:RM and not WP:RFD. The WP:RM closing admin will take care of the move if there is no objection. -- JLaTondre 22:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * All the cover art (and normal Wikipedia practice) is without the definite article. --Stemonitis 18:12, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Kinda late to complain ... we came to agreement about this a long time ago. What about The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and The Hollies just to name a few? I'm okay leaving it the way it is, but I was trying to work with the other user who wanted to change the name. --evrik (talk) 18:23, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems to from every source I've seen that the band, like the album, is called simply Cruzados. I suppose the band is of greater importance than one of its own albums, so I would recommend moving the current Cruzados to Cruzados (album), and moving Los Cruzados to Cruzados in its place. Alternatively, merge it all into one big Cruzados article. --Stemonitis 10:26, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Once again. The Beatles are filed under "B", but the article "The" is part of the title of the page. The article Los or The should be part of the page title. The sources here are all over the place, but we reached consensus about using the article "The." --evrik (talk) 14:59, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I do not see any consensus in the previous discussion above. I see the other user asking for clarification, but no agreement that either article is warranted. Dekimasu よ! 02:31, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Fair use rationale for Image:Cruzados.jpg
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WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 19:10, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Narrow Application of the Term "Cruzados"
This discussion should include the fact that the word "cruzados" has meaning, in the Mexican-American and Chicano communities, as "persons who cross the border."

That is the direct translation of the word "cruzados": those who cross.

The name of a band is related to this term.

Though I have never heard of this band or its music, I am second-generation Mexican-American and Chicana; I hold a Masters and a doctorate in Cultural Studies; I am from the borderlands of Southern California; and I speak fluent Spanish.

This term must be disambiguated, to represent not a band, but the true meaning of the word. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.152.230.77 (talk) 17:24, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

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