Talk:Deep Springs College

Admission of Women
The board of trustees of Deep Springs College just voted to begin admitting women. The trustees have advised that women may join the student body as soon as the summer of 2013, depending upon how the transition goes. The trustees have further advised that details of the transition will be forthcoming over the next several months. The vote was announced privately to alumni on September 18, 2011. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.243.36.45 (talk) 01:47, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Name
would it be appropriate to change the name to simply "Deep Springs" and have a redirect from "Deep Springs College"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.69.222.175 (talk) 23:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Alternate History
I moved the following text to the talk page because I didn't feel it was a proper fit on the main page. It does not read like an encyclopedia article, but rather a memoir, as the source comment says. I gladly invite someone to fix it up, preferably with proper citations, and move it back to the main page! /Jugander 00:04, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

---

Alternate History (as the history I found above is relatively poor, though I will not delete it;  perhaps the extension should be presented in a section entitled "founding").

In the 1870s, L.L. Nunn and Westinghouse were in competition with Thomas Edison to develop a viable technology for distance power transmission in the US. Edison was committed to the use of DC power, retrospectively,  a poor choice,  while Nunn and Westinghouse were committed to the use of AC,  which had significantly less current loss over distance.

In the midst of this intense competition, Edison conducted a literal "dog and pony" show on the East Coast,  subjecting dogs to potential electrocution by AC or DC current in front of gathered crowds. One dog would die-- and Edison would declare the result the danger of AC power. In fact, however,  Edison had switched the wires under the covers,  and the dog had been killed by DC power,  generated by his apparatus.

In this way, Edison incited and inflamed public fear and distrust of the use of AC technology,  and of both Nunn and Westinghouse. On [date,] an angry mob converged on the Westinghouse plant in,  New Jersey,  threatening to burn it to the ground if Nunn's AC lab did not leave. In the face of such pressures, Nunn closed his laboratory.

Over the next months, Nunn sought to relocate his laboratory to another East Coast City, and then Chicago, but given the recent events and public fear of DC technology, received cold responses. Nunn ultimately chose to locate his laboratory in Telluride, Colorado--the American Frontier at that time--for reasons that were as much philosophical and religious as they were practical.

Nunn had found a new location for his lab, but now faced the much greater challenge of assembing a team that could turn the technical ideas of Westinghouse and Tesla into a working technology that could distribute electic power safely and affordably across the United States, with a competitor such as Edison on his heels.

How could he possibly assemble such a dream team, a team capable of building a revolutionary technology that would transform the world? With half the engineers on the East Coast afraid of him, and Edison willing to simply hire the other half to keep them from aiding Nunn?

Nunn decided that in order to build a new technology and world, rather than assemble his team from available men, he would build men: men capable of this task, men capable of running the business empire he envisioned, and men capable of leading the world and preserving the American values Nunn had experienced on the frontier.

Nunn and Westinghouse then visited the headmasters New England's preparatory schools, explaining their project and offering a unique proposition. Rather than a standard engineering project, Nunn proposed, he would establish a school at Telluride based on the school of Socrates. Its men would dedicate their lives to a triad of ideals: continual self-improvement (education), self-governance (democracy),  and practical work (service). They would spend their time at the Telluride Institute (as it was first called) educating themselves in the classics,engaged in the practical work of developing the technology for Alternating Current power transmissions, and in the devolopment of the structures of democratic self-governance and self-discipline necessary to achieve such a goal.

The rest is history. In a few short years, working under the direction of the junior engineers Nunn and Westinghouse could attract to Telluride, Nunn's bright young men learned the classics, disciplined themselves, solved the problems, and developed the technology necessary to transmit electric power across the United States and world. Nunn gained a contract to develop the first major hydroelectric power generation facility at Niagra Falls, New York, and in the decades to come, the NorthEastern power grid, Utah Power & Light, and Pacific Gas & Electric, primarily using men educated at his unique Institute.

By 1910, Nunn was the majority holder in the above concerns, and imagined more, turning his interests to the challenges facing the industry, leadership, and history of the world. In Nunn's view, the East Coast cities had become too soft and "European" to produce the strong leaders and visionaries that the frontier had produced, and the nation had become spiritually lost and apathetic. Telluride, Colo.,  was already no longer the frontier,  and too close to human settlements and the corruption of modern civilization.

Nunn then sought to relocate his Institute away from society, where young men could be separated for a few years from the distractions and corruption of society. In 1916, Nunn found and purchased the Deep Springs Ranch, in an isolated valley in the California high desert. The location was chosen so its young men could, like Jesus and Lincoln, convene with the voice of the desert and of "G-d," and begin to discover themselves and their souls in such isolation.

"The Voice of the Desert" remains among the primary tropes of the College's lore to this day, and in the College library, a room originally designed by Frank Lloyd Wright, a simple brass plaque proclaims a College Motto, "from those to whom much is given, much is expected."

It is rumoured that the United States' OSS and CIA were founded by a Deep Springs graduate, and that the low number of surviving alumni from the 50s a result of this purported fact. It is a matter of public fact that alumnus Bill Vollmann served as an operative in East Asia, and that some of his novels recount the history of that service in allegorical form.

Bill Vollman's "You Bright and Risen Angels," one of the more underappreciated histories of technology, also recounts the history of the development and effects of electrical power transmission in American, in allegorical form. The title "You Bright and Risen Angels" would as well describe the efforts of Seymour Cray, Alan Walker at AutoDesk, and many other technologists, industrialists and entrepreneurs who followed in Nunn's footsteps.

Sources: I have briefly edited the entries on the wireless rural relay line, hydro- and other operations to more accurately reflect their state when I was at DS. The majority of the history above is drawn from the Withrow memoirs, primary materials in the archives of the Deep Springs library,  other primary materials provided to me by Brad Edmonson during his seminar on Deep Springs History,  personal conversation with Brad Edmonson,  materials recounting the history of DS available online (which will have better dates that I recall immediately),  and the published materials of William Vollman.


 * That was an interesting read. I don't know how much of it is completely accurate though....  Jumping  cheese  10:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Corrections
Nunn built no hydroelectric power plants, his innovation was alternating current. I'm a DS alum and I didn't go to any of those schools, and I kind of find that elitism a little offensive. I think the school can stand on its own legs. Its connection to the Ivy leagues comes from a need in students to convince other that DS is prestigious. It is, but we don't need to mention institutions known for subverting meritocracy and inflating grades, to proove it. Plowboylifestyle 02:50, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Er, Tesla invented alternating current. Nunn was just a businessman.

And the inclusion of information about where DSers graduate is completely appropriate for an encyclopedia. 69.112.101.41 00:57, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Should we add contact information for the school, or rely on the official website to provide this?

Selectivity
Lotsofissues has taken issue with the claim that DS is one of the "most selective" colleges in the US. If by "most selective" we mean "has the lowest admissions rate" (i.e., the lowest ratio of admitted students to applicants), then this statement is objective and verifiable. This is the sense in which most people involved with college admissions would understand selectivity. I grant that many readers might understand "most selective" in a less quantifiable sense, as meaning that admitted students are somehow the "cream of the crop." But even by this vaguer standard, the claim that DS is one of the most selective colleges in the US is not controversial, as a Google search can readily confirm. I can readily document that statement being made by the New York Times (search for quote inside article), the Los Angeles Times, and the Christian Science Monitor. Further, Deep Springs, though not a household name, is not obscure. See, for instance:.

I should add that I have no affiliation of any kind with DS, other than having read it described as the most selective college in the US by the Princeton Review back when my older brother was applying for college (ca. 1994), and briefly thinking about applying there myself later on (which I didn't). -- Eb.hoop 08:38, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the documentation of Deep Springs' selectivity. I'm convinced.

Also, I've read profiles of it in the New Yorker, the Smithsonian, and Vanity Fair in which it was called one of the most selective colleges in the country. I think it's a pretty uncontroversial statement supported by objective data.69.112.101.41 00:53, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * See below and please help as you can :) KenThomas (talk) 08:08, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Telephony
It looks like Deep Springs gets telephone service over a couple of hops of 900MHz link from Bishop. Openwire 23:04, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Errata
minor inconsistency - article shows 27 students but then says limit is 26 ...

Based uopn my experience, the estimates for administrators, professors and staff are probably too high. This number probably included a number of spouses, etc, who may be offered courtesy positions, but are generally unpaid. There may also be some double-counting (the President, for example, may potentially be counted in all three categories).

Toll Station #2: AFAIK I used this designation with some difficulty until '90 or '91,  regardless of the 872-2000 number,  and with little problem until I arrived in '89. MCI would accept it with some wrangling; AT&T operators generally were easier;  but MCI rates were lower. Both companies appeared to have difficultly billing station-to-station calls to DSTS#2 until I could essentially connect with no worry of being billed. KenThomas (talk) 08:02, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 05:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Newell Papers
Jack Newell wrote a paper on Deep Springs in a larger book on progressive education called "Maverick Colleges: Fourteen Notable Experiments in American Undergraduate Education."

Both are available on the MIT OpenCourseWare site here.

For anyone curious about DS and its place in a larger movement, reading these might be helpful. I propose adding them to the External Links section.

Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisvnicholson (talk • contribs) 12:16, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page
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 * http://www.saycampuslife.com/2008/06/06/free-tuition-colleges-really-exist/
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Transfer to distinguished colleges and universities
The following words of mine were reverted:

After completing two years at Deep Springs, students may elect to receive an associate's degree, although this rarely happens in practice. Most continue their studies at other universities, frequently distinguished ones ; two-thirds go on to earn a graduate degree, and over half eventually earn a doctorate. Deep Springs graduates usually have no difficulty in gaining admission to high-quality colleges and universities.

The lines underlined in black are what I added.

I thought this was helpful information. I do not know anyone who went to or had any connection with Deep Springs College. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deisenbe (talk • contribs)


 * Do you have a reliable source for this or is it a statement of opinion? We need to be WP:NEUTRAL and not inject our own opinions into articles. K7L (talk) 20:28, 23 November 2014 (UTC)


 * LMGTFY. Please :),  the lack of goodwill,  good faith,  and due diligence here is amazing / annoying. It probably takes 10-15 minutes or less to verify this and contribute to the article, -- but of course,  far less time for a punitive reversion.
 * See previous discussion above from _2006_; geez,  it's already been addressed,  as well!   KenThomas (talk) 08:05, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Bigger, not better
The opening paragraph says that students often continue their studies at "better schools". It seems more accurate to say they continue at "bigger schools" but not necessarily better schools. What metric is being used here? Thanks. --Lbeaumont (talk) 02:20, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

deepsprings.edu .pdf

 * search: site:www.deepsprings.edu/wp-content/uploads/
 * .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 19:44, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
 * What about it? This link does not belong in the article. We link to the school's main page, and this is just a subpage. Meters (talk) 20:25, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
 * See WP:ELMINOFFICIAL Meters (talk) 20:32, 18 July 2022 (UTC)