Talk:Dallin H. Oaks

Controversies
A new section should be added to this entry regarding controversies over his official public addresses. Specifically, he recently compared the Mormons experiencing backlash from Proposition 8 to the black civil rights movement, which drew a lot of criticism from progressive Mormons, political pundits, black advocacy groups, and civil rights groups. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.148.244 (talk) 04:51, 16 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The desire to include stuff about this could very well be a case of recentism. I would suggest waiting a few weeks or months and then assessing how significant these appear to be in the grand scheme of things. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:48, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It has been covered in the news, both in Salt Lake City and beyond, from coast to coast. So, by WP:WELLKNOWN, it merits brief mention. (BTW, here is a transcript of his speech. --> link)"Recentism in the first sense—established articles that are bloated with event-specific facts at the expense of longstanding content—is usually considered one of Wikipedia's faults. But in many cases, the recentist content can be a valuable preliminary stage in gathering information. Any encyclopedia, even Britannica, goes through rough drafts; new Wikipedia articles are published while in draft and developed/improved in real time, so rapidly developing drafts may appear to be a clutter of news links and half-developed thoughts. Later, as the big picture emerges, the least relevant content ought to be and often is eliminated.---WP:RECENTISM"↜ (‘ Just M &#8202;E  ’ here&#8202;,&#8202;now ) 07:06, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Of note is also covering electroshock conversion therapy practiced on LGBT students as covered in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young_University_LGBT_history and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young_University while Oaks was president and his subsequent denial of the practice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.219.203.205 (talk) 12:52, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
 * (Though this is already covered in those two articles. I'm new to editing on wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt.) 66.219.203.205 (talk) 12:55, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

"Dallin Oaks"
Wikipedia tends to use only first and last names in article titles unless the name given in the media for the subject is a fuller version of hi/r name, almost always (or in some cases to help differentiate people with similar names); so, I have moved this article to the title "Dallin Oaks." For example, compare the case of "Willard Boyle," a scientist who also signs his works with a name that includes his formal, middle initial.↜ (‘ Just M &#8202;E  ’ here&#8202;,&#8202;now ) 07:22, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Where's the guideline that reflects what you have said? I was under the impression from WP:NAME and WP:NCP that we tend to use the most common name that is used, even for people. See the section on middle names and abbreviated names, where it says, "Generally, use the most common format of a name: if that is with a middle name or an abbreviation, make the Wikipedia article name conform to that format." He is known overwhelmingly by the initialed name, and it certainly is the most recognizable name he is known by. Absent a convention that mandates the move, I would like to see this be a formal proposal if it is to be moved. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:51, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Recent headlines and mentions in the secular media say Dallin Oaks  [Edited: Oops, I stand corrected again!] -- but, hmmm...yeah, you're right: as of today, his name sans his middle initial brings up 206,000 Google hits whereas his name with his middle initial brings up 2,160,000 hits.↜ (‘ Just M &#8202;E  ’ here&#8202;,&#8202;now ) 21:05, 18 October 2009 (UTC)↜ (‘ Just M &#8202;E   ’ here&#8202;,&#8202;now ) 21:29, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


 * As a judge, author, and religious leader he's always used his abbreviated name, as far as I have seen. I think most news organizations like AP have style guides for names whereby they often drop "unnecessary" middle initials, but such practices don't always reflect how a person is referred to once you leave the so-called main-stream media world. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:12, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Threadjack: Wow, I just did the Google test and "Lyndon Johnson" won out over "Lyndon B. Johnson" by a large measure. I'd move the article -- but whatever the Wikiproject involved must have some sort of rationale for their naming conventions w/regard to US Presidents, I figure.↜ (‘ Just M &#8202;E  ’ here&#8202;,&#8202;now ) 22:29, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, the "Google test" and the name of the Wiki-BLP align in the case of "Stephen Covey" (810,000 Google hits -- as opposed to 516,000 Google hits for "Stephen R. Covey").↜ (‘ Just M &#8202;E&#8202; ’ here&#8202;,&#8202;now ) 00:57, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * You want to really throw the correspondence out of whack, try doing Gandhi. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:30, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * As I recently learned on the Astral Codex Ten blog the "Google test" is very flawed. The quantity of results shown on the first page is a wild estimate. When I search for "dallin oaks", and go to page 12, I see that there are actually only 111 results. When I search for "dallin h. oaks", and go to page 9, I see that there are actually only 80 results. The Google Books Ngram Viewer is a far more precise tool. This comparison shows that "Dallin H. Oaks" is consistently more common in books than "Dallin Oaks". HankyUSA (talk) 17:04, 13 April 2022 (UTC)


 * My qucik bookshelf search revealed 2 books by "Dallin H. Oaks" and 2 books authored or co-authored by "Stephen R. Covey". I found none by "Dallin Oaks" or "Stephen Covey".  True, four books is not exactly a large sample size, but it is something.  I also found one book written by and 2 more with one of the editors as Richard Lyman Bushman.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:05, 1 March 2012 (UTC)


 * You're good friend 2607:FB91:3F80:4C29:7996:1024:A29B:FE9 (talk) 03:42, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Broken Link
The first link under the Biography section no longer works at the web site to which it refers. 166.20.224.12 (talk) 16:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

"Annual" conference
The conference of the church is referred to in the article as "annual." It is actually semi-annual as noted in the Wikipedia article on the conference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laurelcooper (talk • contribs) 03:51, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It is held semiannually but the name the church gives to the conference held in April is the "Annual General Conference. It calls the one held in October the "Semiannual General Conference". These names don't really make sense, since they are both really small-s semiannual, but that's the way the church chooses to do it. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:41, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * There are things, such as the reading of the statistical report, that are only done at the Annual Conference, so they are not the same.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:57, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Radio engineer
I doubt that Dallin Oaks was a 'radio engineer' as he was working as an announcer I would suspect that he was a broadcast technician or transmitter engineer, an entirely different career option to a radio engineer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.13.25.112 (talk) 15:11, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

List of Books Incomplete
The list of books at the end of the article omits his co-authored work on trusts that I used in law school, even though it is mentioned in the body of the Wiki article: http://www.amazon.com/Cases-Trusts-University-Casebook-Series/dp/1599412357 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.241.240 (talk) 18:39, 5 May 2013 (UTC)


 * A more completed listing of his notable published works can be found on this WorldCat query. I'm adding it here to remind myself to use this to fix the article. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 22:41, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Presidency at BYU
There was actually a book written on Oaks presidency at BYU. I read it once but do not recall it's title. I feel we should add more on that matter.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:25, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

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Publications Section
Hello, everyone! I wanted to open up for discussion the section on publications. I appreciate the good faith additions of missing publications, but many of those were co-written with his wife (some with current wife Kristen and some with his first wife June). For whatever reason, mention of that co-authoring is missing from this article. I would attempt to fix some of those myself, but I am worried that I might mess up the citation template in so doing. How should that be addressed? Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 02:40, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

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Mother's mental health issues
This article mentions Oaks mother Stella having a "nervous breakdown" when she first resumed teaching after Lloyd D. Oaks death. I am not sure the best way to include it in the article. I have so far mainly used the article for covering that Oaks lives in Payson and Vernal as well as Provo while growing up.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:54, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Publications selection recornsidered
I am wondering if it might be justified to either include under publications or include seperately a listing of his significant talks. I would think this could include the title and in some cases a summary of every talk he has given at General Conference. Also some of his talks to what are now refered to as the Young Adult Devotional are very epic setting, especially his talk when he spoke against hanging out, for dating, and for a decrese in both the actual cost and more importantly the assigned social cost of dating. Some of his addresses on religious freedom would also probably bear inclusion hear.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:59, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Good article
I am in the progress of improving this article in the hopes that it can achieve good article or better. I am filling in missing information and finding citations for pieces of information that aren't cited. I am in dire need of citations for the section titled Scholarly research and notable opinions. I would definitely appreciate help from anyone who knows where the information about Oaks' work on the court cases came from. Skyes(BYU) (talk) 21:15, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Age of Oaks's father at death
An anonymous user changed the age of Oaks's father at death from thirty-three to thirty-seven. The RSC source, which I can access online, states that his father was thirty-six. Please mention here if another source is contradictory. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 17:29, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Use of the name of the Church in this article (and all other articles about Church-related subjects)
Hello again, everyone! After seeing the persistent efforts by one editor to insert the term "Mormon" in place of "LDS" in this article (which has been reverted in every instance by different editors, I thought I, as one not yet involved in that matter, would post this subject to clarify the issue. My thoughts on this are as follows: As observed in the reverts back to the term "LDS" demonstrate, that is correct per the entry for the Church and its' members in the Wikipedia Manual of Style. If anyone has a problem with the terminology approved by that MOS, then work should be done to gain consensus to change the MOS, not the terminology employed in the individual articles about subjects related to the Church. So that's the first problem I see with this issue. The second problem (only slightly less significant) is the one editor's insistence that "everyone knows [the Church and its' members] as Mormons." The established guidelines in the MOS section on the Church note that the term Mormonism (and therefore usage of the term "Mormon" to refer to members of the Church) generally refers to any one of the many religious offshoots that trace their origins back to Joseph Smith, and not just the "LDS Church" as it is known here on Wikipedia. But more than that, last year in August, current Church President Russell M. Nelson released updated guidelines specifying the proper usage of the name of the Church. Among the new guidelines was the idea that the terms "Mormon" or "Mormonism" should not be employed in mentions of the Church or its' members. For purposes of the articles about Church-related topics here on Wikipedia, that means, among other things, that the mention of the full and proper name of the Church in the first part of any article covering a Church-related subject (which, in this article, is done in the first sentence in the first paragraph) can be followed by the acceptable abbreviations, but that the term "Mormon" should not be employed in such cases. So by combining those guidelines with the Wikipedia Manual of Style, we arrive at the conclusion that replacing mentions to "the LDS Church" with references to "the Mormon Church" is both inaccurate and inappropriate. And either way, anyone who continues to attempt to make the change from the former term to the latter could be considered in violation of the 3-revert rule, which can in some cases lead to disciplinary measures being necessary. If anyone has any comments or questions on this, including a need for any clarification of anything I have said herein, that's why I wanted to start this subject, and we can dialogue about that here as needed. Thanks again, everyone! Keep up the great work! --Jgstokes (talk) 02:29, 8 February 2019 (UTC)