Talk:Electronic body music

Industrial with pop structured lyrics and a chorus
That's what EBM is. Bands like Front 242, early Skinny Puppy, and early Ministry exhibit this. While later bands like VNV Nation, Covenant, and Apoptygma Berzerk continued the tradition. EBM is pure industrial music (synths, heavy beat, no guitars) with lyrics set in a pop structure... it's a fairly basic genre that encompasses a lot.... the definitions on this page actually overcomplicate it.--Dr who1975 (talk) 04:25, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * VNV Nation and APB are simple Pop/Rock groups with a Techno/Trance influence. There is no Industrial music sound. And don't forget the Post-punk influence. DAF, Liaisons Dangereuses, Portion Control and other bands produced not really Industrial music, but Post-punk and Electropunk. --Ada Kataki (talk) 16:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll bite... why are VNV Nation and (early) APB not industrial groups? I take it you've listened to all their music to come to this conclusion.
 * Mind you... this is a page for EBM groups... not pure industrial groups... however please answer my first question for the sake of discussion. Please also explain to me what makes Front 242 and Covenant different?--Dr who1975 (talk) 06:04, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I see you've been blocked for 48 hours... please answer my question when you get back.--Dr who1975 (talk) 06:09, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have listened to all their music and can safely say they are not EBM-bands. APB might have one or two songs that are fairly EBM-inspired, but not more than that. I hope I don't have to answer why Front 242 and Covenant belong in different genres? Just listen to any of their songs. It doesn't mean that Covenant or APB are bad, they're just not in the same genre. --Dalen (talk) 22:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

APB was a synthpop group. I remember, there was an EBM-like track called Electronic Warfare on the maxi Deep Red. And the collection Apocalyptic Manifesto includes a track called Lidelsens Mening, which has an strong Industrial music influence. But most of their tracks are Synthpop/Rock/Futurepop. Listen to the EBM samples. Do you really think that bands such as Nitzer, Krupps, Force Dimension, Pouppee Fabrikk or DRP sound like Covenant or VNV Nation? I agree that the Covenant debut Dreams of a Cryotank has a strong EBM influence, but most of their stuff is strongly influenced by the techno music of the 1990s (listen to Figurehead). In fact, their second album Sequencer is a pre-Futurepop album. --Ada Kataki (talk) 17:26, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * tommi stumpff - requiem
 * tommi stumpff - attrapez-la vivante
 * and one - over there
 * force dimension - ritual dance movements
 * drp - washing your cock
 * paranoid - strain
 * paranoid - trapped
 * aircrash bureau - machine


 * oomph! - ich bin du
 * pankow - das wodkachaos
 * pankow - have a nice day
 * attrition - scenario
 * attrition - right hand man
 * titan - men of science
 * vomito negro - feel the heat (original version)
 * vomito negro - fire burns

There are also other songs that are typical for EBM. It doesn't sounds to me like Futurepop. EBM has a more rough Post-punk/Post-industrial atmosphere than a trancey Synthpop sound. --Ada Kataki (talk) 01:19, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Metropolist records describes APB as an EBM group... at least in their early years. --Dr who1975 (talk) 17:33, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ummmh. Actually, i don't understand why people feel the urge to add Electro-Industrial and Future Pop groups to the EBM article. --Ada Kataki (talk) 21:11, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't quite nuderstand this urge either, but it seems like there is a big urge to describe synthpop/futurepop bands as EBM. Perhaps because labels think the bands will look 'cooler' then. So I propose we include something about this and such bands but have it in a separate section and list of bands so it's not confused with real EBM. I know several that several bands in that list wouldn't want to be compared to VNV Nation :) --Dalen (talk) 22:38, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ada, the track samples don't work. --WaddleDuck (talk) 08:41, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

You could only differentiate between "real" and "not real" EBM if a source said so. Even then the article would have to go into how conflicting defdinitions of the genre exist. A good compromise would be a differentiation based on bands from the mid to late 90s that were described as part of an "eveolving version of EBM". This would fit with the sources.--Dr who1975 (talk) 04:32, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

This article is not bad at all but unfortunatelly I miss some lines about the revival of EBM nowadays. It only contains a few lines about notable djs (like DJ Hell) which are influenced by Oldschool EBM, but there are no discussion about the Anhalt bands which are bringing elements of Oldschool EBM back nowadays. Tyske Ludder and Spetsnaz were mentioned, but a complete article regarding EBM should deal with German and Swedish scene incluind bands like Sequenz-e, ELITE!, Container 90, Jäger 90, Sturm Cafe, Kommando XY, SPARK!, Menticide, Judge: Dred; Frontal, Darkmen and A.D.A.C 8286. If labels like Wax Trax! and Zoth Ommog have been mentioned as the most influential labels for Oldschool EBM in the past (and they were indeed), Electric Tremor Dessau cannot be forgot as a label which are leading this EBM revival with those Anhalt bands. I am sure that the mix of Punk and Oi! music elements (a non-electronic music influence) to Oldschool EBM had nothing to do with this lack in the article.

Another point is missing: I really think that an article regarding EBM should deal with the controversy imagens of political stuff in EBM scene. I am one of those guys who believe that EBM has nothing to do with political discussion per se and at all, but it is a fact that people use to spread rumors about some EBM bands being nazi/fascists ou commies (specially because of some lyrics and symbols adopted by Oldschool bands and some dresscode used by Anhalt newcomers, which is pretty similar to Oi!/Skinhead deal). A clarification of this wrong idea which can mislead newcomers is needed.

A last point which is missing: maybe it could be interesting mention that EBM is actually a kind of Industrial music indeed as F242 guys always say. Actually, Industrial Dance, as the term Industrial used to be commonly applied to those artists envolved with Industrial Records and Thrrobbing Gristle fashion during 70's. In fact, Industrial Dance is a synonimus for Oldschool EBM. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TechnologicalError (talk • contribs) 16:31, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * EBM is not a kind of Industrial music. It's a fusion of Post-industrial developments and Electropunk. Nitzer Ebb and DAF are more Punk than Industrial music. --Chontamenti (talk) 16:38, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree :EBM is not a kind of Industrial Music. I really wish the terms would be separated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.73.39 (talk) 02:00, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Electropunk
and what's with all the talk of electropunk... this is a term that was invented in 1999 to retroactively describe some bands... how can you say you're trying to be a purist about the original roots of EBM and use this term which was invented after the fact... thatl;s a huge contradiction. The text of this page is largely uncited and it needs a rewrite.--Dr who1975 (talk) 04:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Since the 80s bands such as Portion Control and Batz Without Flesh used the term "electropunk". its not a new creation. Moreover, Funker Vogt, APB and other bands produce Electro-Industrial, Hellektro and Futurepop, not EBM. --Ada Kataki (talk) 08:08, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Electropunk just redirects to synthpunk, which appears to be the more documented term. If someone feels strongly about the existence of electropunk as distinct from synthpunk, they should write an article about it and provide sources. I'm going to change the references to "electropunk" in the article to synthpunk in order to establish consistency. Aryder779 (talk) 15:18, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Reverts
To the IP editor who has been removing the "Futurepop" information from this article: I have initiated a discussion at Talk:Futurepop regarding your edits. Please feel free to respond there, as I will not be watching this space. Also, please try to maintain civility in your edit summaries. Your recent summaries, with their rants and vulgarities, are inappropriate to Wikipedia and do not encourage other editors to take your contributions seriously. --IllaZilla (talk) 19:50, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Other editor are, of course, also invited to contribute to the linked discussion, as it pertains to the content of this article as well. --IllaZilla (talk) 23:01, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

For those engaged in the current edit war, please come here and discuss your differences so that this madness can stop. Spitfire19 (Talk) 22:29, 18 May 2010 (UTC)


 * It has been discussed hundred times: Futurepop is not EBM. It's a new genre with other stylistic characteristics! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.244.71.74 (talk • contribs) 22:51, 18 May 2010

Just an observation, but the IP involved in this edit war seems to bear quite a bit of similarity to banned user User:Breathtaker --Gamecat42 (talk) 19:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the IP addresses go back to the same ISP, and he didn't deny it when I called him Breathtaker on my talk page.DarkProdigy (talk) 00:47, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Which means the changes can be reverted when protection expires per WP:BAN. --Gamecat42 (talk) 18:40, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


 * You can change your ass. Futurepop is not related to EBM. It's a mixture between Electropop and Trance music.


 * Chontamenti, why are you still doing this? The edit warring, the profanity, the personal attacks. Weren't you banned? This sort of behavior doesn't sway people to your cause. If anything it makes people go out of their way to oppose you, even if you did ever have a valid point.Vampider (talk) 19:45, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly... He is banned; nothing he says has any relevance here. --Gamecat42 (talk) 16:28, 10 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Do what you want. I'll remove it, everytime.

Suggestions for improvement
There have been some arguments about this article, and that always happens when something is poorly sourced.

All the 'allmusic' stuff isn't good.

I've found several books which have good info and are available online:

If information from those sources could be added, it would certainly help.

Also, it's worth looking at some better examples of this type of article;


 * Alternative rock
 * Christian metal
 * Grindcore


 * They might provide a framework for this article. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  01:45, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

"Electro Disco Terrorist Music"...
...has only 20 search engine results. It's obviously cooked up by some dubious journalist guy who smoked too much weed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.96.206.249 (talk) 10:09, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Ahh, very convincing buddy, I’ll take your word for it over that of one of Europe's best electronic music magazines. Nice. gentlecollapse6 (talk) 20:02, 18 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Nobody cares about a shitty magazine. 1.) It's a weak source. 2.) It's not an established genre term. 3.) It wasn't used by F242. Your source cannot prove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.96.205.254 (talk) 11:54, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Vandalism
Hi just a heads up... an anonymous user operating from various IP addresses in Germany (such as 178.11.254.97 and 188.96.206.249) continues to revert sourced information on this page with no attempt to provide citations to justify their actions. gentlecollapse6 (talk) 15:52, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

"EBM is unrelated to Goth"
Really..? Is that a position the vast majority of the population would take if they sampled some EBM music and saw how people that listen to EBM tend to dress, saw where they tend to hang out, and so on? This leads to the question: Who is the authority on what EBM is and whether it's related to the word "goth"? Is it the majority of the human population? Is it the people that regularly listen to EBM music? Is it the people that care the most? Or is it simply the people that edit this article the most? Who is the authority? Who gets to make that arbitrary call? I just think it's funny that someone would hold the position that EBM is completely unrelated to goth. But that's what these sort of micro-categorizations, like "EBM" lead to, anyway: people looking at extremely subtle differences between things. Pulseczar (talk) 15:05, 29 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Historically and academically, EBM isn't connected to Goth. Goth is an outgrowth of Post-Punk music, guitar-oriented with influences of Glam Rock and Psychedelic Rock (Sisters of Mercy, Siouxsie & the Banshees etc.). The music of the Goths is Goth Rock.
 * EBM roots in Post-Industrial music and Synth-Punk/NDW (New German Wave). DAF, Die Krupps, Liaisons Dangereuses, Front 242 and many other early 1980s progenitors of EBM didn't care about the Goth movement. The people around the EBM movement (concerts etc.) were a blend between Industrialheads, Synthpoppers, Punks and Skinheads. Pogo was a wide-spread dancing style. But i never saw a Goth dancing pogo while listening to EBM. Did you? Sure, there were some Goths, too. But EBM (or what Goth people call "EBM") wasn't a preferred genre until the mid-1990s (when EBM was more or less a dead genre). I guess, the nearest connection between '80s Goths and the fans of EBM was Depeche Mode. --188.108.221.217 (talk) 23:26, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * bro what EBM is definitely goth buster brown some examples are Cabaret Voltaire, Die Form, front 242 and more industrial and ebm was a massive gothic movement in the 80s and also german new wave was definitely a gothic genre have you ever listened to Grauzone, Malaria!, abwärts, einstrüzende neubauten??? There is more than one gothic music movement just because they moved and developed at a different time doesn't mean they aren't the same. also I don't know what you're yapping about I've only ever seen gothic people jamming to EBM maybe you're thinking of EDM that's not goth but EBM is definitely goth just because darkwave is more of a modern goth movement doesn't make it invalid because it's not the same movement that was post punk shock rock psychedelic prevalent do your research man 😭😭😭😭😭 174.102.147.136 (talk) 15:47, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * like these groups almost exclusively played in goth clubs in the 80s so idk what you're on 😭😭 174.102.147.136 (talk) 15:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

rivethead
Rivethead has nothing to do with ebm, it's an industrial term. Can we please remove that?


 * No, Rivethead has not much to do with Industrial. A rivethead listens to EBM and sequencer-based Post-Industrial stuff such as F242, Skinny Puppy and rock-related stuff such as Ministry etc.

Krautrock and Berlin School, not Disco!
Again, Patrick Codenys clearly stated that Front 242 had nothing to do with Disco music. They never described their music as Disco! There is no real connection between EBM and Disco...

I Feel Love by Giorgio Moroder and Donna Summer is the only track that has ever been mentioned in music literature. This track is based on a Krautrock bassline that was programmed by Robert Wedel of Popol Vuh. At the time, Moroder was a big fan of Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream and related stuff. He tried to blend the electronic ingredients of Krautrock / Berlin School with his regular Disco stuff. That's the entire story. And that's the only reason why it sounds so futuristic.

Gabi Delgado-Lopez of DAF is the only guy within the EBM context who really fell in love with this track. The Disco influence is completely overrated and almost nonexistent in EBM. Important is the Krautrock / Berlin School influence, represented by its repetitive bass sequences. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.3.103.178 (talk) 01:12, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

"Typical EBM rhythms alternate between the 4/4 beats of disco and more abrasive rock-inspired backbeats"
This is so plain stupid, i wanna puke. You people obviously don't know how Disco music sounds like. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.71.3.231 (talk) 23:25, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

apparent secondhand typo from reference 18
WSKU is (apparently) in Little Falls, New York. WKSU is in Kent, Ohio. I couldn't tell which station it really was-- whether they copied the call letters correctly or the location correctly. The archive.org link immediately redirects to the root directory of that website, as does every other interview_NNN.php link on the interviews page. Then, simply pulling the file such as with wget or view-source:https://web.archive.org/web/20070212045644/http://kraftwerk.technopop.com.br/interview_108.php allows one to read the interview. There is just one reference to Kent, Ohio and repeated indications of "WSKU" as the one asking questions, but at the end, Ralf Hütter said: "Yes, thank you for talking to you and say hello and "auf wieder sehen" to all your people in Ohio." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.25.87.21 (talk) 10:48, 22 December 2022 (UTC)