Talk:Electric motorcycles and scooters

3-wheeled_motorcycles
I think this section needs to be moved to electric trikes or electric motorised thricycle, as the section mostly describes vehicles according to a design concept, not the propulsion itself. It allready contains some vehicles that are not electrical, and more can be found trough the link to http://enclosedscooter.com/category/production/ (Peraves Monotracer, Peugeot 3GEO, Trev3, Peugeot+3, BMW CLEVER, ... Some other vehicles are available at feet forward motorcycle

Also, in my view, a 3-wheeled vehicle isn't a scooter/motorcycle at all; these are limited to 2 wheels, so the sections needs to be placed at a different headline/text ie "Alternatives"

KVDP (talk) 10:24, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Your "view" counts for nothing here, as we work from WP:RS, not from WP:POV. Nor is there any robust source for your claim that 3-wheeled scooters, albeit rare, are defined as being other than scooters. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:51, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with Andy. --Biker Biker (talk) 23:09, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with KVDP that this section should be moved elsewhere. Merriam-Webster defines "motorcycle" as "an automotive vehicle with two in-line wheels." Its origin dates back to 1894 as a combination of the words "motor" and "bicycle."  "Motorcycle".  Even Wikipedia defines a motorcycle as a "single-track, engine-powered,[1] two-wheeled[2] motor vehicle." (See the entry for reference to "reliable sources.") WP:RS Additionally, I agree with Chrisrustsheffield and Ebikeguy, below, on two points.  First, the Twike is gasoline-powered and does not belong in this article about electric motorcycles.  Second, some deference should be given to the Wikipedia editors who created the Myers Motors NmG page, included the info box for "automobile," and included it in the class of "battery electric microcar" with a "coupe" bodystyle. Look at it.  Other than it being an "automotive [self-powered] vehicle," there is nothing about it that would suggest it belongs in the category of "motorcycles."  Finally, reference to "the Carver one" in the final sentence of this section should be removed because it is not electric, and because the title of that page is "Carver (automobile)". Hbmallin (talk) 21:04, 11 March 2011 (UTC)


 * This section does not appear to be about electric vehicles at all. I feel it should be removed. It might be useful elsewhere but it appears to need quite a lot of tidying up.Chrisrustsheffield (talk) 22:16, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with Chrisrustsheffield on all points. This section does not seem to fit in this article.  Ebikeguy (talk) 22:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

The problem is that legally, almost all trikes are classified as motorcycles. However, I think there is enough content and interest (5 Support, 2 Oppose) that a split is warranted. Electric trike works as a title for me. Since there has been no discussion for over a month I will close and proceed. Twike belongs in the Tricycle article; will move as well. Ng.j (talk) 17:18, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Removing three wheeled vehicles from this article is a good idea. However, it's a bit early to set up a new and poorly sourced article. Probably better to move the material to a subsection of Tricycle first, build it up there, and then split out when ready.  SilkTork  *YES! 17:54, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * See below: the issue recurred with ZEV's three wheel electric scooter (also the defunct Vectrix offered one). Properly here, until the advent of a separate classification and Wikipedia article.  ElijahBosley  (talk &#9758;)  22:26, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

New Article Name is not Accurate. Please change it back.
This article is about motorcycles and scooters with two or three wheels. It is NOT about two-wheeled electric bicycles, which have a page of their own. I did not see consensus achieved in favor of the new name. Did I miss it? I strongly urge that the article name be changed back to "Electric motorcycles and scooters." Ebikeguy (talk) 13:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd also support restoration under the previous name. Any past discussion of a rename seemed to end in not renaming it, and as you say, the new name is inaccurate. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:23, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Agree, the new title is horrible. Change was made without discussion and no consensus was sought. Ng.j (talk) 15:38, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I thought this article was about electric two wheel vehicles, and there has been concern expressed about the current name as it didn't accurately reflect what the article is about. Isn't it about electric two wheel vehicles?  SilkTork  *YES! 16:19, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

"Electric two wheeled vehicles" would be too broad, as it would bring together motorcycles, scooters, kick scooters, mini-bikes, electric dirtbikes, etc. It may function as a short catch-all, but you would want to maintain separate articles either way. It kind of goes against WP:COMMONNAME for a title anyway. Ng.j (talk) 16:55, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Requested move back

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Electric Scooters for Kids — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:36D4:E300:A9FA:6233:C93C:1FFF (talk) 21:25, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

The result of the move request was: Done  SilkTork  *YES! 16:41, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Electric two-wheel vehicle → Electric motorcycles and scooters — Revert previous page move made against consensus Ng.j (talk) 15:44, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Support: For reasons stated in previous section. Ebikeguy (talk) 15:47, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Support, Speedy if possible. There was no discussion for the current title, and the result of previous discussions was to keep the name. Ng.j (talk) 15:52, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Moving it is easy, but we need to hear from the moving admin first. tedder (talk) 15:57, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I've already posted a notification of this discussion on his/her talk page. Ebikeguy (talk) 16:04, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Support, as section above. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:56, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Support "Electric motorcycles and scooters" is plain English. "Electric two-wheel vehicles" somehow manages to be both pedantic and grammatically incorrect. --Dbratland (talk) 15:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.


 * ''Actually technology should be moving foward or in a circle at least instead of going backwards, i find electric scooter technology heavily effective. For instance, i can lock my scooter if someone tries to steal it from the inside.  They wont be able to use the accelerator and wont know wat connector to use.  I can also use my scooter via the extra headlight i installed.  It points up.  All vehicles should point their headlights up.  I noticed this is a major engineering flaw.  My scooter recharges itself via controller magnets and it lasts longer via giant magnets on the motor.  It has giant cables for positive so it doesnt disconnect or worst yet burn.  I can tape it or mask it with layers upon layers of insulation to save battery life.  It has small battery wires.  Its totally effective, this is how all scooters should be made.--Asfd666 (talk) 02:59, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Article focus and name
What is this article about? And what should it be called? Discussions about the article's purpose and name appear to have been in place since November 2006, and there is ongoing uncertainty. Is it about an electric version of a motorcycle and an electric version of a scooter? In which case it would need to be split, as an electric motorcycle is not quite the same as an electric scooter. And where do the other versions of electric two wheeled vehicles fit in? Such as Electric kick scooter? And why are three wheeled vehicles discussed here rather than in Tricycle?  SilkTork  *YES! 16:50, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I think the proper solution is to add so much good content that we will have to split off "Electric Scooters" into its own article. Electric kick scooters are very different, as are Electric bicycles. Ng.j (talk) 16:58, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I think one approach would be to have an article which deals with electric two wheel vehicles. Within that article you would deal with the history and development of electric two wheel vehicles, and then sections which deal in detail with different types of electric two wheel vehicles - such as electric motorbikes, electric scooters, etc. And when these sections are large enough they can be split out as appropriate, per WP:Summary style. Having one article which can deal with the generic material such as history, development, power source, distinctions between electric power v combustion engine, would save a lot of duplication.  SilkTork  *YES! 17:12, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I thought about that, but an overview article would in itself involve a lot of duplication. Perhaps the History of electric motorcycles and scooters article could be used for that purpose, with a discussion there? History of electric two-wheeled vehicles? Doesn't exactly flow off the tongue.

I would say that Electric bicycle and Electric motorcycle have enough content for their own article already, we just need more scooter information. Ng.j (talk) 18:16, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The article is about electric two-wheelers which are real transportation that can use real public roads approximately on par with cars, i.e. motorcycles and scooters. As opposed to toy scooters, mini-bikes, and electric-assist bicycles which fill a fundamentally different role. Splitting off scooters is a bad idea, since the step-through frame design is a trivial distinction, since scooters function as small motorcycles with only cosmetic differences. --Dbratland (talk) 18:38, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Personally I think the title is fine. My goal is really to see a bunch of good content added, I was just suggesting a possible solution for the splitists. Ng.j (talk) 21:54, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Why not add a column to show if each of these vehicles has a kinetic energy recuperation system. That would be useful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.113.37.7 (talk) 13:44, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

NY state law
The page http://dmv.ny.gov/recreation.htm#motor does not mention electric motorcycles in any way. If you think this regulation applies to electric motorcycles, please explain. Thanks! --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:59, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Furthermore, if you read Vectrix you will see that NYC Police have evaluated the electric scooter for use as a patrol vehicle. They wouldn't be doing that if it were illegal. --Biker Biker (talk) 23:01, 3 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Possibly this is due to confusion with electric mobility scooters? That's all I can guess. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:06, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

I miss read the title

scooters mopeds are legal if licensed and registered ether electric or gas powers

electric assisted bicycles e bikes can not be registered or licensed fyi police will enforce the laws Emgreene (talk) 00:24, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * What you say is true, but does not apply to the vehicles discussed in this article, which do not fall under the legal definition of electric bicycles. See Electric bicycle and Electric bicycle laws for the relevant articles.  Cheers,  Ebikeguy (talk) 00:31, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Advantages & Disadvantages section removed
The Advantages and Disadvantages section was removed (see this edit) because I believe it to be nothing more than a collection of unsourced point-of-view opinions rather than hard encyclopaedic facts. Sure a couple of entries had references, but that doesn't add up to a balanced for/against section. Perhaps we can use the talk page to discuss, with suitable references, a decent set to add to the article. --Biker Biker (talk) 23:05, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Yamaha?
I saw a news article indicating Yamaha was bringing an electric scooter to market in 2012. But that was limited to the Japanese market, and there have been no further reports. If they are marketing an electric scooter Yamaha should join BMW and Honda in the lede, but does anyone know of articles confirming they are still, in 2014, marketing or planning to market an electric scooter outside Japan? ElijahBosley (talk &#9758;)  20:34, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Yamaha sells electric scooter in UK. Please see Electric Commuter Yamaha Motor UK. And also in India, maybe Yamaha is selling elctric FZ. Please see Yamaha FZ Electric 40 BHP by Tork Motorcycle - Indian Cars Bikes Kitanozaka (talk) 04:26, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Chinese status should be mentiond
I have many information of China that has the most electric scooters in the world. Please cooperate to make Chinese information. Nowadays, I know that 30 million electric scooters are made in China for one year. Kitanozaka (talk) 02:53, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the suggestion. Wikipedia requires a source, such as a news article or a book. If you are aware of a source I can footnote confirming China has the most electric scooters in the world, I would be pleased to add this useful information to the article. ElijahBosley  (talk &#9758;)  11:39, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

I found a source I can quote, stating how many electric scooters are sold in various markets and confirming China is by far the biggest. I will add that as the first sentence in the sales section. ElijahBosley (talk &#9758;)  13:15, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Deleting model comparison?
I deleted the model comparison section because it goes so quickly obsolete. A quick Google search found a great many new models out that would require expanding the table. We don't have model comparisons for automobile or bicycle; for that matter not for motorcycle either. Why do we need it for electric motorcycles and scooters? I realize a lot of work has gone into this section by previous editors and if they wish to continue that work, fine, reinstate the section. But it does require monitoring and updating almost monthly. ElijahBosley (talk &#9758;)  18:08, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Too many quotes in Electric vs. gasoline machines section?
The section has too many quotes from various reviewers. Are all these quotes absolutely necessary? If not, can we consider replacing them with paraphasings? -- Ken fyre (talk) 16:34, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Sure, give it a try. I got rid of two just by eliminating quotation marks. The Damon Lavrink quote I left because he is cited by name both there and in the next 'graph, and because the experiment of going six months on nothing but an electric cycle is a significant comparison test the reader of this section may like to look into further--but if you would like to condense and paraphrase that one too, be my guest. Less is more. ElijahBosley  (talk &#9758;)  23:32, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Gas vs electric are you kidding me? Hey everyone im an electric scooooter let me change my battery every 6 months..lol no competition, buddy.  Electrics running on 2 name it TWO power sources not 3.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.174.252.86 (talk) 21:30, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Unfair competition anyways, I think that to make it fair, you may need to add specs on certain devices. For instance, amperage specs are needed...because to be fair. Electric mopeds/bikes watever put out .83 amps at most on their motor. They probably do like 27 amps. They don't up the amperage of the motor itself, because they don't know how and they are not there yet. A standard lead acid battery with amp draw up'd to 4.5 amps will recharge a small scooter at 2 hrs not 6 or 8 using a conventional wall charger. Source? I own one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.30.97 (talk) 18:14, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Noteworthy design ?
I was wondering whether we should mention the Dan Hanebrink Holeshot Golf Bike in the article ?

109.130.200.50 (talk) 11:29, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I will take no position on notability, or whether this comes a little close to an ad for a specific product--but whatever the outcome on such questions--wouldn't it fit better in Electric bicycle? ElijahBosley  (talk &#9758;)  19:30, 11 September 2014 (UTC)


 * An editor has now included an electric tricycle startup manufacturer. In view of the heated discussion at the top of this page, I left it in for now. But really I think those tricycles belong in the electric bicycle section, not in an article on scooters. ElijahBosley (talk &#9758;)  20:00, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Inappropriate mention of the TV show "Toy Stories"
"An edition[38] of the BBC television programme James May's Toy Stories on 3 January 2014 featured a one-off electric motorcycle built almost entirely of Meccano being driven around the 37¾ miles (60.7 km) Isle of Man TT Circuit.[39] The run took about 24 hours."

This sounds like a TV-show gimmick and completely non-noteworthy in the overall context of electric motorcycles. Can we remove it please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.81.229.47 (talk) 10:57, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Conflict of interest?
An editor deleted a citation on the grounds that it is "conflict of interest/ spam" here The citation supports the sentence "anything over 130 miles is considered an exceptionally long range." How much range is "long range" is a matter of opinion, so it would seem it does need a citation. I would be grateful if the editor could say why this is a conflict of interest. ElijahBosley (talk &#9758;)  14:03, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

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Change of information under Range
The section on range currently has a quote about the ZEV Electric LRC10 introduced quite a few years ago. That model was replaced by the LRC15 with much more range and speed. Suggest update the LRC 10 information.

From a January 2017 article in New Atlas. http://newatlas.com/zev-lrc-t15-electric-tilting-three-wheeler/47432/

"ZEV's LRC-15 remains the e-scoot distance and speed champion, banging out an impressive 185 miles (298 km) at a constant 55 miles per hour (88 km/h) on a 12.4 kilowatt-hour battery – or about a solid 50 percent more than the Zero S or SR gets out of a slightly larger battery at the same constant speed. Aerodynamics are most definitely a thing. But then, consider BMW's C-Evolution, more or less the only "mainstream" e-scoot since the death of Vectrix, with about the same 12.5 kilowatt-hours. It's more powerful and sporty, but only claims 100 miles' worth of max range. The ZEV smashes it." The ZEV speed is up to 93 mph

Maniacspursuit (talk) 04:41, 5 February 2017 (UTC)


 * A very complimentary article. Agreed you should update info here with what it says about range (citing the article). I'd do it but am pressed for time. The article is based entirely on what ZEV says.  We still --STILL-- need ZEV to invite an outside organization like Consumer Reports to test their scooters. That would be a powerful marketing tool, even if outside test results shave their range claims down a tad. ElijahBosley  (talk &#9758;)  16:02, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Should the tilting/leaning electric 3 wheel bikes be included in this secion
ZEV Electric has released a new version of its LRC15 in a tilting 3 wheel motor scooter. the three-wheeler will be called the LRC-T15 – as it offers a 15-kilowatt continuous output. Using the same 12.5 kWh battery pack as the LRC-15, its added weight and less aerodynamic shape bring the range down to around 125 miles (201 km). Charging takes 4.5 hours on 110 volt sockets, or 3.5 on a 220.

http://newatlas.com/zev-lrc-t15-electric-tilting-three-wheeler/47432/ Article date Jan 18, 2017

Maniacspursuit (talk) 04:47, 5 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I'd say yes include it here --at least until somebody invents a new category, and starts a new wikipage, for three wheeled scooters. Triscooters? ElijahBosley (talk &#9758;)  16:05, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Road legality and riders licensing
Most of this article deals with the technological aspects of these vehicles. Can someone with knowledge of the subject add something about road legality of these vehicles and the licensing of riders around the world, I've heard that one of the reasons for the lack of uptake in say Europe compared to China are that the licensing and safety requirements are equal to that of normal motorcycles, so that there is pretty much no cost or convenience benefit over conventional machines.--KTo288 (talk) 17:53, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * In Germany a scooter-sharing is allowed as long as you have a car of bike license.Nikolay Komarov (talk) 06:47, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Interwiki links and splitting
In many languages, there are separate articles regarding powerful e-bikes and small e-scooters. You might want to split it in English too. The wikidata element where interwiki links are stored is full. E.g. for the German language there is an article about powerful e-bikes and the article regarding e-scooters (Elektromotorroller) is nowhere to be pasted. Thus this element has to be split too.Nikolay Komarov (talk) 06:47, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

list updates
Brammo, an american producer with 2 models on the market https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brammo And many many many others scooters, you can find producers on this list: https://www.insella.it/listino_moto/ricerca--MarcoMEXflorio (talk) 00:22, 16 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Brammo was bought out by Cummins. Is the brand still active?
 * Insella: An English reference would be better but Italian is also fine. A specific reference for each brand that doesn't change is required (Insella will change their list as brands come and go). Anyone can edit the article - please feel free to add brands.  Stepho  talk 02:37, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

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Terminology

 * A smaller vehicle, typically just a deck to stand on with two (or three) wheels and a handlebar on a vertical stem is also termed a scooter; such scooters if unpowered are termed kick scooters, and e-scooters if battery powered.

Nope—at least not now. Most companies call their e-scooters "kick scooters" to differentiate them from seated scooters. This may be because they physically resemble manual scooters (which are propelled by "kicking"); or because most of them require the rider to "kick" off manually and gain a certain speed before the motor can be used (a safety feature), differentiating them from so-called "zero start" scooters. For example, here's Niu advertising their "electric kick scooters": https://shop.niu.com/collections/kqi3-electric-scooter – AndyFielding (talk) 08:25, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

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