Talk:Declaration of war

Russo-Georgian War
The article says there was a "declaration of war" (from one party to the other) but the linked news article only says "Georgia declares 'state of war' " which is not the same thing at all. 80.29.155.223 (talk) 06:54, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The sourcing is poor and definitely needs improvement. I would support removal, along with a review of the other conflicts in the table to confirm that they conform to this definition. 69.174.144.79 (talk) 19:56, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Has Russia declared war?
An anonymous editor has added the current conflict to Declaration of war. This language is being bandied about even on some news sites, but is it true? Do we have evidence of a formal declaration of war by Putin? --PeterR2 (talk) 11:40, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Not that I have seen. To my knowledge, they declared a peacekeeping operation and the intent to demilitarize Ukraine, but I don't think anything referring to a "state of war" has been issued. Torven (talk) 18:29, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * OK I have reverted those edits on the basis that there is no evidence of a declarion of war in the traditional or legal sense of those words. --PeterR2 (talk) 19:47, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * We need to wait until more thorough reporting emerges that references an actual governmental act by Russia or Ukraine. At least in the sense this article uses it, a declaration of war requires a formal and unequivocal act, under the domestic law of one of the belligerents, that creates a state of war. Military action, whether or not it is an act of aggression, isn't enough. Otherwise I see no reason why the Korean War or Vietnam War shouldn't be included, or the 2003 invasion of Iraq. As a more general note, the sourcing of that table needs to be improved. For example, I question whether the source used for the Russo-Georgian War is sufficient for the statement in this article (and I can't find an indication of it being called a declared war in our article on that war). 69.174.144.79 (talk) 19:54, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I would also point out that the language is not only be bandied by news agencies, but even by actual ambassadors and diplomats in UN meetings. Ukraine's U.N. Ambassador Sergiy Kyslytsya had stated "Because about 48 minutes ago, your president declared war on Ukraine." https://www.npr.org/2022/02/24/1082806285/ukraine-ambassador-russia-security-council
 * It also begs the question what exactly constitutes a proper declaration of war according to the Russian domestic law and it Putin's declaration has not already met their qualifications.
 * http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-04.htm
 * Article 71 states the jurisdiction of the Russian Federation includes: "foreign policy and international relations of the Russian Federation, international treaties and agreements of the Russian Federation, issues of war and peace;"
 * Meanwhile Article 86 states The President of the Russian Federation shall:
 * "govern the foreign policy of the Russian Federation;"
 * Could it very well be that Putin's address does actually constitute a formal declaration of war according to the Russian constitution? That in Russia it is entirely in the power of the President to make "a formal and unequivocal act, under the domestic law"? 71.1.236.127 (talk) 17:51, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

No. While the Russia's armed forces are obviously waging a war, no formal declaration of war has been issued, no matter what some news sources claim. In fact, a declaration of war was deliberately side-stepped by the Kremlin, in euphemistically announcing a "limited military operation". -- Seelefant (talk) 14:01, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

So no more post-1945 list?
I thought the list of declared wars since WWII was an interesting resource. It put into context the reality of the postmodern "declaration of war," the idea that such declarations have too many legal implications to be useful to most developed nations.

Are we, the people of Wikipedia, abandoning the effort to archive formal declarations of war? I understand the concerns about verifiability. But surely rewriting the list completely would be better than just deleting it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:623:8800:8139:268F:44F3:DC4C (talk) 05:58, 26 February 2022 (UTC)


 * The sourcing was so bad that it's probably better to remove it first. There's been no ruling that we can't talk about particular examples. The editor who removed it, though, is probably correct that "lists of examples" are disfavored in articles. If we really wanted we could create an article called List of declared wars after 1945 or something to that effect. But the issue with the list in this article was the sourcing: Many of the examples were sourced to questionable media accounts. There is also a question of what defined a "declared war" within the context of that list; many of the examples were claims by one or the other government that a state of war existed, which in my view doesn't fit the definition of the concept.And another thing, the definitions section in this article is awful. It's sourced to a single law review article less than 20 years old by an author I've never heard of before in international law circles, which is predominantly about what declarations of war mean within the United States Constitution; and a blog post, that discusses the first article (and touches on a couple of others), written by another American law professor (who appears to have little or no scholarship in international law). Surely, surely, there's something more within the European scholarship, perhaps the Hague Academy of International Law's proceedings, and especially showing the development of the concept over the years. Why are we only seeing information from the late 2000s? Why not the League of Nations era? Why not the early UN era? 69.174.144.79 (talk) 17:13, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Israel-Hamas 2023
As of right now there has not been a formal declaration of war by Israel, as spelled out in Basic Law: The Government. Until this changes, adding Israel to the list is misinformation. Not logged in 2 (talk) 17:56, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Cannot confirm myself whether a formal declaration has been made, but according Basic Law: The Government, it is the governments decision to declare war with the Knesset to be notified "as soon as possible" by the Prime Minister, and it defines the government as the Prime Minister and his ministers. So it is within the Prime Minister's power to declare war, then to notify the parliament. In his words "we are at war not an operation" yet we could do with some more concrete evidence of this being formalized beyond his words. 2600:1006:A020:6D1B:B8AC:D704:567E:CA58 (talk) 23:38, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * To add, the full quotation from the Prime Minister is: "“Citizens of Israel, we are at war. Not an operation, not a round [of fighting,] at war!"
 * https://www.timesofisrael.com/we-are-at-war-netanyahu-says-after-hamas-launches-devastating-surprise-attack/
 * And later in the day he says "since the morning Israel has been at war"
 * https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/1710631847879717236
 * Given he has the legal power to declare war on behalf of Israel, what more evidence is necessary to infer that Israel has made a formal declaration of war? 2600:1006:A020:6D1B:B8AC:D704:567E:CA58 (talk) 04:50, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You can read an article in Hebrew here discussing it. What has technically been declared is a "אירוע חירום אזרחי" or Civil Emergency. It has not yet been reported that war has been declared per Section 40 of the Basic Law: The Government. Not logged in 2 (talk) 18:08, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm fully aware that there are headlines saying things like "Israel declares war on Hamas" but it has not in fact formally declared war per Israeli law. Not logged in 2 (talk) 22:07, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Care to elaborate upon which portions of Israeli law have not yet been fulfilled in a formal declaration? The Prime Minister has outwardly spoken to the nation being in a state of war, and according to Israeli law the Prime Minister has the authority to declare war, and that parliament is to be notified.
 * Which other elements have not been fulfilled to constitute a formal declaration of war? 2600:1006:A020:6D1B:B8AC:D704:567E:CA58 (talk) 12:56, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It would seem that the Israeli Prime Minister has now taken the step as outlined by Israeli law to formally declare war.
 * https://x.com/israelipm/status/1710988418585423898?s=46&t=H3koeNAS0TIAR4vtVle6wQ FatCatSwe (talk) 14:12, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Twitter is not a reliable source. That said, there are multiple sources stating that Israel has formally declared war. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Although I am no longer able to capture it on the Internet Archive because the page has already been captured 7 times today, the front page of the Washington Post as of writing reads "Israel formally declares war; combined death toll passes 1,000". Here's an archive of a Washington Post article titled "Israel formally declares war against Hamas as hundreds killed on both sides": https://web.archive.org/web/20231008185504/https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/08/israel-hamas-war-gaza/
 * I don't think it gets any clearer than that.
 * NateNate60 (talk) 18:56, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The WaPo headline notwithstanding, as posted above the Mekomit newspaper in Israel reported that what has been technically declared is a civil emergency. Order signing is reported here at Ynet. This is not to say that there won't be a formal declaration of war per Section 40 of Basic Law: The Government, just that it has not actually happened yet. Not logged in 2 (talk) 19:04, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Not logged in 2 The source you linked to appears to be from yesterday and refers to an emergency declaration. There is an avalanche of reliable secondary sources that are stating quite explicitly that today the Israeli government formally declared war. Some have specifically cited section 40 of the Basic Law. At this point I don't think this is reasonably controvertible. I would ask you to please remove the disputed tag from the entry on the article page. Thank you. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:47, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair enough then, it's been reported enough that looks like it may have passed muster. I'll remove the tag, but let's keep the discussion open in case there are any clarifications later. Not logged in 2 (talk) 20:07, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Chinese Civil War and Korean War removed from post-WW2 list?
Why were these post-WW2 items removed from the list? Some Hecking Nerd (talk) 16:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

"one sovereign state against another"
Do Hamas, SASR and IS count? Or does the wording need to be changed? Smeagol 17 (talk) 15:05, 2 November 2023 (UTC)