Talk:Dutch Mantel

TNA
Is he still with them, and if not what has he done since?
 * According to sources within TNA Wrestling, he still is with them. I edited in the information. Clint 09:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * He is currently a member of TNA's booking committee. TJ Spyke 00:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Name
Whether that guy's ring name is "Dirty" Dutch Mantel, just Dutch Mantel, Texas Dirt, or Uncle Zebekiah seems irrelevant in the face of the fact that the article is called Wayne Cowan while in the article his name is constantly spelled Wayne Keown, without any explanation. There's not even a redirect. Who can enlighten one of the uninitiated? &lt;KF&gt; 20:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * So now some of the Keowns have been turned into Cowans, but not all of them and without any comment. Does that mean that Cowan is the one and only spelling or not? &lt;KF&gt; 22:27, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * On a subscriber-only podcast (http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/11681/ Figure Four Daily, December 17, 2009) he mentioned that his name starts with a 'K', and not with a 'C' like 'Wikipedia' usually has it. Said it's an Irish name. Don't know the exact correct spelling...Smarkflea (talk) 04:48, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

His name is spelled Keown and pronounced (Cowan). I went to school with his daughter in Hendersonville, TN in the 1980's. August 2, 2010 Michelle Jones Braxton

Knockout Booker
He's not just a writer, but he was Knockout booker. 74.183.60.33 (talk) 19:21, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Odd wording...
"Later that year after Lawler lost a loser leave town match against Bill "Superstar" Dundee, Lawler and Mantell finally mended their ways long enough to face Dundee and Buddy Landel in a Falls Don't Count in Memphis' Mid South Coliseum in front of a sold out red hot Memphis crowd. The match went a record 26 falls taking an hour and 15 minutes to accomphish. Match saw Dutch Mantell taking the pin fall over Landel." There are about five things wrong with this sentence. First of all, I'm not sure what type of match it is. Second, I'm not sure how the match happened after Lawler was barred from the area, because it's not specified. I'm also not sure what 26 falls means. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IanOberon (talk • contribs) 02:31, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Answering the second concern first: I don't recall the specifics of Lawler being "reinstated" or whatever the case was. Let's just say that weird things tended to happen a lot in Memphis wrestling.  This particular feud began with Dundee and Landel acting like thugs intent on "taking over".  The highlight of this angle involved them appearing on TV to run off Lance Russell and Dave Brown, hosting the remainder of the program as "The Bill & Buddy Show", complete with handmade sign.
 * As for the match, it was actually a classic "Texas Death Match", and I'm pretty sure was billed as such. This has been confused over the decades due to the WWE's historical revisionist bent.  The old-school WWWF held matches also billed as Texas Death matches, but under entirely different rules.  This type of match is also frequently confused with the latter "Iron Man Match", despite differences in rules.  In a classic Texas Death match, the referee counts a pinfall or records a submission as normal.  However, this does not win the match, nor does it count towards deciding the match as in a 2-of-3 or 3-of-5 falls match (or as points towards winning an Iron Man match).  The gimmick of this match is that once a pinfall or submission is registered to end a fall, there follows a rest period (typically between one and two minutes) before the bell sounds to begin the next fall.  The match continues in this same fashion, only ending when one of the participants is unable to answer the bell for the next fall.  Short answer to the third concern: there were 26 pinfalls or submissions recorded during the course of the match, but none of them meant anything.  Being able to stand up and remain standing when the bell rings for the next fall is what decides this type of match.
 * Dory Funk and Mike DiBiase had a Texas Death match back in the 1960s (in the Amarillo territory, I think) which became so legendary, it put into the fans' minds the notion that these matches were automatically going to be lengthy, grueling and brutal. Since the product has become more about, well, product, the proliferation of 3-minute matches and "family friendly entertainment" has diminished the importance of this type of match. RadioKAOS  –&#32; Talk to me, Billy  11:07, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was not moved. --BDD (talk) 18:02, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Dutch Mantel → Zeb Colter – He's gained much more exposure under this name than he has as Dutch Mantel or Uncle Zebekiah. "Dutch Mantel" was only used while wrestling in various territorial federations, none of which he achieved superstardom in. Uncle Zebekiah was a very short-lived character who is mostly forgotten today. Relisted. BDD (talk) 21:21, 3 September 2013 (UTC) GeicoHen (talk) 22:45, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose Dutch was a huge star in those "various territorial federations". He spent DECADES working under that name.  Zeb has given him about a year worth of national exposure as a minor manager role but does that overshadow the decades spent getting exposure through those territories, as well as internationally, wrestling in Latin American promotions as Dutch?  From my point of view the answer is a clear, no.LM2000 (talk) 18:49, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose. "Dutch Mantel" is clearly much better known, it returns 298 Google Books hits compared to 31 for "Zeb Colter". He's "Dutch Mantel" in these sources:--Cúchullain t/ c 16:51, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose Another one of these "absolutely not" move suggestions. Seriously, he's SO much better known as Dutch Mantel it's ridiculous that someone's even suggesting this.リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen) (talk) 21:07, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Another WP:RECENTISM nomination. oknazevad (talk) 21:11, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose He is Zebb only a year. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 21:32, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose The Dutch is too much. A gimmick based on contemporary American punditry can't be expected to endure. By the way, Zeb Colter is Uncle Zebekiah, not another Wayne Keown character. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:37, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment Speaking of "mostly forgotten today", I just learned there was another Dutch Mantell. Six recorded matches between 1925 and 1933 in two states, so I'm not suggesting this should impact our decision or that he deserves an article. Just a fun fact, and worth noting he was even uglier than the "young" one. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:00, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose - as noted, he had a pretty significant career as Dutch, including his backstage work with TNA and in Puerto Rico. He's also had two former stints in the big leagues, so it's not as though he's only received global exposure as Zeb Colter. McPhail (talk) 18:24, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Earlier Dutch Mantel
Jim Cornette mentions on his podcast an earlier wrestler who used the Dutch Mantel name: about 1 hour 22 min into this: Anyone got any more information? Romomusicfan (talk) 09:52, 25 October 2022 (UTC)