Talk:Edgard Varèse

Zappa
Noticed no mention of Frank Zappa and the influence Varese had on his work. Kemkerj 23:35, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Probably because that has very little to do with Varese, and more with Zappa. (Whom I love to death.)-FeralCats


 * I seem to recall Zappa's favourite quote of Varese being "The present day composer refuses to die" which he might have quoted as said by Varese and which he certainly altered on one of his very first albums to read "The present day Pachuco refuses to die". Not sure if anyone thinks that this is worth including in the article, and if so, then where? In the trivia section, perhaps? Hi There 02:44, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Zappa wrote about Varèse in a semi or fairly scholarly fashion. 75.48.16.182 (talk) 20:02, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

pronunciation?
How the hell do you pronounce this guy's name? The Guilty Undertaker 18:50, 27 July 2006


 * As if written, in English, Edgar Varayza. Or do you need IPA? -- megA 18:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, IPA please. OlYeller 06:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup
The biography needs to be cleaned up a bit and put into sections. Right now it's kind of just one big lump of information. I personally volunteer to do this once I get the time, though anyone else willing should feel free to do so. JesusjonezTalk 22:34, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Indeed, it's a mess. Nothing pre-1915! he was married to Suzanne Bing. See chronologie (in French), and this biography (in German). If needed, I can translate parts of either upon request. Lupo 14:02, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I can't read French or German but I'll see what babelfish can do. JesusjonezTalk 23:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Also, the bit
 * 'After being invalided out of the French Army during World War I, he moved to the United States in December 1915.[...]
 * [edit] Early years in the United States
 * [...] Later that year...'

needs to be corrected. The 'later that year' does not identify the year it refers to (probably 1917?). Perhaps the article's author could amend that? --Ispy67 (talk) 19:25, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Compositions Mentioned in Section "Early Life"
The section mentions two works, "Rhapsodie romane" and "Bourgogne". Is there any particular reason why they are not listed amongst his works at the end of the article? Also, more generally, he seems not to have been a very prolific composer; was he able, throughout his life, to support himself by his composing and other musical endeavours? Hi There 02:44, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Varese and Charlie Parker
I found this in the WP Charlie Parker article: At various times, Parker fused jazz with other musical styles, from classical (seeking to study with Edgard Varèse and Stefan Wolpe) to Latin music (recordings with Machito), blazing paths followed later by others. Hopefully I will get around to finding out a little more about this, as it would be an interesting factlet to have in the article, if true. Hi There 09:43, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Oellette's biography of Varèse contains this: "After the death of Charlie Parker ... the latter's wife came to see Varèse to tell him that her husband had followed Varèse up and down the streets of Greenwich Village for two years without ever daring to speak to him"'' AllyD 10:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Spelling of Edgar[d]
My understanding is that he was born as Edgard, but initially published under Edgar, and around 1942 decided to resume the original spelling Edgard. Hence, both versions appear in the literature. If these are the correct facts, is there a better cite than the ones I've been able to drag up ? -- JackofOz (talk) 04:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Malcolm MacDonald has a useful footnote about this at the outset of his book (cited in the article as ref. 4) Astronomer in Sound, p. xi. He points out that the French version of the name is 'Edgar', same as English, but Varese's birth-certificate shows 'Edgard' and thinks this may be something to do with his Piedmontaise ancestry - a sort of half-way house to the Italian 'Edgardo'. Cenedi (talk) 11:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Composer project review
I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. This article is B-class; more information needs to be given about Varese's relationship with his wife (where and when they met and married, at a minimum), and with Theremin (when and where they met, the nature of their collaboration). My full review is on the comments page; questions and comments should be left here or on my talk page.  Magic ♪piano 21:13, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Nocturnal unfinished?
Wasn't "Nocturnal" unfinished, too, and completed posthumously? -- megA (talk) 15:30, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed so, and completed by Chou Wen-chung I believe. It was much closer to completion than the projects listed in the "Unfinished projects" section though.  --Deskford (talk) 15:43, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think there is a freely available recording of this version somewhere with an extensive comment which mentions this... ah, here it is... Yes, Chou Wen-chung it was. Interesting read, seems there was still some major "overhaul" done for this performance version. -- megA (talk) 15:43, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

D'Indy - the famous acoustician?
Varese did not study acoustics with D'Indy. If anything, he would have studied traditional academic music subjects like counterpoint and harmony. Varèse studied music with D'Indy - not sound. The preoccupation with sound was a result of Varèse's own philosophy and outlook. It's not overstepping the mark to say that his music is a complete reaction to most, if not all of what was taught in conservatoires at the time (and still to this day, in fact!) Knucmo2 (talk) 00:11, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I've just looked at my Grove Dictionary. It says: "He left home for Paris in 1903 and the next year entered the Schola Cantorum, where his teachers were Roussel (composition, counterpoint and fugue), Bordes (pre-classical music), and d'Indy (conducting). Bordes had a decisive influence in turning his attention to early music (always the favoured repertory for the choral groups which he directed from time to time), but Varèse was unable to put up with d'Indy's paternalism, and in 1905 he left the Schola to enrol in Charles-Marie Widor's composition class at the Conservatoire". Knucmo2 (talk) 00:17, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Excellent point. It was certainly misleading, even if one could say that music falls under the broad category of "sound"! I have changed it, always subject to reversion in the unlikely case that the cited source claims otherwise.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 00:19, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Good work Jerome. Knucmo2 (talk) 23:56, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:07, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

"Institute Technique" is neither Italian nor French; what is meant?
The article contains the sentence:

"While living with his father, an engineer, Varèse was pushed to further his scientific understanding at the Institute Technique, a high school in Italy that specialized in teaching mathematics and science."

While the context suggests by that time Varèse lived in Italy, "Institute" is neither an Italian nor a French word, and "Technique" is not an Italian word, but is a valid French word.

Can anyone confirm that the "Istituto tecnico" is what is meant here?Redav (talk) 16:11, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Neither the Fernand Ouellette biography nor Paul Griffiths' Grove article is specific about which institution. However the Edgard_Varèse section seems more specific; the Edgard_Varèse section seems to loop back, both more vague and more detailed than Edgard_Varèse - the article may read better and be more concise if it is merged there? AllyD (talk) 18:22, 20 March 2021 (UTC)