Talk:Debiopharm

Tags, notability
I see some recent activity on the article around a COI tag at the top. removed the tag, with an edit summary indicating that the disclosure above (re: ) is sufficient to remove the template. But three potentially relevant things are not addressed in that edit summary: Is it OK for a user under a COI to remove such a tag without explicit discussion? I'm not aware of any policy on this, but in my opinion that is not a good approach. I'm curious what others think.
 * Pplc is also in a COI relating to this article
 * It wasn't Wicodric, but myself, who added the "disclosure" above
 * The tag refers to more than merely adding a tag here.

Beyond that, however, I think there is a glaring question of notability for this article. Every source used, with one exception, is self-published; and the one exception only relates to a very minor point -- one of three examples of a drug currently in clinical development.

Is there sufficient independent, reliable sourcing available for this company to meet WP:GNG or WP:CORP? If so, it would be a great start to (1) list some of those sources here on the talk page, and (2) trim back most of the detail in the article until it can be rewritten based on those independent sources. Otherwise, it might be best to delete the article. -Pete (talk) 01:51, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * p.s. For my own full disclosure, I run a business, in which I advise companies on editing when under a COI. My comments here, though, are motivated by my 10+ years as a volunteer Wikipedian. I have no business interest relating to this article. -Pete (talk) 01:53, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes I have been meaning to get over here and work this over but have just not had time yet. A few editors experienced in reviewing conflicted editing have reviewed it which is why I removed the tag that got slapped on it.  I reverted the removal by Pplc because that was starkly inappropriate. Jytdog (talk) 03:29, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sorry about that, I was in a bit of a rush last night - I removed the COI tag because several were slapped in row without exactly pointing out what the issues were (felt a bit like gratuitous finger-pointing and the tag's instruction explicitely indicate this shouldn't be used in such a manner): I've obviously engaged with the contributor who put it (and would appreciate that someone with more experience help me explain why permanent front-page tagging is not a good idea).
 * This being said, I agree that the issue of finding non-primary sources for the present article is very much relevant (and I did leave that one tag). Pplc (talk) 06:40, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hello. I'm starting now to translate the french version of this article, importing as well secondary sources (most of them are in English). Hope this will help ! Manoillon (talk) 13:26, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


 * trimmed all the promotional stuff that was sourced to press releases or was unsourced altogether, brought in independent sources. OK now.   Paid editors, please propose changes here on the talk page in the future, as is described unambiguously in the WP:PAID policy.  Please bring independent sources for content you propose. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 17:10, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Excellent work, . The bulk of the content didn't strike me as promotional per se, but it was not at all supported here by independent sources, and it's rather astonishing to me that a firm so closely connected to Wikipedia would have allowed it to stand, while working on trivial details in the article. Also worth noting, and I hope we can learn more: the press release sources were all introduced (with one exception, I think) by in 2011. Marcel Witt is a single-purpose account that did nothing but work on this article, and it seems quite likely (but not certain) that it was operated in a conflict of interest.  or, can you shed any light on the origins of this article? (Also perhaps worth noting, substantial edits were made in 2013 by , a blocked sockpupped of .) -Pete (talk) 18:27, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Glad you find it ok. I don't see much point in mucking around in the past.  the key thing is that things are straight in the future. :)   But pursue as you will. Jytdog (talk) 18:30, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I should have stated more explicitly: it seems to me there is an important open question about the kind of work Racosch Sàrl does. The past doesn't matter for this article, which is now looking fine to me; and it doesn't matter for Marcel Witt, assuming he doesn't come back to edit. But I believe it does matter, a great deal, to the future evaluation by Wikipedians of other Racosch Sàrl efforts. I would think it is very much in the agency's interest, and in their clients' interest, to demonstrate to the Wikipedia community that they understand and value Wikipedia's norms (beyond its policies). I hope they choose to do so, though of course they are not compelled in any way. -Pete (talk) 18:37, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Pete, I think there's a bit of a learning curve for us because practices are, to be honest, a lot more sophisticated here than on our home frwiki. In a way this is a humbling process for old Wikimedians but I'm happy to comply. As for the present article, we've been approached by Debiopharm a few weeks back only, so I can't really help about past edits - though tbh the username you mention does have a Swiss-German ring to it (which does not help much since Debio is in French-speaking Switzerland). Pplc (talk) 07:05, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * On a personal level, and as a Wikipedian, I appreciate the learning curve. Wikipedians often learn best through trial and error. But on a professional level, that isn't going to work well for you. If you lack basic expertise in something, you shouldn't sell specialist services. Your clients will (probably undeservedly) pay the price in the short term, which will have a long-term impact on your business. -Pete (talk) 18:25, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. It's a long week-end starting here, but I'll make a few suggested edits on this talk page sometime next week and we'll see how that pans out. Pplc (talk) 07:00, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'll be interested to see what you bring. We have an encyclopedia article right now.  That is what our mission is, to create and maintain. Jytdog (talk) 07:45, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Requested edit
Hi there, could you guys please add/create the below "History" section in lieu of the last paragraph? Thanks, Pplc (talk) 06:27, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Debiopharm was founded in 1979 in Martigny by Rolland-Yves Mauvernay. The company's growth model is based on purchasing, testing, and relicensing drugs whose development has been abandoned by their inventors. After some initial work on interferon proteins, Debiopharm acquired the licence for triptorelin from Tulane University’s Andrew Schally in 1982. The medication quickly became commercially successful and is now commonly used to treat hormone-responsive cancers such as prostate cancer or breast cancer, precocious puberty,  estrogen-dependent conditions (such as endometriosis or uterine fibroids), and in assisted reproduction.

In 1989, the rights to oxaliplatin – a chemotherapy drug discovered at Nagoya City University – were licensed to Debiopharm, and developed as a treatment for colorectal cancer. In 1994, it was licensed to Sanofi (formally Sanofi-Aventis at the time). It is now sold in more than 75 countries and has been included in WHO’s list of essential medicines. .

In 2004, Debiopharm moved its headquarters to the centre of Lausanne. The building belongs to the list of cultural properties of national significance and was designed by Swiss architect Jean Tschumi.

Debiopharm has 350 employees and uses 400 external consultants. The group is also one of the largest venture capital companies in Switzerland.


 * There is content that is unsourced and there is content that is promotional. Please write neutrally and please provide a source for each statement. Ideally in English. Ideally independent. The reason the content was removed in the first place is because of violated WP:VERIFY or WP:PROMO or was WP:UNDUE because there wasn't an independent sourcing showing noteworthinesss.   Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 06:42, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi sure, no problem. I've added a couple of references, and all are independent. This being said, feel free to use or  as useful pointers if you feel that there could be further areas of improvement (if any). Just to be clear: if two sentences in a row use the same source, the citation is only indicated at the end of the paragraph as per WP:CITEBUNDLE. Thanks! Pplc (talk) 16:00, 1 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Glad to see increased sourcing., I think you are in good hands with , to the extent they are willing to work on this article. Since I am in a similar business, I prefer not to get into the nuances of your client's coverage; but to anyone else considering this, I do think Jytdog's point about neutral phrasing is worth considering, in addition to the point about sourcing (which you appear to have addressed). -Pete (talk) 20:55, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks for the additional feedback. I've cut and rephrased a little bit. Let me know. Pplc (talk) 06:05, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Requested edit
(short "History" section)

Debiopharm was founded in 1979 in Martigny by Rolland-Yves Mauvernay. The company's growth model is based on purchasing, testing, and relicensing drugs whose development has been abandoned by their inventors. After some initial work on interferon proteins, Debiopharm acquired in 1982 the licence for triptorelin developed at Tulane University by Andrew Schally. The drug is now commonly used to treat hormone-responsive cancers and in assisted reproduction.

In 1989, the rights to oxaliplatin – a chemotherapy drug discovered at Nagoya City University – were licensed to Debiopharm, and developed as a treatment for colorectal cancer. In 1994, it was licensed to Sanofi (formally Sanofi-Aventis at the time) and later included in WHO’s list of essential medicines. .

In 2004, Debiopharm moved its headquarters to the centre of Lausanne. The building belongs to the list of cultural properties of national significance and was designed by Swiss architect Jean Tschumi.

Debiopharm has 350 employees and currently is one of the largest venture capital companies in Switzerland.


 * I am working on this. I am finding sources in english for a bunch of this. This is en-wiki and there is no reason to use French sources when english ones are available.  The content about licensing their first product is not accurate btw, it was licensed from Tulane, not from the inventor directly.  This goes much faster if you provide great sources and everything is accurate.  Interesting company for sure. Jytdog (talk) 09:40, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Uh, considering the gentleman has been indefinitely blocked, what are we supposed to do here? (also, for the record on English-only references, this) Pplc (talk) 08:31, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Have had higher priority things to do, but will try to swing back around soon. You could post a neutral notice at COIN asking for attention from others if you like.  You could also have addressed the inaccuracy and improved the sourcing by now.  Jytdog (talk) 16:46, 30 April 2017 (UTC)