Talk:Duchy of Cleves

a.o.?
What's a.o.? "except for a.o. the cities Gennep, Zevenaar and Huissen which became part of the United Kingdom of the Netherlands." Sleigh 18:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Some villages around these towns, I don't know exactly which ones. It shouldn't be too difficult to find out using old maps. Markussep 16:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I think "a.o." is a German-English abbreviation meaning "among others."

Dates
Some of these look wrong, see Dougweller (talk) 08:02, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Dutch Cleves
I have reverted the claims by User:Joostik who tried to project a Dutch identity on Cleves. I strongly assume that he is the banned User:Rex Germanus reappearing. -- Zz (talk) 20:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not. Do not make such loose assumptions. Do you deny that Dutch was the official language of Cleves until 1815? If you are really interested, please read M.C. van den Toorn, W. Pijnenburg, J.A. van Leuvensteijn en J.M. van der Horst (red.), Geschiedenis van de Nederlandse taal. Amsterdam University Press, Amsterdam 1997. Even now the local Kleverländisch dialect is considered a Dutch dialect, part of South Guelderish. If you want to revert my changes please come with some better arguments rather than German nationalism.


 * I suppose Joost is right about the local dialect, see de:Kleverländisch and the quoted texts in that article. However, I don't think Dutch was the official language of the Duchy until 1815. See for instance this collection of official documents of the Duchy of Cleves and Mark: many of the 15th century documents are in a language close to Dutch (others are closer to standard German), but for instance in the 1650s and in the 1730s all documents are in standard German. Markussep Talk 09:24, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Too many Dietriches?
According to Oxford Reference Online, there was no Arnold II as listed in our article, and our Dietrich IV and Dietrich V were in fact the same person. I will be poking through the individual Count of Cleves article too and looking for more sources before I totally overhaul things here, but I currently plan to fully rewrite our list of counts to match the Oxford reference. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 22:06, 7 February 2024 (UTC)


 * I have found a more detailed yet still perplexing source in the German Dictionary of National Biography, which indicates that all the Dietrichs get numbered differently in different sources. I think we should follow this source as our primary authority. ~ L 🌸  (talk) 04:33, 9 February 2024 (UTC)