Talk:Deluxe Paint

Untitled
Can anyone elaborate on the legal case involving Deluxe Paint? Details such as who the case was against and a more involved description of the decision would be great. :-) &mdash;Frecklefoot 15:28, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I just did a quick search of the Lexis legal database. There are no published American court cases that reference "Deluxe Paint." This is not the entire universe of cases, however. Many U.S. cases are unpublished. If the case was decided by the trial court, without an appeal, lack of publication would be unsurprising.

I worked at Electronic Arts, including on Deluxe Paint, in 1988. I don't recall any mention of this litigation. My impression of the ethical views of EA's founders is that the lawsuit, if there was a lawsuit, probably involved a much narrower issue. I find it hard (not impossible, but very hard) to believe that EA's founders ever intended to assert copyright over the creations of mass-market customers.CemKaner (talk) 15:49, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I removed the section describing this legal case since as there's no evidence that this ever happened. Five years to find a citation is probably long enough. Thepreacher (talk) 13:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

At least in the United States, the analogy drawn that makers of hammers and saws could claim copyright on any buildings built with such tools is faulty, as buildings per se are not copyrightable. --Daniel C. Boyer 18:09, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

dpaint
I hope nobody will mind me updating the Deluxe Paint page a bit. I was co-developer of the last few versions; for a bit more on the Deluxe Paint story, some details can be found here: http://home.earthlink.net/~rock_island/files/dpaint.htm

-djh

By all means, the more info the better! I think these articles are especially valuable because the product is no longer available ... looking at the screenshots really brings back memories to me of all the hours I wasted pushing buttons as a kid. Some information on the file-formats would be useful, especially any unique to dpaint. freshgavin TALK    03:30, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

video game art
Deluxe Paint (Amiga) and Deluxe Animation (PC) were basically were probaby 80% of all game artwork were created in the period from about 1987 to 1993. At least in American and European countries. I know Deluxe Paint was used in nearly all Microprose products from 1987 including Pirates (PC), Red Storm Rising (C64), Gunship (PC) and others. Most Virgin Games including Spirit of Excalibur, M.C. Kids, Global Gladiators, Cool Spot. The first Shiny Entertainment games including Earthworm Jim 1 and 2 and literally hundreds if not thousands of others. Greggman 11:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The amiga version was heavily used, I fixed up the reference tat was made that lucasfilm used the PC version hence guy.brush.. this is incorrect since the PC version being was limited to 8.3 so the character would have been called Guybru Threepwood if the artists were using PC's

Colour palette in Functionality section
From the section "Functionality":
 * Unlike other products, for example Adobe Photoshop, DPaint was heavily oriented towards the bitmapped and bitplaned display modes of the Amiga. In other paint applications palette and image data are somewhat divorced. In DPaint they were firmly linked, to the extent that changing the hue of a palette entry automatically changed all pixels of that index in the image.

This is a basic feature of indexed, rather than full RGB, colour palettes, and is in no way specific to DPaint. The Amiga's native chipset only supported indexed colour: up to 32 out of 4096 for OCS/ECS, or up to 256 out of 16777216 for AGA. (Although HAM was a way to emulate full RGB palettes.) The way how all pixels of a specific colour index changed hue when the colour's own hue was changed is a basic feature of the Amiga's chipset and thus could be used (in fact, could hardly be avoided) in all other programs as well. I myself made elaborate graphics demos in AmigaBASIC and C using that feature.
 * Not even specific to the Amiga platform. For example my first infant experimentation with computer animation came with noodling about in Degas Elite on the Atari ST, and discovering the nuances of its "cycle" brush and pallette function. 82.46.180.56 (talk) 20:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Therefore I don't think this deserves a mention in the Deluxe Paint article as it has hardly anything to do with Deluxe Paint. J I P | Talk 11:15, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * You could maybe rewrite it to reflect the underlying reasons, then. Fourohfour 12:29, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think so. I can do it when I find enough time. J I P  | Talk 12:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * You've had almost two years, what happened? -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 19:16, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I did rewrite it back in 2006, see . J I P  | Talk 20:07, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Personal Paint
Does anyone think it would be useful to mention the rivalry with Cloanto's Personal Paint (bundled with the A1200) and comparisons in their approaches. I know I always found Personal Paint easier to work with - but that was just my preference - I always found PP had more features than DP but I might have not been comparing like for like versions. Any comments?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.106.215.167 (talk • contribs).


 * Is there any evidence that there was widespread rivalry, or is it just a personal preference you have (in which case it certainly *doesn't* belong)? IIRC Personal Paint came out pretty late in the day, around the time the final version of Deluxe Paint was released, so it sounds dubious to me. Fourohfour 18:42, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I found it was somewhat easier to use myself - and one or the other were bundled with various Commodore Amiga bundles (in the uk at least). Perhaps rivalry was the wrong word - alternatives might be better.  Eitherway - I thought it might be useful because I know the animation feature in DP came before PP, but PP had more effects than DP in its earlier versions.  I was wondering if this was of interest to the article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.106.223.197 (talk • contribs).


 * Depends if you're comparing like with like. It might be worth mentioning Personal Paint, but unless there are specific things you can say that are backed up with references, I wouldn't add more than that. Fourohfour 15:10, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Blur tool
"DPaint was the first program to have a built-in blur effect, although many have categorized it as a lossy compression technique, rather than a feature." This statement is somewhat confusing, what is it supposed to mean? I assume the blur effect referred to is the smooth brush mode, but I don't see what this has to do with compression. Also "many have categorized it" is a vague statement with no supporting evidence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.121.63.2 (talk • contribs).


 * "Many have categorized it" is indeed a vague (non-)attibution, and an example of weasel words. The whole second part of the sentence sounds very dubious to me, and I have removed it. (The first part remains in place, but I have requested a citation/reference). Fourohfour 15:07, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd chuck the allusion to MPEG compression vs the IFF delta compression in the same basket, it's a completely different thing along the lines of 'record different pixels only' in GIF animation. As this format was also used on the ST in some apps (e.g. Antic's CyberPaint, optionally using the .DLT extension), wasn't exactly too "out there" of an idea, and neither of them really have anything like the power for any kind of DCT/i-p-b frame based decompression let alone encoding --- which is unsuitable for limited-pallette graphics anyway - I'm not sure why it warrants any kind of MPG mention except to make DP seem better, by association, than it already was. 82.46.180.56 (talk) 20:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:DPVAboutBoxWithImage.png
Image:DPVAboutBoxWithImage.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:DPVBoxArt.png
Image:DPVBoxArt.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:DPVScreenFormat.png
Image:DPVScreenFormat.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

final paragraph of Functionality segment
This looks like it was written by someone who really didn't understand much about encyclopaedic writing, and I don't even understand some bits of it. Plus, wasn't the whole IDEA of HAM that it allows 12-bit colour (type) images with the same memory use as 6-bit indexed colour without needing any kind of compression? (And, how else is DP representing the 12-bit image in 6 bits otherwise?) Could someone who better understands the exact subject matter and can more accurately decipher the original writer's intent rejig it to be clearer and more professional looking? 82.46.180.56 (talk) 20:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The whole article needs a rewrite, basically. And that's not going to happen, but it's not a problem - you just have to wait a few more years. Eventually the people who used Deluxe Paint will forget about it, and it will no longer be notable; at that point the article can be cut down to a couple of sentences (e.g. "Deluxe Paint was a bitmap popular paint package for the Commodore Amiga home computer. It was released in five versions, from 1985 to 1994, by Electronic Arts.") Problem solved! -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 19:14, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

False comparison
@‘brushes in Photoshop, which only show an outline.’: You can copy-drag in Photoshop. Plus, pasted images appear in a new layer by default, allowing you to nudge them as you please.

It's perfectly possible, even likely, that DP is easier or better in some areas that it specifically targeted, but you can't blame Photoshop when you yourself are doing it wrong. 82.139.87.36 (talk) 04:22, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Guybrush Threepwood's name (.brush vs .bbm)
I made the change regarding Guybrush Threepwood's name having been based on the file name of "guybrush.bbm" and not the more commonly cited "guy.brush" based on this post in the TellTale Games Forums by Dave Grossman. I have read the information here regarding the reliability of a post in a web forum. However, the Dave Grossman who authored that post is verifiable as the same Dave Grossman who contributed to The Secret of Monkey Island. I just wanted to provide rationale behind my reference for posterity's sake. -Monkey 05 06 (talk) 03:38, 11 November 2009 (UTC) (corrected my link -Monkey 05 06 (talk) 03:39, 11 November 2009 (UTC))


 * The link provided doesn't work. While I can't vouch for the veracity of the actual story (especially as I can't read the source you cited!) I can vouch for the fact that the Amiga version of Deluxe Paint would save sprites with a .brush extension which makes the guy.brush story at least plausible.  I cut my teeth as a hobbyist digital artist on the Amiga version of DPaint 3, 4 and 5.  80.0.71.73 (talk) 21:41, 1 November 2018 (UTC)


 * I've since managed to find what I think is the post you're referring to (https://telltale.com/community/discussion/comment/224468/#Comment_224468) and I'm afraid that Dave Grossman got it wrong. Maybe you were stuck with 8.3 character filenames on MS-DOS back in the day, but on the Amiga filenames could be 32 characters long with any combination of characters.  As I've already states I'm quite familiar with the Amiga version and I can confirm that the default filename for sprites was '.brush'.  If the Amiga version was used to create the sprites (which was probable as the DOS/Win version lagged behind the Amiga version in terms of functionality for a long time) then guy.brush is perfectly legitimate.  Also, 'guybrush.bbm' obviously takes more thought than 'guy.brush'.  I think this change needs to be reverted.  80.0.71.73 (talk) 21:48, 1 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Per Ron Gilbert on Twitter, it really was guybrush.bbm, and they did all the art on MSDOS )https://twitter.com/grumpygamer/status/1519469371021684736): "For the record, Guybrush got his name from a dpaint filename Steve Purcell used called "guybrush.bbm". All of our art was done using MSDOS and it only had 3 letter file extensions. Please bookmark this tweet for your next trivia night."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:7D00:4DFF:B958:50B4:C454:D195 (talk) 00:16, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Ron is not uncommon to all sort of jokes on his twitter account, just to have fun of how seriously his fan take every thing he says. We know for certainly that The Secret of Monkey Island has been developed on PC-DOS and Amiga at the same time. We also know that Deluxe Paint was used for the graphic, as it was the best computer graphic software at the time. Deluxe Paint was a native Amiga software, which didn’t have the 8.3 naming limitation, and even if a porting to PC-DOS was made in 1988 (under the name “Deluxe Paint II for PC”), it’s easy to suppose they were using both, as the files were compatible. Also, the graphic artist Mark Ferrari in an interview for “The Making of Monkey Island 30th Anniversary Documentary” remembers that «there was a pulldown menu in DPaint called brushes, so character sprites were referred to as brushes», and the male protagonist was simply “the guy.brush”, and Steve Purcell suggested the name “Guybrush”. It’s certainly possible that when the decision was made, they named the corresponding file “guybrus.bbm” under PC-DOS.
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgqEneDNQto Claudio.f (talk) 10:00, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Brigitte Neilsen
Murder on the moon?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.20.123.141 (talk) 07:07, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Amiga screenshot
The article has a screenshot of Deluxe Paint from the PC but not from the Amiga. The program was created for the Amiga first and is much more famous on the Amiga than on the PC. I have a legal copy of Deluxe Paint V on my Amiga hard drive, which I have later transferred to my Linux PC and can now access it via E-UAE or FS-UAE. So I could add one myself, but are there any copyright issues involved? J I P &#124; Talk 13:06, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Check the top of the article. You have an Amiga running DP there. But a screen shot of DP V would also be nice.4throck (talk) 22:51, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

the only competitor being Autodesk Animator Pro
"[...]the only competitor being Autodesk Animator Pro"

1) Autodesk Animator Pro was not the /only/ other pixel pusher.

2) Deluxe Paint had no competition.

3) This competition is over. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.194.252.35 (talk) 12:56, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

seascape.iff
If anyone's interested, I used to have a tribute to seascape.iff on the web here that shows the palette swapping feature, and have put it back up on my new github-hosted Jekyll site. I won't add it to the article because of the "original research" and "conflict of interest" policies, but if anyone else wants to they can -- bitplane 03:21, 4 March 2024 (UTC)