Talk:Education in Pakistan/Archive 1

Dates of the school year
Greetings all. The page Academic term lists countries by the date/extent of the school year. North America, Europe, Asia, and Oceania are almost exclusively represented on the list. This country has not yet been added onto the page. Would anyone be able to pop over, and give it a quick edit? Thanks, samwaltz 22:31, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi samwaltz. I added basic info about Pakistan's school year. Hopefully other editors will be able to add more detailed info about dates the various types of schools follow. Zaindy87 13:08, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Accuracy?
In this month's National Geographic is an account of a family that "lives miles from the nearest public school, which is run so badly tha few kids attend. It's not unusual in Pakistan to hear of public schools that receive no books, no supplies, and no subsidies from the government.  Thousands more are 'ghost schools' that exist only on paper, to line the pockets of phantom teachers and administrators."

I'd say something is missing from this article.--Loodog 03:10, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Looked to this article for info, and found it to be more "official story" than informative. For example, "Between 2000—2004, Pakistanis in the age group 55–64 had a literacy rate of almost 30%, those aged between 45–54 had a literacy rate of nearly 20%, those between 25–34 had a literacy rate of 20%, and those aged 15–24 had a literacy rate of 10%.[6] These data indicate that, with every passing generation, the literacy rate in Pakistan has risen by around 10%. Literacy rates vary regionally, particularly by sex. In tribal areas female literacy is 7.5%." The sunny inference of rising literacy cannot be true! The data clearly suggest exactly the reverse as the youngest age group should be the best educated if literacy were rising with "each passing generation." The data suggest a national tragedy of diminishing educational levels with the last sentence perhaps explaining why. Mothers who can't read, can't very well help their children to read.Un Mundo (talk) 15:46, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Public school (Pakistan)
Propose that the above new stub be merged into this existing article - or at least linkages are needed both ways. PamD (talk) 11:47, 19 March 2010 (UTC
 * And the quote from National Geographic suggests that "public school" in Pakistan is ambiguous, at least. PamD (talk) 11:49, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

I created the the article Public school (Pakistan) from a section in an article called Public school (privately funded) which was largely a content fork of Independent school (UK) with a couple of extra small paragraphs thrown into the mix. I have converted the page Public school (privately funded) into a disambiguation page. But in line with WP:PRESERVE I did not want to throw away the content of the sections which were not part of the WP:content fork of the UK material, so I placed the material into different articles. If in Pakistan public school is ambiguous, what is the term used for independent schools? If that is the term the I suggest that rather than merge the content in here the page is moved to independent school (Pakistan) and let the article grow. However I am not much fussed and providing to where ever the content is moved (and if it is moved here is there a problem with WP:UNDUE?) that a link is provided to the appropriate section of the parent article. -- PBS (talk) 12:38, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

I suggested this and similar merges because the information seemed to be more at home in general articles on the education systems of the countries involved, rather than as near-orphan stubs which were malformed to the extent that the opening sentences didn't even indicate the country of relevance. PamD (talk) 19:00, 19 March 2010 (UTC)


 * That can be fixed. It would talk less time to do that than to merge the contents. Stubs don't have to be perfect and maybe there is information in the articles called  education systems of the countries involved that can be added to the articles to make them less stubby. -- PBS (talk) 21:00, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Language bias and ethnocracy
I think the Language bias and ethnocracy section needs a looking over. I don't think it's accurate, and despite its citations I don't think its a balanced opinion. I'm seeing NPOV violations and the claims don't match the actual entry on Urdu itself. I'm seeing an anti-muhajir bias in the piece. BrotherSulayman (talk) 22:45, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 4 one external links on Education in Pakistan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090912051457/http://www.dawn.com:80/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/13+cabinet+approves+education+policy+2009-za-08 to http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/13+cabinet+approves+education+policy+2009-za-08
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090911084447/http://www.nation.com.pk:80/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Regional/Lahore/06-Sep-2009/Punjab-govt-suggests-200pc-increase-in-edu-budget to http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Regional/Lahore/06-Sep-2009/Punjab-govt-suggests-200pc-increase-in-edu-budget
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110710205237/http://www.eurojournals.com/ejefas_15_13.pdf to http://www.eurojournals.com/ejefas_15_13.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20050227011515/http://pakistantimes.net:80/2004/09/27/kashmir5.htm to http://pakistantimes.net/2004/09/27/kashmir5.htm

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External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Education in Pakistan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Education in Pakistan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101113174308/http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/fbs/statistics/pslm_prov2006-07/2.14a.pdf to http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/fbs/statistics/pslm_prov2006-07/2.14a.pdf
 * Added tag to http://www.dawn.com/2011/02/28/towards-e-learning.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090912051457/http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/13+cabinet+approves+education+policy+2009-za-08 to http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/13+cabinet+approves+education+policy+2009-za-08

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External links modified
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I have just modified 6 external links on Education in Pakistan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111002183659/http://www.moe.gov.pk/Pakistan%20Education%20Statistics%2007-08.pdf to http://www.moe.gov.pk/Pakistan%20Education%20Statistics%2007-08.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100227024357/http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/soe/cihe/newsletter/Number54/p19_Hayward.htm to http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/soe/cihe/newsletter/Number54/p19_Hayward.htm
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/in-paper-magazine/education/education-in-gilgit-and-baltistan-809
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110816015355/http://fata.gov.pk/files/MICS.pdf to http://fata.gov.pk/files/MICS.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304000123/http://www.iscresearch.com/information/isc-news.aspx to http://www.iscresearch.com/information/isc-news.aspx
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International praise
I've removed the following section from the article:

International praise
Since the HEC's reforms have been carried out in 2002, HEC has received praise from the international higher education observers. Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman, founding Chairman of HEC, has received number of prestigious international awards for the remarkable transformation of the higher education sector under his leadership. German academic, Dr. Wolfgang Voelter of Tübingen University in Germany over viewed the performance of HEC under the leadership of Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman and described the reforms in HEC as "A miracle happened." After teaching and visiting in 15 universities of Pakistan, Voelter wrote that the "scenario of education, science and technology in Pakistan has changed dramatically, as never before in the history of the country. The chairperson of the Senate Standing Committee on Education recently announced the first 6 years of HEC under Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman as "Pakistan's golden period in higher education". Recently ThomsonReuters in an independent assessment of Pakistan's progress in international publications has acknowledged that in the last decade there has been a fourfold increase in international publications and a tenfold growth in highly cited papers, statistics that were better than the BRIC countries

American academic Prof. Fred M. Hayward has also praised the reform process undertaken by Pakistan, admitting that "since 2002, a number of extraordinary changes have taken place." Hayward pointed out that "over the last six years almost 4,000 scholars have participated in PhD programs in Pakistan in which more than 600 students have studied in foreign PhD programs." The HEC instituted major upgrades for scientific laboratories, rehabilitating existing educational facilities, expanding the research support, and overseeing the development of one of the best digital libraries in the region. Seeking to meeting the international standard, a quality assurance and accreditation process was also established, of which, ~95% of students sent abroad for training returned, an unusually high result for a developing country in response to improved salaries and working conditions at universities as well as bonding and strict follow-up by the commission, Fulbright, and others."

The HEC's reforms brought about by Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman were also applauded by the United Nations Commission on Science and Technology for Development (UNCSTD) which reported that the "progress made was breath-taking and has put Pakistan ahead of comparable countries in numerous aspects." In limited time, the HEC established and provided free access to scientific literature by high-speed Internet for all universities, the upgrade of research equipment accessible across the country, and the programme of establishing new universities of science and technology, including science parks attracted the foreign investors, prove the efficiency and the long-term benefits for the country enabled. The UNCSTD has closely monitored the development in Pakistan in the past years, coming to the unanimous conclusion that HEC's program initiated under the leadership of Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman is a "best-practice" example for developing countries aiming at building their human resources and establishing an innovative, technology-based economy.". A number of institutions have been named after Prof. Rahman including the “Atta-ur-Rahman Institute of Natural Product Discovery” (RIND) at Malaysia’s largest university, Universiti Teknologi Mara and the Atta-ur-Rahman School of Applied Biosciences at National University of Science & Technology in Islamabad.

Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman has won four international awards for the revolutionary changes in the higher education sector brought in the HEC. The Austrian government conferred its highest civil award (“Grosse Goldene Ehrenzeischen am Bande") in recognition of his eminent contributions. Nature, a leading science journal, has also written a number of editorials and articles about the transformation brought about in Pakistan in the higher education sector under the HEC. In an article entitled "Pakistan Threat to Indian Science" published in a leading daily newspaper Hindustan Times, India, it has been reported that Prof. C. N. R. Rao, Chairman of the Indian Prime Minister's Scientific Advisory Council made a presentation to the Indian Prime Minister at the rapid progress made by Pakistan in the higher education sector under the leadership of Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman, Chairman, Higher Education Commission. It was reported that as result of the reforms brought about in Pakistan " Pakistan may soon join China in giving India serious competition in science". "Science is a lucrative profession in Pakistan. It has tripled the salaries of its scientists in the last few years.". Prof. Atta-ur-Rahman was conferred the highest national Award of the People's Republic of China in September 2014 for his contributions to develop strong linkages between Pakistan and China in various fields of higher education, science and technology.

Dr Javaid Laghari the next Chairman continued the reforms initiated earlier. During his 4-year tenure, the world ranking of universities declined due to budgetary cuts and other problems faced by HEC, although seven Pakistan universities were ranked among the top 250 universities of Asia according to QS World University Rankings 2013. Research output out of Pakistan increased by over 50% within three years, which was the second highest increase worldwide. According to Scimago world scientific database, if Pakistan continues at the same pace, its ranking will increase from 43 to 27 globally by 2017.

Though there's definitely substance in many of the claims there, the overall intent of the text seems to be to heap praise onto the higher education sector, and especially on the former chairman of the HEC. I don't see how this can even approach WP:NPOV unless it's rewritten from scratch. – Uanfala (talk) 19:23, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

After 18th Amendment in Constitution of Pakistan Education is provincial subject
So the starting sentence of this article Education in Pakistan is overseen by the Federal Ministry of Education and the provincial governments, whereas the federal government mostly assists in curriculum development, accreditation and in the financing of research and development. needs to be updated and rewritten. JogiAsad (talk) 13:07, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

"Achievements" section
what should be done about the Education_in_Pakistan section? Such a section is probably not appropriate but I'd rather WP:PRESERVE this somewhere than get rid of it. I notice that while we have List of Pakistani scientists we don't have List of Pakistani economists or List of Pakistani mathematicians etc. Would it be appropriate for me to mention this over at those articles?VR talk 18:34, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 * You're right. The section is not required. Moreover, it would become exhaustingly long if we were to start listing all noteworthy scientists or academics. I have a positive opinion as far as having lists for economists, mathematicians etc. is concerned. Cheers,  Mar4d  ( talk ) 15:48, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Great, I'll get started on that, . If I want to cut and paste content from that section into other articles or drafts, is there a special procedure I have to follow? Does WP:CUTPASTE apply?VR talk 17:02, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
 * If you're copying reasonably large amounts of content, then yes (a note in the edit summary would also be good). However, in this case, I don't think there's much to be copied over. The lists should ideally just have the blue links to the relevant people. People can surely read the details on their main biography articles.  Mar4d  ( talk ) 17:20, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Houseofgirls.

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Chemistry
All chapter 182.190.217.24 (talk) 16:45, 15 April 2022 (UTC)