Talk:Deng Xiaoping/Archive 2

Untitled
What is the source on the assasination attempts on Deng? Please give a source. Is the source online?

--- I want to add this but I'm not sure if it is true (a Google search seems to support it though...): "On July 22, 1977 Deng Xiaoping was restored to power as the "Gang of Four" are expelled from the Communist Party." --mav ---

I learned in China that the presidents were Mao, Deng, Jiang, and Hu, but Deng is not listed as a leader. Liu Xiaoqi is only viewed as a person that tried to take over power after Mao (a so called treasoner) -- (71.131.194.67 07:34, 17 January 2007 (UTC))

See alternate text for images. Martin 00:12, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * Can't you come up with something better to say? We know he is Chinese. --Jiang

-- I removed the chart that referred to Mao as Deng's predecessor, and to Jiang as Deng's successor, as "Party leader." In the post-Mao period, Deng Xiaoping never held the post of Party "leadership." The chairmanship had been abolished upon the downfall of Hua Guofeng and Deng wielded power informally, having his protégés anointed as Party Secretaries. Deng was the "core" of the "second generation," while first Hu Yaobang, then Zhao Ziyang, and finally Jiang Zemin nominally held the highest Party posts. 172 03:39, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Mao was not educated in France! Colipon 19:51, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Why create a temp? Just add it in! --Jiang 20:46, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)

This should be at least slightly reorganized somehow, though I'm not sure of the best way. His role in the Tiananmen Square protests is too well-known and significant (he played a very major role) to be hidden under a heading entitled "Institutionalization of Procedure". It should have its own heading, with discussion of the power-play between Deng and Zhao Ziyang and other related events. --Delirium 09:39, Mar 8, 2004 (UTC)

Picture
Would anyone with some spare time plz fix the largeness of Deng's picture, perhaps brightness too... Thanks. Colipon 00:39, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Too many factual errors
Who wrote this article? I am reading through is and so far I have already identified a few factual errors. For example, Deng became Secretary General in 1954, not 1957.

Serious editing is needed for this article.

MAJOR EXPANSION NEEDED
Can there be an article directing to Reforms, Opening up to the Outside World? (改革开放) Because that is really important. Colipon 17:14, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Ok, apart from that, which I've already raised on pages needing attention-history, but probably won't get a reply for another six months, Deng's revolutionary achievements are pretty much ignored, as are his experiences during the Cultural revolution. Colipon+(T) 21:57, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

this article sux
it doesnt even say where he was born

yeah that's rich of you to say

 * Do you mind giving reasons why? If it "sux," help it. I'm Caker18 ! I edit Wikipedia sparingly. (talk)  00:05, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

reforms
My own (limited) understanding, based on a stay in Zhejiang province, near Wenzhou, is that the following also had major impacts: Andrius Kulikauskas
 * peasants could rent out their plots, and thus take up businesses instead
 * the accumulated income could be used to build housing, creating whole new towns and cities
 * students could enter college based on merit (standardized tests), rather than through party connections


 * Yes... what's your view on the article? Colipon+(T) 21:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Good or Bad?
Is Deng Xiaoping good or bad?


 * He is a good politician...but first a politician.Sweeper77 02:57, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Good or bad? The real world is not either black or white, let's not get to the same level as that idiot in the whitehouse.  IMHO, Mr. Deng did a great deal of good deeds to China and Chinese people. I was born in 1977 right after the cultural revolution ended. In my 28 years of life, I have witnessed the emergence of a superpower (like it or not), I have witnessed the drastic improvement of standard of life for average Joes and Janes in China, I also have witnessed more and more freedom to Chinese people ( there are a lot to be done for sure). All these started from the time when Mr. Deng took total control of the Communist party.  And from time to time Mr. Deng had to straighten the boat (his speech in 1992 etc) even after his "retirement"... He's hands down, pound for pound (he's a small guy in size), the greatest politician in the later half of the 20th century in China.. ~unsigned comment.


 * Although I consider myself largely pro-Deng, it must be made clear that Deng's economic reforms, furthered by Jiang in the 1990's, had given way to the return to various social evils in China. Money is yet again of top priority. With increased materialism, China has been opened to more corruption and general societal mistrust. The urban-rural wealth gap is widening by the day. Although Deng's One-child policy managed population control, it effectively destroyed the idea of a traditional Chinese family. Many inside China criticize Deng for allowing China to be yet again subject to foreign domination, in that many of China's greatest industries, most notably electronics and automobiles, are dominated by joint-venture foreign brands instead of genuinely Chinese enterprise. Maoists criticise Deng for abolishing class struggle altogether, and accuse Deng of masking China's capitalist development with a socialist spin. Foreign critics suggest Deng's economic reforms were not up to par with set political reforms in the same time period, and often condemn his involvement in Tiananmen 1989. Whoever made that last comment was right in saying there is no real black and white, especially in history. I'm playing devil's advocate to give you the other side of the story. Colipon+(T) 04:48, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Stupid ignorant Chinese brat. So you prefer your ignorant Cultural revolution where hundreds of thousands if not a million INTELLECTUALS died? Or better yet you prefer Great Leap BACKWARD where 20 million Chinese died of hunger. Study more Chinese brat and maybe you'll learn to educate yourself more. Deng is the greatest thing that ever happened to modern China. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.138.162.6 (talk) 01:34, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Reforms and Opening Up
Should be create an article about GaigeKaifang? Colipon+(T) 02:30, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Vice premier?
Did Deng ever hold the office of Vice Premier, or any other similar offices? &mdash; Instantnood 08:29, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

He did. That was his official post when Zhou Enlai was incapacitated. Colipon+(T) 04:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * He was rehabilitated and installed as a Vice Premier in late March 1973. Cripipper 09:27, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Deng and Tibet
The statement about Deng helping the "annexation" of Tibet is POV, as Chinese claims to the place predate Deng by centuries. If someone knows more detail about what Deng did in relation to Tibet, I'd appreciate it if the facts could be added there. Thanks. Ngchen 16:31, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

As an amateur historian I must say that both China and Tibet have valid arguments. The "Communist Takeover of Tibet" is by strict definition, a continuation of rule from the ROC, but was seen as an invasion because the PLA physically marched into Tibet. Check any legitimate Republic of China map today and it will continue to lay claim to Tibet (and Mongolia, in fact). Where Tibet wins the argument is that historically, many suzerains of China have achieved indepedence once a country deems it unecessary to need China's "protection", we see this with Korea and Vietnam. The Communist government simply isn't allowing the Tibetan people the rights to have this choice.

Deng Xiaoping was the leader of the military region in control of Tibet and Sichuan at the time, and therefore was instrumental in the PLA entry into Tibet, as well as gathering support from the Panchen Lama. Colipon+(T) 04:30, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Will someone come and edit Deng's early career, it's in such a degrading state. Colipon+(T) 04:19, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

pov issues
A lot of the phrasing in this article is either pov-laden or not in encyclopedic tone. The trivia section, like all trivia sections on WP, should have what relevant info there is merged into the article, the rest gutted. --Improv 00:03, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Could you specify which parts you'd like to see changed? It might speed up the process. Colipon+(T) 04:35, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Early career
I undid the revision to his age at which he travelled to France. A little bit of math, assuming that his birthday given is correct, shows it to be obviously 15. But when he arrived in France is unclear. The article here lists it as October, but the featured article in Spanish lists it as November. Since I don't know the correct figure, I've tagged it for the time being.Ngchen 22:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

small correction
A couple of words removed from the section on Deng's re-emergence for reasons of logical inconsistency. Radchenk (talk) 07:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Why are his personal life and relationships in the Childhood section?
pretty unorthodox biography in that case, don't you think? my point is not in any way new to this talk page: THIS ARTICLE NEEDS SOME SERIOUS EDITINsorry, cause unlike the others with the same sentiment, i can't back it up--Dennisjiewenliu (talk) 22:56, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Why is his butt-buddy personal relationship with Fred Thompson missing?
Deng's relationship with Thompson is a major factor in why over 100,000 jobs were directly lost from Kentucky, with the help of Thompson, and sent directly to China. When Deng came to the USA in the late 90's, he made a special visit for a PRIVATE dinner at the home of the Thompsons, and right after that almost 30,000 Kentucky jobs suddenly went to China. Just one more example of Thompson's butt-buddy relationship with the Communist Chinese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.41.19.246 (talk) 05:05, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If what you claim is true, then the numbers are definitely not limited to Kentucky alone. Colipon+(T) 16:52, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * How are we supposed to know that is not

1) Fiction 2) Just a coincidence of globalization

Oh, and it would be great if you could leave out unconstructive phrases like "butt-buddy" in your posts so we can have a level-headed discussion in here. Thanks. 134.121.247.116 (talk) 23:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Deng held multiple state/party positions
In the Re-emergence section, it states that "Prior to Mao's death, the only official position he held was that of Executive Vice-Premier of the State Council."

This is not correct. According to Richard Baum's "Burying Mao: Chinese Politics in the Age of Deng Xiaoping" (p. 46), at the Third Plenary Session of the 10th Central Committee (July 1977), "Deng was restored to all FOUR posts from which he had be removed in April 1976: CCP Vice Chairman, MAC Vice Chairman, First Deputy Premier and PLA Chief of Staff."

In terms of when Deng was appointed to these four positions, the same source (p. 29) quotes, "After spending seven years in Cultural Revolution ignominy, Deng Xiaoping was rehabilitated and restored to favor at the Tenth Party Congress in 1973...Deng was elevated to the concurrent posts of vice-chairman of the party's Military Affairs Commission and vice-premier of the State Council. In January 1975 he was also named PLA chief of staff and vice-chairman of the party Central Committee."

Finally, Deng was stripped of all four posts at an April 7th 1976 Politburo meeting following the first Tiananmen Incident. Page 36 of the same source states, "...Central Document No 10...condemned Deng Xiaoping's recent behavior as an "antagonistic contradition," and ordered Deng's immediate dismissal from all official posts inside and outside the party." 122.26.104.177 (talk) 14:10, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:Shenzhen.Statue.Deng Xiaoping.jpg
Image:Shenzhen.Statue.Deng Xiaoping.jpg, with the caption "Statue of Deng at Shenzhen" has a partial picture of some guys' head in with the statue-it looks embarrasing. If someone with an account could fix it, that would be great. 134.121.247.116 (talk) 23:58, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Role in the Tiananmen Square protests
Are the number of citations already enough to remove the disclaimer? I read it and I found the number of citations adequate. Thoughts? If no one objects, I will remove the disclaimer in a week. Thanks, Editor br (talk) 02:49, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I think Deng is not a good man —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.56.11.66 (talk) 23:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Another comment by another person who occasionally edits Wiki: The Legacy section references the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, but not in a substantive way. It seems to me that both the historical and Chinese domestic assessment of the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 is unsettled and that this should be raised in the Legacy section, i.e. "That said, Deng's legacy may be subject to additional scrutiny as it is likely that the historical and Chinese domestic assessment of Tiananmen has yet to be fully undertaken as more definitive information becomes public and as this is subjected to the passage of time."

"Huang Fuping" as pen name
From the article: "Deng penned several articles supporting reforms under the pen name "Huang Fuping" in Shanghai's Liberation Daily newspaper"

However, by doing some google search (both Chinese and English), it is found that "Huang Fuping" was actually the pen name of Ruijin Zhou (周瑞金), the vice editor in chief of Liberation Daily newspaper at that time (possibly with the help of two other people for the articles under this pen name). I'm going to revise it, but feel free to correct me if you have more reliable sources. Took (talk) 05:20, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Eating Habits?
Is it true he used to eat four puppies for breakfast? Or is that a racist Urban Legend? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.159.111.98 (talk) 10:35, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

potential Further Reading, Ezra Vogel

 * Deng Xiaoping and the Transformation of China (2011). 99.19.43.169 (talk) 09:48, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Assassinations
According to the Chinese government, Deng Xiaoping experienced more assassination attempts than any other senior Chinese leader. Information declassified after Hu Jintao came to power, details seven attempts on Deng's life from the 1960s to the 1980s. Most of the cases remain unsolved, and all of them were rooted in Maoist opposition to Deng's reform:


 * On December 23, 1969, a band of militia stormed and machine gunned the compound where Deng Xiaoping had been exiled under house arrest in Jiangxi province by executive order of the Chinese Communist Party's Central Committee. The militia mistakenly attacked the guards' residence instead of Deng’s, and many of them were killed when the guards returned fire. The incident was later blamed on Lin Biao, but in the early 1980s, it was decided that Lin Biao was not involved. The case remains unsolved today.
 * On February 21, 1973, an Ilyushin Il-14 was sent from Beijing to Jiangxi to take Deng Xiaoping back to Beijing to resume his work. On the same day, an urgent order from Beijing instructed Deng to take train instead, with the additional protection of a squad personally led by the chief-of-staff of the local military district. It was reported that this change of plan was conducted by Zhou Enlai to protect Deng, and that the Ilyushin Il-14 Deng originally planned to take exploded above Anhui on its way back. This case was never solved.
 * In September 1975, Deng Xiaoping, Jiang Qing, and Hua Guofeng went to Shanxi, and one evening, when Deng was taking his daily walk, a sniper opened fire on Deng and missed. The would-be assassin was never caught and the case became a cold case file.
 * In April 1976, Deng Xiaoping was once again removed from his post and exiled to a military reception center at Yuquan Mountain in a suburb of Beijing. The evening of his arrival, the Number 5 building, where Deng resided, caught fire and burned. Only the first floor, which contained Deng’s room, burned. Deng, however, had been sent by his guards to study Mao's works at another location, and was not in the building when the fire struck. Deng was immediately moved back in to the city. The case remains unsolved.
 * In July 1976, Deng was instructed to go to Chengde, Hebei, to escape the summer heat. Deng refused to go, claiming that he was scheduled to go to the hospital for his annual physical. When the Japanese car assigned to take him on the trip was returned to ministry of defense, it was discovered that the front axle was about to break, and nobody would have survived the consequent crash. The case is still open today.
 * In March 1980, when Deng Xiaoping went to inspect troops in Jinan military region, one of the local guards opened fire on Deng, shouting, “Down with the capitalist Deng Xiaoping! Guard the Chairman Mao's revolutionary thought! Revenge for the vice-chairman Jiang Qing!" Deng was not harmed and the assassin was quickly subdued by his bodyguard. It was discovered the assassin was an ardent Maoist and it appeared that he acted alone; however, most people believed that somebody else had planned the attack.
 * In February 1988, Deng Xiaoping, Chen Yun, and Yang Shangkun went to Shanghai for the Chinese New Year, and stayed in the Western Suburb Hotel. Four men claiming to be a Maoist Combat Team managed to penetrate the security and had a gunfight with the guards. Three were killed and one was arrested. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.245.207.26 (talk) 08:42, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Why isn't the war with Vietnam mentioned?
The article is missing information, and even the mentioning of the Sino-Vietnamese War --TIAYN (talk) 20:19, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
 * How does it relate to Deng Xiaoping? WhisperToMe (talk) 15:51, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Deng's mother
Page 1 of the second edition of Deng Xiaoping and the Making of Modern China refers to Deng's mother as Dan Shideng. "Dan Shideng" means "Wife of Deng from the Dan family" WhisperToMe (talk) 15:51, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Black cat, white cat
The article currently states:


 * In 1961, at the Guangzhou conference, Deng uttered what is perhaps his most famous quotation: "It doesn't matter whether it's a white cat or a black, I think; a cat that catches mice is a good cat." The earliest reference in Deng's Selected Works is his speech of 7 July 1962 on "How to Restore Agricultural Production". In this speech Deng argued for a pragmatic break with the People's Commune system—boosting peasant incentives by leasing land to them. This was the contract responsibility system that triumphed only 16 years later after the Cultural Revolution. Deng said "Comrade Liu Bocheng often quotes the old Sichuan saying 'It doesn't matter whether it is a white cat or a black cat, a cat that catches mice is a good cat.'" This Deng quote was later remembered in both China and foreign countries as being about black cats and white cats.


 * 1) Why is the quote about cats quoted twice in the same paragraph in two nearly identical versions?
 * 2) If Deng said this in 1961, why does it matter that the first reference to it in his Selected Works was a year later?
 * 3) Why does it say that this quote "was later remembered in both China and foreign countries as being about black cats and white cats"? Surely this quote was memorable as a metaphor for different types of economic policies, not for being literally about different colors of cats. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:31, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Figurehead commentary removed
Hello! I noticed that an editor removed this sentence without an edit summary: Although the president was conceived of as a figurehead of state, actual state power rested in the hands of the premier and the party chief; both offices conceived as held by separate people in order to prevent a cult of personality similar to that of Mao. I personally think it's poorly worded, but excellent information. If we can reword it and/or source it, would anyone object to me adding this back in? LesVegas (talk) 23:36, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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The Tiananmen Square Protests of 1989
A little over two months ago I made this addition to the lead, regarding the historical framework of Deng Xiaping's carreer. My rationale was that the lead only presented positive aspects of its carreer while ommiting reference to the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, in which the role of the PRC is controversial to the Western World.

This addition has been reverted 4 times (here, here, here, and here), always by IP editors. The first three provided no justification while the last raised the issue of consensus. I reverted all these edits, commenting in the last one that any disagreements need reasons.

To conclude, I believe it is benefitial to mention the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 in the lead. Critisism is welcome, but it should be based on reason. Nxavar (talk) 14:14, 25 January 2016 (UTC)


 * (I'm not going to correct spelling errors in the above without permission. But, they're not important.)  See WP:BRD.  Your bold addition has been reverted; it's time to discuss.  I do not consider that argument reasonable; although the lead doesn't come close to meeting WP:LEAD, the connection between Deng and the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 is too complex to be summarized in the lead.  It appears from the text that, if Deng had been a dictator, and his advice followed, the protests would not have occurred.  That statement is too complex for the lead, but a mere mention is hence misleading.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 17:05, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

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